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Old
01-16-2013, 07:59 PM
  #701
hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
This is a short season, we all know that. MUST get off to a good start. Believe it or not, we DO have to battle with the Leafs for a spot. Sprint to the finish means that missing a game or god forbid a couple (we need him) is a huge blow to the team. IMO it's Subban (well, his camp) who's holding this up so yeah, he is with each day losing favour with the fans. Not saying we won't be in love with him when he finally signs, but we will remember it and for someone who has a bad reputation for various reasons (largely undeserved/overblown), it's not helping him. I wonder if people are sending him "suggestive" tweets. I agree with Bergevin's philosophy so I can only blame PK at this point. EVERY player wants security, that's why you earn in with multiple consistent years being a valuable part, not just 2 years of people chanting your name and you being the most hated player to opposition fans (the biggest compliment most of the time). I hope Price talks some sense into him.
Please stop with this. Most deals are not earned. You think Price earned his deal? Max? It's more about potential than anything. I'm so sick of hearing that he hasn't "earned" anything. I think he's done enough to warrant something better than 2 years.

I swear, some of our fans are clueless.

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01-16-2013, 08:00 PM
  #702
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what is bergevin waiting for??this is ridiculous.

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01-16-2013, 08:04 PM
  #703
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Give Subban 50M/8 years. This would be a GREAT deal.

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01-16-2013, 08:05 PM
  #704
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its not my fault you only watch habs games, and base your opinion on other habs fans opinions.
Great comeback, lots of assumptions and ridiculous statements about somebody you know nothing about.

If you read the thread, there are all kinds of different opinions, from show him his money, to trade him, all of this on a habs board. How is my opinion the same as fellow habs fans opinions? I'd have to be all over the map to share everyone's opinion.

If you read the post from earlier where Oiler's fans that share the exact same thoughts as me, I guess you could also conclude that I base my opinions on other Oiler's fans opinions.

Plus, I watch way too much hockey, which isn't limited to the Habs in any way. I'm an addict.

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01-16-2013, 08:05 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Price took a 2 year deal because he was coming off pretty bad seasons that did not warrant a big deal in any way shape or form. He had zero interest in a long term deal and the habs probably didn't either.

Pacioretty was in the same situation, and only produced in the last year and a half. Although to be fair, Pacioretty signed on the cheap side IMO.

Let's not act like they had to pay their dues here. They weren't in a position to sign big deals until now.

Subban has been awesome both ways since day 1 in both regular season and every playoffs. The situation is completely different from Price and Pacioretty. If anything he deserves his big deal more than either of them.

Also, I agree with you on a lot of things but you really overrate Gorges here, and underrate Subban.
Sorry what?

Have we just forgotten his struggles in the first 20 games of each season? (resulting in being a healthy scratch on both occasions)

He's neither been consistent enough nor dominant enough offensively to earn a $5+ million dollar contract, for any amount of years. Especially when looking at his comparables in Hedman, E. Johnson, Carlson and Fowler (none of which are making over $4M annually).

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01-16-2013, 08:11 PM
  #706
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I wonder if he was a lazy,greedy Russian what would people think about him...probably be kicked out of town. I guess since he's a gold ol' Canadian boy he gets a free pass?

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01-16-2013, 08:11 PM
  #707
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Sorry what?

Have we just forgotten his struggles in the first 20 games of each season? (resulting in being a healthy scratch on both occasions)

He's neither been consistent enough nor dominant enough offensively to earn a $5+ million dollar contract, for any amount of years. Especially when looking at his comparables in Hedman, E. Johnson, Carlson and Fowler (none of which are making over $4M annually).
What about Myers? Are any of those players their team's top dman?

PK's struggles were overblown. Who did he have to mentor him? No one.

Consistency? Price is paid like a top 5 goalie where his biggest problem has been consistency. Give me a break.

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01-16-2013, 08:13 PM
  #708
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I wonder if he was a lazy,greedy Russian what would people think about him...probably be kicked out of town. I guess since he's a gold ol' Canadian boy he gets a free pass?
Why even bring this crap up?

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01-16-2013, 08:15 PM
  #709
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
What about Myers? Are any of those players their team's top dman?

PK's struggles were overblown. Who did he have to mentor him? No one.

Consistency? Price is paid like a top 5 goalie where his biggest problem has been consistency. Give me a break.
Let's not compare apples to oranges here. And plus, Price is years ahead in development, he SHOULD be carrying the team and is paid in regards to that.

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01-16-2013, 08:16 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Price took a 2 year deal because he was coming off pretty bad seasons that did not warrant a big deal in any way shape or form. He had zero interest in a long term deal and the habs probably didn't either.

Pacioretty was in the same situation, and only produced in the last year and a half. Although to be fair, Pacioretty signed on the cheap side IMO.

Let's not act like they had to pay their dues here. They weren't in a position to sign big deals until now.

Subban has been awesome both ways since day 1 in both regular season and every playoffs. The situation is completely different from Price and Pacioretty. If anything he deserves his big deal more than either of them.

Also, I agree with you on a lot of things but you really overrate Gorges here, and underrate Subban.
Agreed. Price lost his starting job when he was coming off his ELC. Patches got sent to Hamilton on his third year of ELC. Subban has played #1 minutes in his last 2 years - much more established than thePrice or Patches coming off ELC.

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01-16-2013, 08:16 PM
  #711
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Why even bring this crap up?
Because i've seen some of my favorite player kicked out of town for way less

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01-16-2013, 08:17 PM
  #712
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Let's not compare apples to oranges here. And plus, Price is years ahead in development, he SHOULD be carrying the team and is paid in regards to that.
Then why is Price's 2nd contract being brought up or Pacioretty's?

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01-16-2013, 08:18 PM
  #713
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Because i've seen some of my favorite player kicked out of town for way less
Has nothing to do with the topic. And there's NOTHING about Subban that is "good ole canadian boy" Are you kidding me?

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01-16-2013, 08:18 PM
  #714
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Agreed. Price lost his starting job when he was coming off his ELC. Patches got sent to Hamilton on his third year of ELC. Subban has played #1 minutes in his last 2 years - much more established than thePrice or Patches coming off ELC.
So much subjectivity in this post.

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01-16-2013, 08:22 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Then why is Price's 2nd contract being brought up or Pacioretty's?
Well they are being brought up because there is this thing called a salary structure within the team that Bergevin intends to uphold?

I agree that he should treat each case uniquely but what can you do. And anyways we are just speculating, no one knows if that is indeed the root of the negotiation problems.

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01-16-2013, 08:24 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
So much subjectivity in this post.
What's subjective? Price not playing in the 2010 playoffs? Patches sent to Hamilton?

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01-16-2013, 08:30 PM
  #717
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What's subjective? Price not playing in the 2010 playoffs? Patches sent to Hamilton?
How about you consider all the factors for one? Price was more than fine that season and Halak just rode out his momentum despite the team scoring lots of goals to keep him in position, his playoffs success was in large part due to Subban, Gill, Gorges, Cammalleri, Gionta who played like world beaters yet he eventually got exposed for his lack of rebound control and lack of size (screens were his kryptonite). Patches was red hot into the NHL but he fizzled out and the team stunk so it made sense to send him down as it might not have been in his best interest to stay on a sinking ship.

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01-16-2013, 08:30 PM
  #718
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Well they are being brought up because there is this thing called a salary structure within the team that Bergevin intends to uphold?

I agree that he should treat each case uniquely but what can you do. And anyways we are just speculating, no one knows if that is indeed the root of the negotiation problems.
You said it yourself. Each case is unique. Really, what have the Habs "structure" and doing things the "Habs way" gotten us over the last several years?

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01-16-2013, 08:32 PM
  #719
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What's subjective? Price not playing in the 2010 playoffs? Patches sent to Hamilton?
Seems more like cold hard facts to me..

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01-16-2013, 08:35 PM
  #720
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How about you consider all the factors for one? Price was more than fine that season and Halak just rode out his momentum despite the team scoring lots of goals to keep him in position, his playoffs success was in large part due to Subban, Gill, Gorges, Cammalleri, Gionta who played like world beaters. Patches was red hot into the NHL but he fizzled out and the team stunk so it made sense to send him down as it might not have been in his best interest to stay on a sinking ship.
Price was not good that year. What are you talking about?

Patches fizzled on a bad team and Subban got better at the end of the season.

Considering the factors actually benefits PK in this case.

Price was a backup, Max was in the AHL. PK's a #1 dman and people think he should get a similar contract? If Gally explodes, should he get the same type of deal as Max and Price? C'mon

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01-16-2013, 08:36 PM
  #721
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
You said it yourself. Each case is unique. Really, what have the Habs "structure" and doing things the "Habs way" gotten us over the last several years?
This...Like Gainey and Gauthier not negotiating with UFA's during season. Good managers adapt to different situations.

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01-16-2013, 08:40 PM
  #722
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Great comeback, lots of assumptions and ridiculous statements about somebody you know nothing about.

If you read the thread, there are all kinds of different opinions, from show him his money, to trade him, all of this on a habs board. How is my opinion the same as fellow habs fans opinions? I'd have to be all over the map to share everyone's opinion.

If you read the post from earlier where Oiler's fans that share the exact same thoughts as me, I guess you could also conclude that I base my opinions on other Oiler's fans opinions.

Plus, I watch way too much hockey, which isn't limited to the Habs in any way. I'm an addict.
dude go look at the trade forum and see how many people agree with you so far 0%

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01-16-2013, 08:43 PM
  #723
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What about Myers? Are any of those players their team's top dman?

PK's struggles were overblown. Who did he have to mentor him? No one.

Consistency? Price is paid like a top 5 goalie where his biggest problem has been consistency. Give me a break.
Every one of them but Carlson, and even then Mike Greens been out for much of the past two years (just as Markov has been for us).

Buffalo gambled on Myers' rookie season, where at only 18 years old he put up 48 points, won the Calder trophy and became his team's #1 Dman. At 24 years old, Subban has not done anything remotely close to what Myers did that year. They're not comparable.

EDIT: As for the point about the lack of consistency, it was more of a secondary concern. What I meant was that his offensive stats alone should not earn him a 5+ million dollar contract and that he lacks the consistency that could make up for that.

As for Price, he's shown the ability (at times) to be a franchise caliber player. PK has not, and IMO will not. I can't see Subban ever being better than Markov was in his prime and he was a borderline top 5 dman in the league, let alone the best at his position in the entire league, which Price has the ability to be. We paid through the nose gambling on Price's flashes of brilliance, much like Buffalo with Myers.


Last edited by Playmaker09: 01-16-2013 at 08:52 PM.
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01-16-2013, 08:43 PM
  #724
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Price was not good that year. What are you talking about?

Patches fizzled on a bad team and Subban got better at the end of the season.

Considering the factors actually benefits PK in this case.

Price was a backup, Max was in the AHL. PK's a #1 dman and people think he should get a similar contract? If Gally explodes, should he get the same type of deal as Max and Price? C'mon
There were circumstances which lead to Price and Patches both not developing linearly is what I'm trying to say. Price was not a backup, quit labeling him as such because if he were then why would we trade our #1 goaltender for Eller. Halak was hot and Martin rode him into the playoffs, and then that was the end of him in MTL. Same for Patches he started out fine with Gomez and Gionta and in retrospect props to him to be able to produce on that line and be their glue because sans Max I can't remember them producing. Max was always special but mishandled.

If they got bridge contracts maybe Subban should get one too then by that logic hmm?

Again, I'm not advocating he should, as I made it clear that we should treat each case individually, but don't belittle Max and Price just because you think Subban should get payday.

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01-16-2013, 08:44 PM
  #725
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Because i've seen some of my favorite player kicked out of town for way less
For what ?
Wanting to prepare his financial life after hockey ?

This is way out of control. Nonsensical really.

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