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Laviolette Under Pressure to Change the System?

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Old
01-16-2013, 04:45 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
That too.
You're not serious with naming Leighton as starter next year are you?

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01-16-2013, 05:06 PM
  #52
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I thought Proskuryakov was a shoot out specialist which was why he was always dressed as the backup?
Nope, rational arguments don't fly with people that rank goalies after a sample size of 12 games, as well as never having seen the games or highlights from them of the games he played. It's easier to run one's mouth off about players in a league that they know nothing about. Plus, saying he was beat out by Stana like it's a bad thing is pretty laughable, as well, especially for someone writing for HF. Just because you're clueless on how someone is performing doesn't mean that that player isn't performing with excellence. Your ignorance does not constitute proof of anything.

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01-16-2013, 05:29 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
Nope, rational arguments don't fly with people that rank goalies after a sample size of 12 games, as well as never having seen the games or highlights from them of the games he played. It's easier to run one's mouth off about players in a league that they know nothing about. Plus, saying he was beat out by Stana like it's a bad thing is pretty laughable, as well, especially for someone writing for HF. Just because you're clueless on how someone is performing doesn't mean that that player isn't performing with excellence. Your ignorance does not constitute proof of anything.
Where are the rational arguments?

Edit: Please tell me "having shootout specialist goalie as a backup vs an Olympic games goalie for Russia whom CSKA probably paid 7 figures" is not what you call rational?

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01-16-2013, 05:41 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
Nope, rational arguments don't fly with people that rank goalies after a sample size of 12 games, as well as never having seen the games or highlights from them of the games he played. It's easier to run one's mouth off about players in a league that they know nothing about. Plus, saying he was beat out by Stana like it's a bad thing is pretty laughable, as well, especially for someone writing for HF. Just because you're clueless on how someone is performing doesn't mean that that player isn't performing with excellence. Your ignorance does not constitute proof of anything.
Seriously? Since you're the expert describe the situation for me.

Because...

1. His numbers were subpar.
2. He was paid handsomely and didn't meet expectations.
3. He was a healthy scratch for more than one game.
4. He is Philadelphia's starter, and paid as such, but was a back-up in Russia.
5. Every report about Bryz's play from reporters claims all of the facts above.

So please give us your expert opinion.

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01-16-2013, 05:51 PM
  #55
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While watching extended highlights of Bryzgalov in the KHL I found it very concerning that the same things he struggled with here while...struggling, were the same things he struggled with there while struggling. He wasn't tracking the puck well, was moving slow, getting beaten on stoppable unscreened shots, etc.

Considering we lack the the personnel to shelter a struggling goalie, if he's going to have major flaws like that again pucks will go in the net.

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01-16-2013, 05:59 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
He came to play after the All-Star break but began to taper off again towards the end of the season. His first half was atrocious; not even NHL quality. 3/4 of the season for him was mostly garbage to average. He had an incredible, Vezina-worthy 1/4 of a season.

His flop over in Russia is also extremely concerning.



He earned it by playing like ****.



We didn't run Biron out of town. He priced himself out of town. He wanted Tim Thomas money. That said, where the hell is Biron now?
that's freaking bull, everything is about blaming goalies, what about the defense? i recall Colorado in 2001 getting defensive players in blake, bourque, foote and they won a cup and roy wasnt facing odd man rushes like bryz is facing, everything the defense does, it's always the goalies fault, why do you have so much hate for the goalies? why are so you so high on them?

obviously the reason philly never wins anything because it's always pointing fingers at one player, im staying by my goalies because they are always play hard and you dont respect them for that, i dont care about what goalie comes here, as long the defense doesnt change, it will be the same outcome, i bet if leighton was struggling like bryz you throw him under the bus for this crap defense?

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01-16-2013, 06:03 PM
  #57
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Or we could just try to bring in players that are better fits for the system we have. Y'know like we had in 2010 and 2011. Weren't there rumors that one reason we traded Richards was because he didn't see eye to eye with Lavi? And now they might want to make Lavi change his approach? How reactionary is this team's management?

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01-16-2013, 06:07 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by zarley zelepukin View Post
Or we could just try to bring in players that are better fits for the system we have. Y'know like we had in 2010 and 2011. Weren't there rumors that one reason we traded Richards was because he didn't see eye to eye with Lavi? And now they might want to make Lavi change his approach? How reactionary is this team's management?
We also immediately began drafting Richards-like players.

Edit: Our team was very well constructed in 2010 and was ideal for Lavi. It just isn't anymore.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 01-16-2013 at 06:13 PM.
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01-16-2013, 06:29 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
that's freaking bull, everything is about blaming goalies, what about the defense? i recall Colorado in 2001 getting defensive players in blake, bourque, foote and they won a cup and roy wasnt facing odd man rushes like bryz is facing, everything the defense does, it's always the goalies fault, why do you have so much hate for the goalies? why are so you so high on them?

obviously the reason philly never wins anything because it's always pointing fingers at one player, im staying by my goalies because they are always play hard and you dont respect them for that, i dont care about what goalie comes here, as long the defense doesnt change, it will be the same outcome, i bet if leighton was struggling like bryz you throw him under the bus for this crap defense?
What about what happened to Bryz over in Russia? What's your excuse for him sucking over there? Can't be the defense because Stana put up excellent numbers on the same team with the same defense.

Is Bryz to blame for every goal against us? No. But he lets in too many softies for the money he is making.

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01-16-2013, 06:59 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan8828 View Post
What about what happened to Bryz over in Russia? What's your excuse for him sucking over there? Can't be the defense because Stana put up excellent numbers on the same team with the same defense.

A slow start followed by a few strong games?

He wasn't the only NHLer to struggle. Pekka Rinne was under .900 SV%

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01-16-2013, 07:36 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
A slow start followed by a few strong games?

He wasn't the only NHLer to struggle. Pekka Rinne was under .900 SV%
Pekka Rinne is Pekka Rinne. He's proven himself to be a consistent NHL goalie. Bryz still hasn't (at least in Philly), which is what makes his struggles concerning.

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01-16-2013, 07:53 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
i dont have high expectations for this team, if lav is not going to change his style, then i dont see this team going anywhere, you cant rely on the goalie to make impossible saves every game if the d doesnt get the rebounds, it's not possible and very unfair on the goalie to do that, if want him gone, what difference is bringing another goalie going to make? what goalies are out there if bryz struggles? they are not many of them, you cant give him a two year window, it could be a 5 year window, alot of goalies like fleury, jonathan gigučre, thomas, hasek, ed belfour, Nikolai Khabibulin etc, it took a long time for goalies to win a championship and if you do get rid of him and he wins a cup with a great team like getting rid of richards, carter, gagne, Williams

you really want to make fools of yourselves again if bryz finally wins a cup with another team and saying to yourselves, i wish we could have had him here? i mean great goalies had bad seasons and won cups the next years, quitting on bryz is like giving up on carter and richards and they win cups, i understand you want a cup as much as me but if you are desperate just trying to get rid of someone because you dont like him then what kind of a fan are you? what about sticking with your players for bad or worse and maybe they will get great defense players and great coach and they'll finally win one.



the problem is you want a win it all now goalie, there's no such thing, there's no guarantees, it's not possible, it's a team effort to win one.
Well said !

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01-16-2013, 08:19 PM
  #63
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Chris doesn't hate goaltenders. He really likes defense and hates overpaying goaltenders (he tends to value defenders more). I thought this was obvious.

Talk of these imaginary fans that expect Bryz to make "impossible saves." The last two pages were riddled with so much nonsense I'm not sure where to start. Toughfighter, we get it. You like Bryz. So do I. Love the passion, but this weird resentment that goaltenders are under appreciated and they work so hard (okay?!) and your wild defending of Bryz is bordering on absurd.

This season will be the truth test about his abilities, so we will all see shortly if Bryz can have success in Philly.

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01-16-2013, 08:44 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Either way, we won't get anywhere unless Bryzgalov plays better.

We don't have Pronger and a younger Timonen to make Leighton look like a god anymore.

When Bryzgalov starts earning that contract, then all of these issues will go away.

We don't have a bad defense. Maybe it's not perfect for Laviolette's system, but Timonen, Coburn, Meszaros, Grossmann, and LSchenn have all proven they can play great hockey at this level.

Now we just see who shows up. The defense or Bryz...or best case scenario -- both.

Based on training camp so far, I'm doubting that Bryz shows up, and it'd be terrible to throw away a great coach because the organization rushed into a commitment with a flake goaltender.
Well stated Chris. I am sure they understand whats going on and hope Lavi is around here for a long period of time.

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01-16-2013, 08:50 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
Chris doesn't hate goaltenders. He really likes defense and hates overpaying goaltenders (he tends to value defenders more). I thought this was obvious.

Talk of these imaginary fans that expect Bryz to make "impossible saves." The last two pages were riddled with so much nonsense I'm not sure where to start. Toughfighter, we get it. You like Bryz. So do I. Love the passion, but this weird resentment that goaltenders are under appreciated and they work so hard (okay?!) and your wild defending of Bryz is bordering on absurd.

This season will be the truth test about his abilities, so we will all see shortly if Bryz can have success in Philly.
Well said.

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01-16-2013, 09:10 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan8828 View Post
What about what happened to Bryz over in Russia? What's your excuse for him sucking over there?
you do know his KHL numbers were a shade better than his career NHL numbers, don't you ?

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01-16-2013, 09:27 PM
  #67
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you do know his KHL numbers were a shade better than his career NHL numbers, don't you ?
I really don't know his numbers that well but people said he was struggling over there and being a healthy scratch some nights isn't reassuring.

I was just trying to point out to toughfighter that you can't blame everything on the defense. Some blame has to go on the goalie too.

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01-16-2013, 09:41 PM
  #68
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um does anybody recall this?

Quote:
As reported by Sports.ru

Vladimir Myshkin, goalkeeper coach for the Russian national team explained why Iliya Bryzgalov was not invited to play at “Karyala” Cup.

Q: The major surprise thus far in the KHL is a weak playing by Iliya Bryzgalov in CSKA. What do you think is happening with him?

A: I would not want to comment on club matters. But you can see for yourself that at this time Iliya does not match the level of the national team. He is far from the optimal form.

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01-16-2013, 09:51 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
um does anybody recall this?
when was that ? after his slow start ? or strong finish ?

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01-16-2013, 09:53 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
when was that ? after his slow start ? or strong finish ?
Congrats you just defined "inconsistency"

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01-16-2013, 09:53 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan8828 View Post
I really don't know his numbers that well but people said he was struggling over there and being a healthy scratch some nights isn't reassuring.
maybe you should find out the facts, before going on heresay

NHL totals
385 gp
.915 sv%
2.52 gaa

KHL
12 GP
.913
2.13


his KHL stats are slightly better than his NHL stats.

----------------------
apparently his KHL team always uses the same backup every game - a shootout specialist, who is there in case of a shootout

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01-16-2013, 09:56 PM
  #72
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1. His numbers were subpar.
Where, in the KHL this year? He finished with a .913 save percentage, and he had maybe 3 bad games, and then regained his form. I guess you would've thrown him under the bus if he didn't perform well in training camp, as well. I wasn't even claiming he did well, but to always look only at the bad performances and not the whole picture is ludicrous.

So yeah, he didn't rock the KHL by any means, and was outperformed by both Varlamov and Bobrovsky, if only slightly by the latter. But so what? You can't look at 12 games and draw conclusions he sucked if he ended with a streak of games where he played really well.


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2. He was paid handsomely and didn't meet expectations.
Where? In the KHL? I don't think the Russian media ever dwelled on this, so I don't know if I agree. But I don't follow the Russian media, so I wouldn't know. If you're talking about last season with the Flyers, then of course I agree.
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3. He was a healthy scratch for more than one game.
So was the goalie that led the league in save percentage for months on end. You know, the one whose play you didn't follow and then laughed at Bryzgalov for being second string to him.
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4. He is Philadelphia's starter, and paid as such, but was a back-up in Russia.
I don't see anything wrong with that. There are maybe 15 goalies in the NHL that couldn't be superseded in their starting roles by goalies playing in the KHL and other European leagues. And every single one of them could be outperformed by a hot goalie that is in general worse than they are, but is playing lights out for a particular duration of time. CSKA did a good job playing the goalie who's better and not forcing an NHL star like Dinamo Minsk did.

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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
5. Every report about Bryz's play from reporters claims all of the facts above.
Haha, yeah, reports by bloggers that have done the same amount of KHL watching as you did. That is, looked at the stats, and then ceased following after 3 games played, so that the image would fit better with what they were determined to see. Meanwhile, people that have actually followed his play more closely mostly agreed he did play badly at the beginning, but started performing really well after that. He was even called up for the EHT with the likes of Barulin and Koshechkin. He's not performing well to be Russia's starter by any stretch of imagination, but if that doesn't show confidence in his play after the initial stumble, I don't know what does.

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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
So please give us your expert opinion.
I never claimed my opinion was expert. I only claim you had a predetermined opinion in regards to his play, and unless he played like Varlamov you'd look for the negatives rather than evaluate his play take into account the entirety of his stay in Russia. Then you would've seen there were bad things, but also plenty of good things to give Flyers fans hope he might perform well this year. I'm under no illusion he's going to perform to his cap hit, because they overpaid him at the get-go. He's paid like a top 5 or top 10 goalie, but he's not. So if that's going to be your measuring stick rather than his actual play, then go ahead. I just think it's stupid to say he's playing like ****, when he isn't. And since you made a snide remark about Stana beating him out, imagine how crappy Quick, Lundquist and the rest of the gang must feel when the bum beat them out in March. According to your logic, Rangers and Kings fans should've also been worried at that point and considered sending those two for conditioning stints in the ECHL to see whether they are good enough prospects to one day play in the NHL.

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Originally Posted by FlyersFan8828 View Post
Pekka Rinne is Pekka Rinne. He's proven himself to be a consistent NHL goalie. Bryz still hasn't (at least in Philly), which is what makes his struggles concerning.
Rinne definitely has proven himself to be a consistent goalie (it's still weird you give him but not Bryz a pass like that, despite the whole proven himself thing), but watching him play he's been far from lights out every single game like some expect Bryz to be. I'm not saying his "struggles" weren't concerning, but if a couple of bad games get you all worked up, then you're destined for a heart attack in a short manner. And I'd even say it's encouraging to see how he turned his game around. It's not how you start, it's how you finish up. Not just here, everywhere in life.

Whatever, so many people on here hate Holmgren and disagree with everything he does, yet their expectations are so firmly fixed on what he thinks a player's value is.

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Old
01-16-2013, 09:58 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
um does anybody recall this?
Haha. Again, so what? He's paid to do well in the NHL, not make Team Russia. The latter is somewhat harder to accomplish.

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01-16-2013, 10:05 PM
  #74
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Haha. Again, so what? He's paid to do well in the NHL, not make Team Russia. The latter is somewhat harder to accomplish.
Frankly I don't think Bryz took his stint in Russia too seriously anyway so kind of hard to judge him empirically but I can't say I'm not concerned about his inconsistency since coming to the Flyers. I truly hope he is more consistent this year and holds his end of the bargain more so than last year which by his own admission he did not do. In this shortened season..him starting off slow and ending strong or starting strong and ending slow will not bode well for the Flyers postseason hopes. Obviously the D will have to hold their own too..another concern.

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01-16-2013, 10:07 PM
  #75
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1. His numbers were subpar.
they were slightly better than his career NHL numbers

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