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01-16-2013, 03:06 PM
  #251
Estimated_Prophet
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Gorges carried PK's defensive side of the game like a baby in his arms. If anyone was sheltered it was PK. You seem to be conveniently forgetting Kaberle was coming off a terrible situation in Carolina and changed teams three times in the span of a year. Most players don't learn the system of a new team that quickly.

Bruins tried to sign him, that is the point. If you want to argue semantics go ahead.
Kaberle received sheltered minutes and Subban played some of the toughest minutes in the entire league..........that is a fact. Generally d-men who face the opponents top lines are paired with another good defender......not sure what kind of point you are trying to make with Gorges.

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01-16-2013, 03:07 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Gorges carried PK's defensive side of the game like a baby in his arms. If anyone was sheltered it was PK. You seem to be conveniently forgetting Kaberle was coming off a terrible situation in Carolina and changed teams three times in the span of a year. Most players don't learn the system of a new team that quickly.

Bruins tried to sign him, that is the point. If you want to argue semantics go ahead.


really? I think you didn't pay attention enough during games...no one carried PK's defense last year.

Man...a guy just wants to get paid and people jump all over him

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01-16-2013, 03:12 PM
  #253
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really? I think you didn't pay attention enough during games...no one carried PK's defense last year.

Man...a guy just wants to get paid and people jump all over him
It borders on criminal how under-rated Gorges play is. The guy is arguably our best defender and he gets no respect while PK blasts shots wide all day long and is treated like the next Pronger.

His "wanting to get paid" should not get in the way of this team succeeding, yet it is. He should take a cue from the other core players like Pacioretty and Price.

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01-16-2013, 03:14 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
It borders on criminal how under-rated Gorges play is. The guy is arguably our best defender and he gets no respect while PK blasts shots wide all day long and is treated like the next Pronger.

His "wanting to get paid" should not get in the way of this team succeeding, yet it is. He should take a cue from the other core players like Pacioretty and Price.
Gorges is an above average defender and works harder than anyone else on the blueline, but he benefited from playing with Subban as much as the other way around. The two of them when together actually do a great job of splitting the duties, and just as Gorges enables Subban to play with more risk, Subban allows Gorges to play conservatively.

A team where Gorges is your star defenseman is not a team going very far. This is not underrating Gorges, he's everything you want from a reliable defensive defenseman, but he doesn't "carry" anyone.

And allegedly Bergevin has refused to give Subban long term contracts he did to Pacioretty and Price, despite Subban proving more than Pacioretty has.

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01-16-2013, 03:16 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
It borders on criminal how under-rated Gorges play is. The guy is arguably our best defender and he gets no respect while PK blasts shots wide all day long and is treated like the next Pronger.

His "wanting to get paid" should not get in the way of this team succeeding, yet it is. He should take a cue from the other core players like Pacioretty and Price.
Josh Gorges is a wonderful defensive defensman...who is under-rating him?

He AND PK formed one of the best shutdown duos last year and BOTH were equally as involved in makiing that one of the best pairs, even on a putrid team.

As for the rest of your post...Pacioretty & Price signed deals they thought compensated them fairly.

PK has not signed a deal because he doesn't feel management has met his valuation...why do you need to make it personal or negative?

Its not your money, you're not running the team...why do you need to make a contract negotiation anything more than what it is...a contract negotiation.

Are fans in Dallas this upset about Jaime Benn holding out too? You'd think that PK at someone's babies or something.

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01-16-2013, 03:17 PM
  #256
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Unfortunately, it looks like discussing PK in this thread is as close as he'll come to training camp.

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01-16-2013, 03:19 PM
  #257
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He was never a top 15 d-man. He has always been terrible in his own end and was overrated due to the Toronto media and fanbase.

To be a top 15 d-man you have to be a legitimate #1, which he never was.....
Err...the fanbase and media lambasted Kaberle all the time. They were always calling for his head, yet year in and year out, he was their #1D from 1999 to 2011. No matter how soft he may have been on his own end, you don't get 67, 58pts on a horrible team with no goalie, no decent F or D's other than Sundin and McCabe and not be considered an elite D. Though he was soft on his end, he more than made up for it with his offense. The dude averaged 45pts per year while being their #1 D and no, you can't compare him with the likes of MAB's as Kaberle played at a totally different level. Yes they both were good on offense and bad on Defense but that is pretty much where the comparison dies. Kaberle was a very good player in his prime while on a hopelessly crappy team (same with Sundin). At the top of his game, he was IMO a top 15 D. Never a top 20 D defensively but overall impact? Top 15 D.

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01-16-2013, 03:20 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Gorges carried PK's defensive side of the game like a baby in his arms. If anyone was sheltered it was PK. You seem to be conveniently forgetting Kaberle was coming off a terrible situation in Carolina and changed teams three times in the span of a year. Most players don't learn the system of a new team that quickly.

Bruins tried to sign him, that is the point. If you want to argue semantics go ahead.
Then we must've made quite a bargain when we signed Gorges, the only defenseman in the league who can cover the entire width of the ice...

I'm sorry but you don't play 25-27 minutes a game while having to rely that heavily on your defensive partner. I'm not taking anything away from Gorges, he's a beast defensively and a true warrior, but he didn't "carry" PK.

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01-16-2013, 03:44 PM
  #259
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Then we must've made quite a bargain when we signed Gorges, the only defenseman in the league who can cover the entire width of the ice...

I'm sorry but you don't play 25-27 minutes a game while having to rely that heavily on your defensive partner. I'm not taking anything away from Gorges, he's a beast defensively and a true warrior, but he didn't "carry" PK.
The classic case of fans over-analyzing a situation to try to come out as one of the few who see things differently and look like genius. PK was always decent defensively, the only thing questioned was his (sometimes) poor decisions with joining the rush at the wrong time with no one spotting him, and trying to make a play that wasn't there in the O-zone. Last year he was actually really good in his own zone. Off course, you'll will look bad once in a while when playing 25-27 minutes a game versus the other team top line.

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01-16-2013, 03:44 PM
  #260
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Unfortunately, it looks like discussing PK in this thread is as close as he'll come to training camp.
He'll sign on Thursday night & come to camp just in the nick of time.

It's a favourite tactic of that doucheberg Meehan.

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01-16-2013, 03:48 PM
  #261
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Keep the subban discussion to the subban thread. It should go without saying.

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01-16-2013, 03:51 PM
  #262
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I really don't like that he isn't around the team to fraternize. Would have been great for locker room chemistry.

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01-16-2013, 03:53 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Gorges is an above average defender and works harder than anyone else on the blueline, but he benefited from playing with Subban as much as the other way around. The two of them when together actually do a great job of splitting the duties, and just as Gorges enables Subban to play with more risk, Subban allows Gorges to play conservatively.

A team where Gorges is your star defenseman is not a team going very far. This is not underrating Gorges, he's everything you want from a reliable defensive defenseman, but he doesn't "carry" anyone.

And allegedly Bergevin has refused to give Subban long term contracts he did to Pacioretty and Price, despite Subban proving more than Pacioretty has.
Gorges led the league in blocked shots with 250 (over 50 more than the next best). He was +17 on one of the worst teams in the league, without an outrageous amount of PP time.

He is a stud.

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01-16-2013, 04:05 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Lafontaine View Post
Gorges led the league in blocked shots with 250 (over 50 more than the next best). He was +17 on one of the worst teams in the league, without an outrageous amount of PP time.

He is a stud.
PP time contributes to your minus if you get scored on, but not to your plus if you score, so not getting PP time is an advantage here.

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01-16-2013, 04:05 PM
  #265
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I was hoping this thread would be updates about the camp.

who played well, what were the lines, funny moments, how the guys look?

Die Hard Habs fans like me wish we could be there in Brossard, so we are counting on you guys, our Habs brothers to give us the 411.

I heard Pleky was back today, how did he look? Did he play with Gally? How did Eller look playing with Bourque and Armstrong I would think?

Any information would be appreciated... thanks!!
So true, was coming here for the same infos and instead I see babies bickering about PK vs Kaberle... pretty annoying.

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01-16-2013, 04:13 PM
  #266
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Unfortunately, it looks like discussing PK in this thread is as close as he'll come to training camp.
this is the fist refreshing comment Ive seen in the last 3 or 4 pages in this thread... for the love of god people stop arguing about kaberle and pk! this thread is about training camp.. not whether kaberle this or pk that.. i mean, sure, banter back an forth a little bit but then agree to disagree and get back to the topic at hand. I hate when threads get bogged down with 2 or 3 people arguing about something that is way off topic for pages and pages.

now thats off my chest.. i think the fact that gally is on the second line still with plecks being back ..and on the first pp unit is a huge sign that their intention is to keep him up for the year.. any thoughts?

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01-16-2013, 04:17 PM
  #267
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So true, was coming here for the same infos and instead I see babies bickering about PK vs Kaberle... pretty annoying.
I totally concur with this dude and the other dude..could we get even some updates if at all possible?

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01-16-2013, 04:18 PM
  #268
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this is the fist refreshing comment Ive seen in the last 3 or 4 pages in this thread... for the love of god people stop arguing about kaberle! this thread is about training camp.. not whether kaberle this or that.. i mean, sure, banter back an forth a little bit but then agree to disagree and get back to the topic at hand. I hate when threads get bogged down with 2 or 3 people areguing about something that is way off topic for pages and pages.

now thats off my chest.. i think the fact that gally is on the second line still with plecks being back ..and on the first pp unit is a huge sign that their intention is to keep him up for the year.. any thoughts?
I don't necessarily think so. I think 2nd line and PP time is what they want to get out if him if they intend on keeping him up. They are most likely just watching how he performs in that role. Then they can make a judgement call. I think the 5 game try out is what will fully determine whether or not he's up for the year. But for what it's worth I'm willing to bet he sticks. Sounds like he's definitely not out of place so far.

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01-16-2013, 04:21 PM
  #269
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I totally concur with this dude and the other dude..could we get even some updates if at all possible?
The media isn't giving us much updates from today, so unless people were there, don't expect much...

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01-16-2013, 04:26 PM
  #270
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I don't necessarily think so. I think 2nd line and PP time is what they want to get out if him if they intend on keeping him up. They are most likely just watching how he performs in that role. Then they can make a judgement call. I think the 5 game try out is what will fully determine whether or not he's up for the year. But for what it's worth I'm willing to bet he sticks. Sounds like he's definitely not out of place so far.
I really hope you're right. I'm just dying to see him up here and with such a shortened camp and our first game coming up in 3 days, why would they waste ANY time at all dinking around with someone in that position in drills and practice if they don't see him here in 3 days..Even the pessimist in me can't see a reason not to at the very least, give him 5 games. If he doesn't look out of place, he'll stick. What excites me most is that for once, finally, it looks like our coach may be giving a prospect the chance to succeed and not throw him on the 4th line playing a role he is not accustomed to. Sink or swim its the right call to have him playing with talent.It also finally gives Plekanec some one to play with so it can kill two birds so to speak.

Now if we only had one more to spread around I'd love to see Eller get a real chance too...

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01-16-2013, 04:26 PM
  #271
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I don't necessarily think so. I think 2nd line and PP time is what they want to get out if him if they intend on keeping him up. They are most likely just watching how he performs in that role. Then they can make a judgement call. I think the 5 game try out is what will fully determine whether or not he's up for the year. But for what it's worth I'm willing to bet he sticks. Sounds like he's definitely not out of place so far.
ya thats very true.. we wont really get an idea until we see how he fairs in the 5 game try out.. but i'm excited to watch him in some real NHL action.. I'm willing to bet he sticks as well ...lets go gally!

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01-16-2013, 04:40 PM
  #272
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Poor lars having to have moen and bourque on his wings now but he'll get his shot eventually once bergevin deals with DD and pleks

but the great news is, galchenyuk STILL on the 2nd line practicing with pleks now

i rly love that therrien is doing that and not just playing him with prust and white or something

GIVE him the chance to succeed and SEE what happens, dont give him NO chance to succeed and see if a miracle happens

i beleive therrien being in mtl the last 2 years and watching nothing but the habs surrounded by analysts (allbeit even RDS people..) has really helped him see that a young kid playing on the 4th line with plugs isnt the ideal way to get a potential offensive dynamo going

so im real pleased with therrien with this regard, u can tell having a bunch of kids in pittsburgh helps the decision too

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01-16-2013, 04:56 PM
  #273
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Poor lars having to have moen and bourque on his wings now but he'll get his shot eventually once bergevin deals with DD and pleks

but the great news is, galchenyuk STILL on the 2nd line practicing with pleks now

i rly love that therrien is doing that and not just playing him with prust and white or something

GIVE him the chance to succeed and SEE what happens, dont give him NO chance to succeed and see if a miracle happens

i beleive therrien being in mtl the last 2 years and watching nothing but the habs surrounded by analysts (allbeit even RDS people..) has really helped him see that a young kid playing on the 4th line with plugs isnt the ideal way to get a potential offensive dynamo going

so im real pleased with therrien with this regard, u can tell having a bunch of kids in pittsburgh helps the decision too
Does anyone know what Therrien thinks of Eller?

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01-16-2013, 05:00 PM
  #274
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Does anyone know what Therrien thinks of Eller?
Montreal head coach Michel Therrien believes Eller's at a stage of his career where he needs to take another step in his development, the Hockey Inside Out blog reports. "That's the way I see it. He's got potential. He's a young player still developing. But there's a time in your career you want the player? to bring his game to another level and this is what I'm expecting from him," said Therrien

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01-16-2013, 05:02 PM
  #275
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Montreal head coach Michel Therrien believes Eller's at a stage of his career where he needs to take another step in his development, the Hockey Inside Out blog reports. "That's the way I see it. He's got potential. He's a young player still developing. But there's a time in your career you want the player? to bring his game to another level and this is what I'm expecting from him," said Therrien
Thanks...will be interesting to see if Therrien keeps him in a defensive role the way Martin and Cunneyworth did or if he experiments with him beyond that.

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