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01-16-2013, 08:46 PM
  #726
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
There were circumstances which lead to Price and Patches both not developing linearly is what I'm trying to say. Price was not a backup, quit labeling him as such because if he were then why would we trade our #1 goaltender for Eller. Halak was hot and Martin rode him into the playoffs, and then that was the end of him in MTL. Same for Patches he started out fine with Gomez and Gionta and in retrospect props to him to be able to produce on that line and be their glue because sans Max I can't remember them producing. Max was always special but mishandled.

If they got bridge contracts maybe Subban should get one too then by that logic hmm?

Again, I'm not advocating he should, as I made it clear that we should treat each case individually, but don't belittle Max and Price just because you think Subban should get payday.
I don't think anyone is belittling Price or Patches but we have short memories. I was at the Bell Center the first exhibition game in 2011 when Price got mercifully booed throughout the game.

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01-16-2013, 08:48 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by haburger View Post
what is bergevin waiting for??this is ridiculous.
It's all Meehan's fault.. He's a Leafs fan and doesn't want PK playing Saturday..

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01-16-2013, 08:51 PM
  #728
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Like you on the team PK but there is no need to put yourself above the team.

Just sign a damned contract.

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Old
01-16-2013, 08:52 PM
  #729
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It's all Meehan's fault.. He's a Leafs fan and doesn't want PK playing Saturday..
Meehan is a good Irish sounding name......like a lot of names in the Boston area.

Undercover Bruins as well as Leafs fan?

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01-16-2013, 08:52 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Like you on the team PK but there is no need to put yourself above the team.

Just sign a damned contract.
Once he gets the right offer, he will sign.

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Old
01-16-2013, 08:58 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by Playmaker09 View Post
Sorry what?

Have we just forgotten his struggles in the first 20 games of each season? (resulting in being a healthy scratch on both occasions)

He's neither been consistent enough nor dominant enough offensively to earn a $5+ million dollar contract, for any amount of years. Especially when looking at his comparables in Hedman, E. Johnson, Carlson and Fowler (none of which are making over $4M annually).
Euhh really don't know what you're talking about.
First off, PK's ''struggles'' were way overblown. People expected PERFECTION out of him. A youngster makes mistakes, it's unavoidable. Heck, people even criticized Crosby on some things, like diving and whining. He wasn't nearly as good as he is today on both sides of the rink, same for Ovechkin, same for Malkin.
I can tell you one thing, if PK was brought up like most rookies are, which means 4-6 Dman, you wouldn't have noticed any of those mistakes. We'd also likely wouldn't be talking about him not be signed today as well.
Also, a lot of people disagreed with his scratching. Just like plenty of people were blown away by the fact Eller got benched. PK, as a rookie and sophomore, was asked to take over Markov's role. He played the most out of all our Dmen, played in every situation, and faced the toughest opponents in the toughest situations. To expect a rookie to be able to accomplish this without making mistakes is just unrealistic.
It was too much for the coaching staff though, and they opted to send him a message. I didn't agree with it, I think it's stupid to put so much pressure on a young kid and then bench him for making mistakes.
Same for Eller, I remember him getting the duty of shutting down Datsyuk's line, when he failed and they got scored on he got glued to the bench. Smart.

As for your list of Dman, Hedman got criticized in TB, and fans were disappointed with his progression at some point. E.Jo got traded, Carlson is not a #1 D and still makes just under 4M. Fowler still has another year in his ELC and struggled a lot more last year, he's also a cumulative -53, the worst of his team in both seasons. He could have waited another season, bounced back, and likely sign a bigger deal. Nonetheless he got a 20M deal.

What about Myers?? His progression is actually the best comparable. When looking at the situation he was placed in, his utilization, his performance over each years, surprise surprise, he got a bigger deal. Coincidence? No. Logical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Let's not compare apples to oranges here. And plus, Price is years ahead in development, he SHOULD be carrying the team and is paid in regards to that.
Price years ahead?? At the end of his ELC Price had lost his #1 spot to Halak, who went on to carry us in the POs to the ECF. Price only won 13games that season. He had a lot to prove. Price should be carrying this team, he hasn't done it yet entirely. Not doubting him, but let's not pretend Price actually earned making .500K less than the best goalie in the NHL. He still hasn't lead us anywhere.

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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
So much subjectivity in this post.
What was subjective? It was all facts actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Well they are being brought up because there is this thing called a salary structure within the team that Bergevin intends to uphold?

I agree that he should treat each case uniquely but what can you do. And anyways we are just speculating, no one knows if that is indeed the root of the negotiation problems.
Which is it?? treat each case uniquely or follow a strict structure?
You can have a structure in place, but it has to be flexible for exceptions. PK is one.
If Gally produced well in his rookie year, had a small drop in sophomore, and back up to about 65-70pts in his final year, you think he'll only deserve a 2year deal worth a couple millions??
I mean, the structure you're talking about permitted Prust to earn 2.5M for 4 seasons. You realize that well? Now people are going to argue PK is only worth 2 seasons of how 1M more than this guy??? I know one was an UFA, but it's still pretty darn ridiculous when you take a step back and look at the big picture.

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Old
01-16-2013, 09:10 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
Almost certain it's not the $, but the term.
But..doesn't term=cash?
I mean, if they agree on 20M, but PK sees it over 3years, as opposed to 5years for management. It's the difference between 6.5M cap hit to 4M...
So, in the end, it's pretty much the same thing right..

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01-16-2013, 09:17 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
But..doesn't term=cash?
I mean, if they agree on 20M, but PK sees it over 3years, as opposed to 5years for management. It's the difference between 6.5M cap hit to 4M...
So, in the end, it's pretty much the same thing right..
No...they're apparently at the same number (ex: 4m) but the term isn't agreed upon. Habs want shorter, he wants longer...that's the rumor.

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Old
01-16-2013, 09:35 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
No...they're apparently at the same number (ex: 4m) but the term isn't agreed upon. Habs want shorter, he wants longer...that's the rumor.
If he's actually willing to play for 4 million a year they should sign him for as long as possible.

Think about it, 8 years, by 2020, the cap may have risen from 70 million to 130 million, 4 million will be average league salary and elite dmen will be making ~12 million.

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Old
01-16-2013, 09:38 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
No...they're apparently at the same number (ex: 4m) but the term isn't agreed upon. Habs want shorter, he wants longer...that's the rumor.
Ya, that's my point. 4x2season=8M, 4Mx5=20M.
Difference, 12M. That's cash.
I understand the difference between cash and term, but at the end of the day, term=cash.

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Old
01-16-2013, 09:42 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Like you on the team PK but there is no need to put yourself above the team.

Just sign a damned contract.
Sign any contract?

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Old
01-16-2013, 09:46 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Ya, that's my point. 4x2season=8M, 4Mx5=20M.
Difference, 12M. That's cash.
I understand the difference between cash and term, but at the end of the day, term=cash.
Term is actually declining declining cash once you factor in salary cap depreciation.

I'm shocked PK is willing to sign long-term for so little.

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Old
01-16-2013, 09:56 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Term is actually declining declining cash once you factor in salary cap depreciation.

I'm shocked PK is willing to sign long-term for so little.
hes not willing to sign for so little. dont know where the $4m number was thrown out but that number is stupid.

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Old
01-16-2013, 10:34 PM
  #739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
No...they're apparently at the same number (ex: 4m) but the term isn't agreed upon. Habs want shorter, he wants longer...that's the rumor.
If Subban was willing to sign for 4m long term and is not getting signed, Bergevin deserves to be fired on the spot.

(I know what you mean, but )

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Old
01-16-2013, 10:45 PM
  #740
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Term is actually declining declining cash once you factor in salary cap depreciation.

I'm shocked PK is willing to sign long-term for so little.
4M long term makes no sense, I don't believe it. If it was really that, both Subban and Bergevin would be retarded. Subban for being willing to accept so little and Bergevin for not jumping all over it.

The only way it makes sense is on a shorter 1-2 year deal.

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Old
01-16-2013, 10:47 PM
  #741
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If what Spector is saying is true (Habs and PK agreed on $4M per but Habs wants 3 years and PK want 5), the habs are crazy saying no to that. Five years @ $4M per is a GREAT deal for Subban, I have a hard time believing it's true.

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01-16-2013, 10:51 PM
  #742
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Heard on 690 he's looking for doughty type money... Heck Myers got paid and probably using that also as a measuring stick...

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Old
01-16-2013, 10:52 PM
  #743
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Add me to the group of guys who just want a deal signed no matter what at this stage. Subban is already a #2 on any given team and will without a doubt be a top 10 defenseman in the NHL in less than 3 years, just give him the term he wants. Unless the media keeps ******** on his head and making him look bad like the agenda they had against him last year, I don't see him leaving this team. I mean Carey Price signed a 6 year deal and they're best buddies...

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Old
01-16-2013, 10:58 PM
  #744
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Meh. I don't believe a word of this 'far apart' talk or that Bergevin wants a short deal. This is a trick by certain player agents, to initially ask for the moon, then start making reasonable counter offers close to the eve of opening night.

Some of the players Meehan represented that were holdouts through training camp & even the season:
-Linden
-Niedermeyer
-Arnott
-Peca
-Doughty
-Theodore
-Lafontaine

hmm

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Old
01-16-2013, 11:07 PM
  #745
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Originally Posted by hockeyjockey View Post
Heard on 690 he's looking for doughty type money... Heck Myers got paid and probably using that also as a measuring stick...
Your first mistake is listening to sports radio. Your second mistake is believing them.

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Old
01-16-2013, 11:27 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Your first mistake is listening to sports radio. Your second mistake is believing them.
Hmmm ok... Sure. Your sense of humor is a little dry. I never said I believed them and just repeated what I heard. Maybe you should think about putting down the whiskey

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Old
01-16-2013, 11:33 PM
  #747
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From what I saw on Le Match, apparently one of Meehan's associate said something about John Carlson. Which kind of hint at what they what and goes alone the line of what it said here.... About four millions, Montreal wants 3years, Subban six.

We will see I guess.

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Old
01-17-2013, 12:00 AM
  #748
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RenLavoieRDS:
No talks between PK Subban agent, Don Meehan and the Canadiens Wednesday.

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01-17-2013, 12:11 AM
  #749
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This is getting quite ridiculous, it's only some 60+ hours till the puck drops and there isn't even any negotiations as far as we know. I've already said that I would offer PK 4.8 for 5 years and my settling price would be 5 for 5.

Fact is PK that the cap is not what it used to be, you should've signed last year.

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Old
01-17-2013, 12:25 AM
  #750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
RenLavoieRDS:
No talks between PK Subban agent, Don Meehan and the Canadiens Wednesday.
Looks like both sides are playing a game of when you have something different to offer you contact us.

I hope you enjoy watching your teammates play Saturday from your couch PK.

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