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Subban and Habs are far apart in agreement(contract)

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Old
01-16-2013, 04:25 PM
  #126
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Tyler Myers signed with Buffalo for 7 years 38.5 mil which comes out to 5.5/year for 7 years..Subban is probably looking for similar deal.

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01-16-2013, 04:51 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
even if the Flyers did buy-out Brière - his salary would still count against the cap.

http://www.capgeek.com/flyers/

unless they can trade some salary, i don't see it happening.

as for Detroit... they do have the space for this year; but they have a lot of players to resign for next year. and with the cap space going down to $64.3M - it would make for a tight fit.

http://www.capgeek.com/redwings/

i doubt Detroit would pull the trigger - but i mos def don't see how Philly could.
Compliance/amnesty buyouts do not count against the cap at all. Catch up!

Still not going to happen. Philly needs a #1 Dman, not Subban.

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01-16-2013, 04:53 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Mifroid View Post
I agree he's got huge potential, and he had a lot of responsabilities last year. He has skills, and he might become an excellent d-man. However, I don't think it's fair to say he is there yet. And there's no reason why he should get even close to 6M$ from what I've seen of him in the last few years. He might be worth it in a year or two, but you won't know until it happens..

That's why I think a guy like Eberle who's a proven top of the league winger is way more valuable for now.
Legit #1 d-men are a lot more difficult to find than 1st line wingers. Just IMO - but the Oilers would have a 0% of acquiring PK without including one of the big 4. The Habs might have to include a sweetner, but the Oilers poster who are trolling with MPS or Gagner + are REALLY unrealistic IMO.

Closest analogy would be that Pronger was worth a 50 goal scoring Shanahan. (And please note - I'm not directly comparing Pronger/PK or Shahanan/Eberle).

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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
PK is the new Phaneuf. Before you jump on me just think back a few years ago when "The Dion" was 2 or 3 years in the league.
While I understand your point - DP was insanely hyped because he played a phsyical bruising game and had a big shot which overshadowed his average hockey IQ. People saw the physical skills, and hoped that the hockey IQ would develop. It might just be me - but I don't question PK's hockey IQ, and think with experience & maturity that his game will become more consistent, and he'll be a legit #1.

Again - totally understand that YMMV.

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01-16-2013, 04:53 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
Compliance/amnesty buyouts do not count against the cap at all. Catch up!

Still not going to happen. Philly needs a #1 Dman, not Subban.
They do this year.

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01-16-2013, 04:54 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Laoghaire View Post
They do this year.
Philly is not going to buyout Briere before the allowed amnesty BOs kick in and trade Couts for Subban. Lol, that is ridiculous.

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01-16-2013, 04:56 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
Compliance/amnesty buyouts do not count against the cap at all. Catch up!

Still not going to happen. Philly needs a #1 Dman, not Subban.
'However, with the new buyout policy, teams can use up one buyout on one player with at least a $3 million average salary this season and incur a full cap hit, less the $900,000 for not burying him player in the minors, but suffer no cap hit next season or beyond.'

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=413671

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01-16-2013, 04:56 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Garth Wang Clan View Post
Sorry if that has been stated in the thread (because I'm in a rush) but I saw that Subban wants 5 years and the Habs want 3 years. I think Subban wants 5 years because by the time that contract is over, he can enter the free agent market and gain more interest which equals more dollars (depending on his level of play).
Just my opinion......
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Originally Posted by Gripper View Post
ya thats exactly what it is, and its not the first time.
While I agree that's the case - what does a 3 year deal really give the Habs? At that point PK is arbitration eligible. If he wants to leave, he files for arbitration (ala Bouwmeester) where he can only get a 1 year deal, and he's a UFA after only 4 years instead of 5. How is that any better for the Habs?

Except for maybe getting a lower contract amount/year, I just don't see the big benefit to a 3 year deal for the Habs if they REALLY are afraid that he wants to leave. He'll leave if he wants to, and there's not much the Habs (or any organization) can do about it.

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01-16-2013, 04:58 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post


While I understand your point - DP was insanely hyped because he played a phsyical bruising game and had a big shot which overshadowed his average hockey IQ. People saw the physical skills, and hoped that the hockey IQ would develop. It might just be me - but I don't question PK's hockey IQ, and think with experience & maturity that his game will become more consistent, and he'll be a legit #1.

Again - totally understand that YMMV.
Phaneuf's 2nd or 3rd year in the league (forget which) was Norris Calibre. Subban hasn't come close to that yet imo.

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01-16-2013, 05:03 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
'However, with the new buyout policy, teams can use up one buyout on one player with at least a $3 million average salary this season and incur a full cap hit, less the $900,000 for not burying him player in the minors, but suffer no cap hit next season or beyond.'

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=413671
I think there is some confusion. AFAIK:

Current amnesty buy-out: full cap hit (less $900K credit) counts with regard to current year salary. After this year though - no cap impact.

Amnesty buy-out in summer of 2013 or 2014. No cap impact.

This makes sense from the perspective that the teams won't get a benefit from immediate buy outs (Redden and Gomez), and from the organization's perspective - the cap and cash impacts are identical to if they player stayed home as was originally required. All the change did is allow the player to become a UFA and not have to sit at home on the coach.

As such, if the Flyers needed $7M of cap space next year, they could buy out Briere in the summer of 2013 or 2014 for 2/3's of the remaining cash due to him in his contract (which was heavily front loaded if I remember correctly), and there would be ZERO cap impact of that buyout.

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01-16-2013, 05:09 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
Compliance/amnesty buyouts do not count against the cap at all. Catch up!

Still not going to happen. Philly needs a #1 Dman, not Subban.
i'm sorry but Gomez's contract will still count against the cap this year. There only allowing these amnesty buy-outs to take place this year so guys like Gomez and Redden can play somewhere. They will not count against the cap next year.

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Old
01-16-2013, 05:11 PM
  #136
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preds would probably be interested for a decent price.

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Old
01-16-2013, 05:12 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
I think there is some confusion. AFAIK:

Current amnesty buy-out: full cap hit (less $900K credit) counts with regard to current year salary. After this year though - no cap impact.

Amnesty buy-out in summer of 2013 or 2014. No cap impact.

This makes sense from the perspective that the teams won't get a benefit from immediate buy outs (Redden and Gomez), and from the organization's perspective - the cap and cash impacts are identical to if they player stayed home as was originally required. All the change did is allow the player to become a UFA and not have to sit at home on the coach.

As such, if the Flyers needed $7M of cap space next year, they could buy out Briere in the summer of 2013 or 2014 for 2/3's of the remaining cash due to him in his contract (which was heavily front loaded if I remember correctly), and there would be ZERO cap impact of that buyout.
and that would work if the Flyers would want to make an offer sheet to an RFA next year.

but by that time, Subban would still be a Hab : )

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Old
01-16-2013, 05:28 PM
  #138
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Don Meehan the agent of PK said that he put PK in Taylor Hall, Tyler Seguin, Evander Kane group of players but I personnally don't think Subban is that good...

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Old
01-16-2013, 05:29 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Sigh View Post
I hope the habbies unload him so I can start liking him.
A great honesty lesson that a lot of people in here should have....

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01-16-2013, 05:31 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
Don Meehan the agent of PK said that he put PK in Taylor Hall, Tyler Seguin, Evander Kane group of players but I personnally don't think Subban is that good...
What he means is that some teams didn't hesitate to give big contracts immediately afther the entry-level contract for young promising prospect that in the end deserved it. He puts Subban in that list of promising young prospect that is actually REALLY important to our team.

I personnally believe that he should prove himself a little more....but I don't think you make that big of a mistake to sign him long term either.

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01-16-2013, 05:31 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
Phaneuf's 2nd or 3rd year in the league (forget which) was Norris Calibre. Subban hasn't come close to that yet imo.
Agree that PK hasn't had that type of year yet. My point was though that even during that year, the flashy part of DP's game (big shot and huge hits) covered up for the fact that DP lacked an elite d-man hockey IQ. Just my perspective, but I think that PK has that potential to be a legit #1.

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01-16-2013, 05:32 PM
  #142
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Flyers should offer sheet like they did for Weber (obviously not that kind of money, but 5.5-6 over a long term.

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01-16-2013, 05:34 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by CantbeatzPekka View Post
preds would probably be interested for a decent price.
Preds are broke after matching the Weber offer sheet.

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01-16-2013, 05:44 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by 12345 View Post
Flyers should offer sheet like they did for Weber (obviously not that kind of money, but 5.5-6 over a long term.
Which would be instantly matched so why even bother. If you want to successfully offer sheet Subban prepare to pony up the 1st rounders.

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01-16-2013, 05:54 PM
  #145
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One gets the strongest feeling that Hab fans are over rating Subs at this point...I think the kid does have a potential high ceiling but his attitude seems to be poor and he really has not done a lot up to this point........why are some people claiming he is a future norris candidate? He seems to be a bit of a headache for the habs....

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01-16-2013, 05:55 PM
  #146
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Sucks for Bergevin that this guy is going to get a huge contract almost entirely based on hype and not his actual on ice play.

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01-16-2013, 05:55 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Agree that PK hasn't had that type of year yet. My point was though that even during that year, the flashy part of DP's game (big shot and huge hits) covered up for the fact that DP lacked an elite d-man hockey IQ. Just my perspective, but I think that PK has that potential to be a legit #1.
I don't think that PK has "elite d-man hockey IQ". In fact, I think both players are comparable. One is overpaid, the other may soon to be

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01-16-2013, 06:09 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
I don't think that PK has "elite d-man hockey IQ". In fact, I think both players are comparable. One is overpaid, the other may soon to be
He might not have elite hockey IQ but it's up there. What separates Subban and Dion is that Subban is a puck retrieval beast and the fact that he is actually good defensively. The play rarely stays in the defensive end when he is on the ice and expect a quick and accurate breakout pass or a Subban rush out of the zone the moment he has it on his stick. Also, Subban is a a gazillion times better at actual defense. And I do not use that term lightly.

Other than that they are both pests, open ice hitters, booming shots, etc... But the original poster's argument was that those were DP's only redeemable attributes and I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devonator View Post
One gets the strongest feeling that Hab fans are over rating Subs at this point...I think the kid does have a potential high ceiling but his attitude seems to be poor and he really has not done a lot up to this point........why are some people claiming he is a future norris candidate? He seems to be a bit of a headache for the habs....
He has't done a lot? You tell me what more could he have done up to this point as a sophomore. Win a Norris, or maybe the Stanley Cup? He is not a headache for the Habs, that is just plain wrong.

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Originally Posted by mikeo1 View Post
Sucks for Bergevin that this guy is going to get a huge contract almost entirely based on hype and not his actual on ice play.
This takes the cake. I bet you've never watched Subban play hockey before.

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01-16-2013, 06:13 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by mikeo1 View Post
Sucks for Bergevin that this guy is going to get a huge contract almost entirely based on hype and not his actual on ice play.
Well his on ice play is really, really good... He plays way better offensively than a lot of people seem to think, and I don't think his offensive capabilities have ever been questioned... Plus, he's able to play physical as he has size and uses it. PK is a really complete defenseman, and would on any normal team be a first pairing D.

So he should get a huge contract in a near future. I just believe he should indeed sign a short contract (3 years) first, and then sign a bigger one for many more years at the end of the first contract.

But I understand the fact he definitely has leverage on his side, as people in Montreal absolutely love him, and would have a hard time forgiving Bergevin if he weren't able to sign a fan favorite for this season.

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01-16-2013, 06:17 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by mikeo1 View Post
Sucks for Bergevin that this guy is going to get a huge contract almost entirely based on hype and not his actual on ice play.
Isn't it ironic that the fans that watch him the most think he should be signed for decent coin and long term but you know better.

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