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01-16-2013, 12:19 PM
  #26
8spokesontheB
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Originally Posted by GodTukka View Post
So damaged goods + junk for a premium young power forward is fair?

I love Horton as much as the next guy but that's a bad deal
I think the Bruins have enough talented prospects that they could offer up someone who isn`t ¨junk¨. I also am unconvinced that Benn is so much better, or effective on a playoff team, than Nathan.

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01-16-2013, 12:28 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by 8spokesontheB View Post
I think the Bruins have enough talented prospects that they could offer up someone who isn`t ¨junk¨. I also am unconvinced that Benn is so much better, or effective on a playoff team, than Nathan.
Maybe, but by i mean "junk" i mean something that's useless to them in the short term, Dallas is in a "do something now" mode (Guessing by them signing 2 40 year olds) so that deal does absolutely nothing.

And odds are if Horton gets shipped to Dallas he doesn't re-sign

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01-16-2013, 12:48 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by 8spokesontheB View Post
I see Benn for Horton as a fair exchange. Krejci possibly also value-wise, although if I were the B`s brass I`d try to make the package bigger, perhaps trying to fill the 3rd line spot and offering either a prospect or pick to do so.
Good luck getting Horton to waive his NTC

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01-16-2013, 01:09 PM
  #29
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People really need a history lesson. Does nobody remember what was said when Horton was brought in?

Horton on a good team( we were even stanley cup champs) = an easy 30 goal scorer<---- Hasnt yet

Remember Kessel?

Kessel - Savard = Will never break 30
<---- Still doing it


I think the best example is to look at what happened with Chris Stewart.

-Young budding power forward on Colorado. Got traded to St.Louis. Went from 64 points to 30 points on a better team to boot.

Just because he plays on Dallas doesn't mean he will blossom in Boston because he's a "Bruins" type player or on a winning/strong team.


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01-16-2013, 01:33 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Bruin4Life View Post
People really need a history lesson. Does nobody remember what was said when Horton was brought in?

Horton on a good team( we were even stanley cup champs) = an easy 30 goal scorer<---- Hasnt yet

Remember Kessel?

Kessel - Savard = Will never break 30
<---- Still doing it


I think the best example is to look at what happened with Chris Stewart.

-Young budding power forward on Colorado. Got traded to St.Louis. Went from 64 points to 30 points on a better team to boot.

Just because he plays on Dallas doesn't mean he will blossom in Boston because he's a "Bruins" type player or on a winning/strong team.
That's like when some fans thought that Kaberle would solve the PP issues because he racked up PP points elsewhere.

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01-16-2013, 01:45 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Caballo Blanco View Post
That's like when some fans thought that Kaberle would solve the PP issues because he racked up PP points elsewhere.
That's not the same at all.

Expecting a player to perform to his historically established standards, is not the same as expecting him to be significantly improved in a new environment.

If expecting a powerplay specialist to continue to be so is foolish, then I suppose we could say that about ANY acquisition in respect to their known traits.

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01-16-2013, 01:45 PM
  #32
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If I was Jamie Benn and Boston offered me a contract, I'd tell them they should have thought of that before they traded their fifth round pick to CBJ for Adam McQuaid, which in turn became Dallas' pick, which is why Jamie Benn is in Dallas...

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01-16-2013, 01:48 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf54 View Post
If I was Jamie Benn and Boston offered me a contract, I'd tell them they should have thought of that before they traded their fifth round pick to CBJ for Adam McQuaid, which in turn became Dallas' pick, which is why Jamie Benn is in Dallas...
I doubt hes anything close to as bitter about that as you suggest

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01-16-2013, 01:59 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Mr. Make-Believe View Post
That's not the same at all.

Expecting a player to perform to his historically established standards, is not the same as expecting him to be significantly improved in a new environment.
These standards established under a certain system can be incompatible with another system. That's what happened with Kaberle. Benn could very well turn out to be nothing more than another 25G, 50 points player here while Krejci racks up a point per game in Dallas.

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01-16-2013, 02:03 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by BrainOfJ View Post
I doubt hes anything close to as bitter about that as you suggest
Really was just kidding - sorry I forgot my sarcasm emoticon.


Forgot how much I loved these boards and stuff....

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01-16-2013, 02:07 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by LoneWolf54 View Post
Really was just kidding - sorry I forgot my sarcasm emoticon.


Forgot how much I loved these boards and stuff....
Hi LW !!!!

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01-16-2013, 02:13 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caballo Blanco View Post
These standards established under a certain system can be incompatible with another system. That's what happened with Kaberle. Benn could very well turn out to be nothing more than another 25G, 50 points player here while Krejci racks up a point per game in Dallas.
You're right about what COULD happen with Krejci and Benn if they were swapped.

But Kaberle had a history of putting PP points on the board in a variety of different systems, configurations AND team efficiencies. For one to expect him to continue to put up points on the powerplay with a new team, is not unrealistic.

To expect a player to play ABOVE historic evidence however? Different story.

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01-16-2013, 02:39 PM
  #38
CamFan81
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Huge fan of Jamie Benn. Love the way he plays

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01-16-2013, 02:46 PM
  #39
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Yeah, Benn on the Bruins would be fantastic. But trading Krejci for him is a lateral move IMO. And trading spare parts/prospects would leave us over the cap ceiling because Benn is not going to sign a cheapo contract.

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01-16-2013, 03:11 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf54 View Post
If I was Jamie Benn and Boston offered me a contract, I'd tell them they should have thought of that before they traded their fifth round pick to CBJ for Adam McQuaid, which in turn became Dallas' pick, which is why Jamie Benn is in Dallas...
Picked him at 129 overall, we had the following pick at 130. Wonder if they stole our pick

That 07 draft was a brutal one with Hamill

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01-16-2013, 03:45 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Bruin4Life View Post
i think benn is good but hes definitely over rated on hf. Consider what it took to get a guy like Thornton or Kovalchuk?

a #1c,Top forward prospect and a first is a vast overpayment. Especially for a guy as good as Horton (and I'd still take Horton over Benn as Horton brings other elements to his game)
Overrated? Here is who had better Even Strength Pts/60 last year (20+ games) - Crosby, Malkin, Eberle, Stamkos. 4 players.

I'm not a fan of trading Krejci at all - I think he is very underrated on this board but Benn is worth Krejci, prospect not named Hamilton, and a high pick. The 1st is probably slight overpayment depending on the prospect but certainly not vast overpayment. I wouldn't want to give that up but it is the type of package it will take.

Most late 1sts and beyond, which is what the prospect and pick would be don't amount to much. You could miss out on a Bergeron or Lucic but are much more likely to be missing a Caron, Colborne, Karsums, Lashoff, Alexandrov, Marjarmaki, Samuelsson, Morrisonn, Yevseyev, Brown, Clymer, Hilbert, Huml, Zultek, Allen, Adams, Ryabchikov, Schafer, Kuster, Goneau, Alvey. If you have to ask who some of these guys are that is my point exactly. They are most of the Bruins late 1st's and 2nds over the last 20 years.

Also, you are nuts to take Horton over Benn and what other elements does Horton bring? A slow release & major concussion history?
Benn can fight, hits more than Horton, blocks more shots, plays PK, has a better takeaway/giveaway ratio, can play center or wing, is over 4 years younger, & without the same concussion history though he did miss 3 games with one 2 years ago.

Production the last 2 years:

Horton - 24:35 & 22:54.
Benn - 22:12 & 20:22 while playing more PK and less powerplay time at ages 21 & 22.

I'm not trying to knock Horton who is very good, and a key part of this team, but Benn is better in pretty much every way, and is just coming into his prime.

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01-16-2013, 03:57 PM
  #42
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Not sure how people who watch Krejci every night and watch Benn once in awhile can say Jamie is better..Not from what i've seen, and Dallas is my brother's favorite team so we watch them on CI quite often... Benn is a better goal scorer, but not near the all around player IMO... Again, just my opinion...

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01-16-2013, 05:31 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
Not sure how people who watch Krejci every night and watch Benn once in awhile can say Jamie is better..Not from what i've seen, and Dallas is my brother's favorite team so we watch them on CI quite often... Benn is a better goal scorer, but not near the all around player IMO... Again, just my opinion...
Most people will focus on the flaws of people they see more while only seeing highlights of players on other teams.

I hate Krejci trade threads. He is very underrated here. I have made many arguments against trading him (or him +) for some other players; but most of the same arguments I made for Benn over Horton apply. I do worry about how the team performs when he isn't in the lineup or doesn't perform well, but I think Benn more than makes up for it and is a little more consistent. Benn has missed more games maybe because of his physical play so that could be a concern.

I think the only place Krejci is better is on faceoffs. I think defense is pretty even though Corsi and real-time stats have Benn as being better the last couple years. Benn is also over 3 years younger, better goal scorer, better production both of the last 2 years with less PP and more PK time, much more physical, more blocked shots, better takeaway/giveaway ratio.

My earlier response was more on Benn being overrated and Benn vs Horton. Benn is a phenomenal player & I easily trade Horton + for Benn.

Krejci +; I would need to see the exact deal but I think Benn is better, and certainly more valuable in trade. The odds of either the pick or prospect doing anything significant in the NHL is probably 40 to 50%. The odds both do anything significant is probably about 20%. The odds either are better than Benn is probably under 10%.

I would never trade Krejci & Marchand or Krejci & Hamilton for Benn though, as a couple of people have indicated.

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01-16-2013, 05:58 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by LoneWolf54 View Post
Really was just kidding - sorry I forgot my sarcasm emoticon.


Forgot how much I loved these boards and stuff....
haha sorry Lonewolf...I thought you were serious. Never know with these boards. My apologies

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01-16-2013, 06:29 PM
  #45
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haha sorry Lonewolf...I thought you were serious. Never know with these boards. My apologies
Just thought the topic was ironic

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01-16-2013, 07:19 PM
  #46
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I think to suggest horton or krejci are better to have for the next 3-5 years than jamie benn is ludicrous beyond words.

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01-16-2013, 09:51 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GodTukka View Post
So damaged goods + junk for a premium young power forward is fair?

I love Horton as much as the next guy but that's a bad deal
I agree but damaged goods is a rough tag for horton. Give him some time then we can discuss throwing around names like that.


But Benn is good I just don't see the B's blowing up their top line for him just yet.

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01-17-2013, 06:36 AM
  #48
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Saw him here in Hamburg, hes not goin anywhere, Dallas will keep him somehow

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01-17-2013, 07:03 AM
  #49
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That package is too rich for my blood. It's probably fair value but I'd much rather keep those assets

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01-17-2013, 07:27 AM
  #50
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Krejci fits in very well on this team. I see no reason to trade him unless it's a can't-miss deal. For all the whining about his inconsistency, he likely puts up 60-ish points (just my guess) from here on out AND shows up in the playoffs.
60ish points in 48 games??? I`m going to assume your speaking about his production in a full year?

Sorry, for a 1st line centerman with the skill he has, I want more production consistently from him however, it appears very much so that he is here to stay and I am hoping that he brings "it" on a consistent basis knowing full well that it`s near impossible to have it each and every night.

Maybe it`s just me (most likely) maybe it`s because it appears as though he just moves so slow, glides too often that it rubs me the wrong way as a lack of effort. Ironically, where I appreciate his game most is in his own end where that effort is there, just like to see him push that puck quicker and I`ll never be convinced that a player who doesn`t have quick puck movement belongs on the PP

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