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Old
01-14-2013, 11:47 PM
  #51
CM Lundqvist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Even from a "I have no clue what I'm talking about w/r/t Columbus" perspective, one would at least think Ryan Murray has a distinct advantage there.
Sorry, accidentally deleted this part of the post when I went to quote you...

Ryan Murray isn't a guarantee at this point. The guy just had a major injury which caused him to miss the WJC and he hasn't even played a game in the NHL yet.

Yes, I'm pretty damn positive that he'll be a good, possibly great defender in due time, but again, a prospect. It's just like Yakupov. People are throwing him in trades for established stars 1 for 1 and he hasn't played a single game in the NHL.

I hope Murray works out... as long as Columbus stays in the west

But seriously, Murray's gonna be a player. Didn't get to follow him as much as I wanted to with Everett, but I think he's the kind you can build a defense around.

I just think with the strides MDZ has made and working with Jim Schoenfeld that this kid could round out his game and be an absolute nightmare on the ice for opposing teams. To me, him and McDonagh have the most upside on the Rangers. You simply CANNOT teach that kind of offensive instinct he has. However, you can teach him to play better defense and, that was apparent with how well he played last season.

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01-14-2013, 11:57 PM
  #52
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At first I thought it was a terrible deal for the Rangers. Then I thought about it and it's not that bad.

But I'd rather keep Del Zotto then risk Tyutin/Nikitin not being able to duplicate what they did last year.

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01-15-2013, 12:04 AM
  #53
CM Lundqvist
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
At first I thought it was a terrible deal for the Rangers. Then I thought about it and it's not that bad.

But I'd rather keep Del Zotto then risk Tyutin/Nikitin not being able to duplicate what they did last year.
Wouldn't mind Toots back, but not at what he's making and not for what they'd want for him.

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01-15-2013, 12:05 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
Wouldn't mind Toots back, but not at what he's making and not for what they'd want for him.
Agreed. I like Toots but not for Del Zotto+ and especially not since Uncle Glen scored Del Zotto at a discount for the next two seasons.

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01-15-2013, 12:13 AM
  #55
CM Lundqvist
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Agreed. I like Toots but not for Del Zotto+ and especially not since Uncle Glen scored Del Zotto at a discount for the next two seasons.
Exactly.

It seems that NO ONE has taken into account the contract that Del Zotto has for his production so far, but they'll factor in his 2nd season in the NHL more than his rookie year or the previous year somehow.

Haters gonna hate.

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01-15-2013, 12:43 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
Sorry, accidentally deleted this part of the post when I went to quote you...

Ryan Murray isn't a guarantee at this point. The guy just had a major injury which caused him to miss the WJC and he hasn't even played a game in the NHL yet.

Yes, I'm pretty damn positive that he'll be a good, possibly great defender in due time, but again, a prospect. It's just like Yakupov. People are throwing him in trades for established stars 1 for 1 and he hasn't played a single game in the NHL.

I hope Murray works out... as long as Columbus stays in the west

But seriously, Murray's gonna be a player. Didn't get to follow him as much as I wanted to with Everett, but I think he's the kind you can build a defense around.

I just think with the strides MDZ has made and working with Jim Schoenfeld that this kid could round out his game and be an absolute nightmare on the ice for opposing teams. To me, him and McDonagh have the most upside on the Rangers. You simply CANNOT teach that kind of offensive instinct he has. However, you can teach him to play better defense and, that was apparent with how well he played last season.
Fair enough. However, it's also important to note that MDZ being a nightmare to other teams is also decidedly not a guarantee. While he's more valuable now in any given trade discussion because he's a current NHL player that produces now, that doesn't necessarily make him that much more attractive to us than what we've already got.

Indeed, it makes him kind of something for us to avoid, since we've already got lots of folks who are either 1) producing at or above the level he does now, and/or 2) have similar, reach-for-the-stars upside.
Nobody's presently got BOTH (unless one's really high on Nikitin ), but we don't need both. We've got the angles covered.

Could he be the best? If things go badly for us with our other guys and well for him, sure. But is that worth the risk and the costs as has been proposed here? IMO, not a chance in hell.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
Exactly.

It seems that NO ONE has taken into account the contract that Del Zotto has for his production so far, but they'll factor in his 2nd season in the NHL more than his rookie year or the previous year somehow.
Arguably, something similar could be said for Nikitin.

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01-15-2013, 12:49 AM
  #57
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I can't believe this is still being discussed.

Horrible deal for the Jackets.

They move an entire 2nd pairing for a young, undersized offensive defenseman when they have Jack Johnson, James Wisniewski, John Moore, David Savard, Tim Erixon, and Ryan Murray. Upside gets massively overrated on here sometimes.


Last edited by Crede777: 01-15-2013 at 01:00 AM.
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01-15-2013, 06:24 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
Since when did I say that Del Zotto was the best offensive defenseman in the league?

However, at 22 years old, tying for 17th at ES points by a defender when a fair amount of defenders in front of him averaged a significant amount of ice time more than he did a game, I'd consider that a top-notch offensive defenseman.

Not "THE BEST OFFENSIVE DEFENSEMAN IN THE GAME" because I didn't know when the words "TOP NOTCH" became a viable substitute for the former phrase.

Go find someone else's mouth to put words in. I get that you're still bitter about losing to the Rangers, but grow up, move on, get over it and stop trying to stir the pot in every thread that involves the Rangers.

You don't like us, WE GET IT. We don't like you either. Our world will continue to work it's ways, and life will move on. Apparently, you can't do the same.

You flood the Nash threads with your non-sense and there's apparently no end in sight.



All I'm saying is that Columbus wouldn't just laugh and hang up the phone like many in here have suggested. You've brought up some decent points without the ridiculousness that others have used in this.
like many have suggested? Who exactly has suggested that? A bunch of people who don't know anything about Columbus? Pretty much every Columbus fan on this thread is in agreement, because a pair is better than one. It looks as if you aren't even listening, which is the worst part, there is a clear reason why they dont want Del Zotto for that price, and all you seem to care about your guys point totals.

What it boils down to, is CONSISTENCY. I think it was fair that another person brought up Nikitin needs to replicate his success, yet Del Zotto can have a stinker of a season and that will be ignored?

And for the record, I don't really hate all Ranger fans, I just don't like you. You still think I'm bitter about that series, lol, its funny I haven't commented on Nash since around the time of the trade. I wasn't expecting Ottawa to make the playoffs, who am I kidding, you must clearly know better.


Last edited by piqued: 01-16-2013 at 02:03 PM. Reason: unnecessary
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Old
01-15-2013, 06:35 AM
  #59
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Prefer to keep re-signed MDZ instead of in this depth package, not looking to move him unless there is a significant upgrade somewhere coming here.

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01-15-2013, 06:42 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
No, they really don't.
Yeah, i know. That is what I said, Columbus doesn't take the deal.

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01-15-2013, 07:32 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
All I'm saying is that Columbus wouldn't just laugh and hang up the phone like many in here have suggested. You've brought up some decent points without the ridiculousness that others have used in this.
No one said this. A couple people with one-line responses said it was a bad deal for Columbus. And a couple people gave brief answers saying NYR wouldn't do it. Nice miscasting of the discussion.

You can't argue value in a vacuum. It's the stuff outside the vacuum that really determines value. One really good young defenseman (who I'd love to have on the Jackets) isn't worth moving an entire second pairing on a defense that needs a solid-if-unspectacular presence. The other pieces involved in the proposal don't really help the Jackets, either. And the CBJ as a whole, in the wake of the Nash deal folks may have heard of, need to let the resulting roster sift and find a level before additional changes are made.

I don't think I would like that deal from a Rangers perspective, either, but I guess it depends on your approach to the roster.

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01-15-2013, 08:57 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
I can't believe this is still being discussed.

Horrible deal for the Jackets.

They move an entire 2nd pairing for a young, undersized offensive defenseman when they have Jack Johnson, James Wisniewski, John Moore, David Savard, Tim Erixon, and Ryan Murray. Upside gets massively overrated on here sometimes.
Del Zotto is not undersized.

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01-15-2013, 09:28 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
Yeah, i know. That is what I said, Columbus doesn't take the deal.
They probably don't. The Rangers don't either.

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01-15-2013, 09:29 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Del Zotto is not undersized.
Perhaps no. He would instantly be the smallest defenseman on our roster, though. (Wisniewski just barely has him beat.)

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01-15-2013, 09:58 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
To NYR: Tyutin, Nikitin, MacKenzie, Letestu

To CBJ: Del Zotto, Rupp, Thomas/2nd

New York imports a 2nd pairing that has great chemistry and no longer has any weakness on D with McDonaugh-Girardi/Tyutin-Nikitin/Staal-Stralman. Each of these pairings can play 20+ min assuming Stralman builds on his last season. Also NYR improves its bottom 6, which looks a bit suspect (at least to me). Rupp goes the other way for salary, perhaps CBJ withholds some salary to make it work. The upgrades could be enough to push the Rangers over the top.

Columbus clears roster spots for its youth movement and gets a defenseman with high potential.
What about all the salary and caphits Rangers gets back? Next season cap is gonna drop to 63-64 and we got Stepan, McDonagh to resign. Only way this trade could happen is if CBJ took Redden as well. Which they won't.

Bad deal for both teams if you ask me. And it's overkill to use Marc Staal on the 3rd pairing, especially at around $4 million... if there wasn't a cap, sure. But there is. So pass.

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01-15-2013, 10:03 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
...and in between, he had 11 points in 47 games and spent time in the AHL. 0 even-strength goals.

We're not fools here. We've seen young players come in and play well early, then simply stagnate or regress. You should know too...we traded one of them to you to pick up Tyutin in the first place.
You forgot that he has had a total of 2 really good seasons and 1 bad (it happens to young players, heck it happens to everyone basically), MDZ finished 12th in Norris voting, he had .5 PPG in the playoffs on a team that couldn't barely score to save their lives. Where the teams best scorer was playing with a torn rotator cuff. I'd say MDZ is pretty valuable, and his contract makes him even more valuable.

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Old
01-15-2013, 10:06 AM
  #67
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No deal from either side. Unnecessarily guts the Jackets blueline, and the Rangers don't need a major roster shakeup when we're poised to make a run at a cup.

I also think the value is skewed quite a bit in the Rangers favor.

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01-15-2013, 11:21 PM
  #68
CM Lundqvist
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
like many have suggested? Who exactly has suggested that? A bunch of people who don't know anything about Columbus? Pretty much every Columbus fan on this thread is in agreement, because a pair is better than one. It looks as if you aren't even listening, which is the worst part, there is a clear reason why they dont want Del Zotto for that price, and all you seem to care about your guys point totals.
What are you talking about? I said that some fans in here said Columbus would laugh and hang up the phone at the offer. Speaking not listening, you're not listening or reading anything I say. Otherwise, this entire part wouldn't have needed to be posted.

First, according to you, I said Del Zotto is the best offensive defenseman in the league or on par with Karlsson. Now, I'm saying the Columbus fans would take the deal. Instead of responding blindly to my posts in a fit of rage, how about you read them first and cool your jets?

Quote:
What it boils down to, is CONSISTENCY. I think it was fair that another person brought up Nikitin needs to replicate his success, yet Del Zotto can have a stinker of a season and that will be ignored?
When did I "ignore" Del Zotto's sophomore year? I said it was a hiccup. However, Mayor Bee tried to down play Del Zotto's value due to that year, when the kid came back and had the best season of his career and finished 12th in Norris voting while doing so.

Quote:
And for the record, I don't really hate all Ranger fans, I just don't like you. You still think I'm bitter about that series, lol, its funny I haven't commented on Nash since around the time of the trade. I wasn't expecting Ottawa to make the playoffs, who am I kidding, you must clearly know better.
No, you do hate the Rangers. Every thread you've posted on since the Nash Trade threads - I had to throw the word "since" in there considering that you either are having trouble reading my posts and/or have selective reading issues because I didn't say you have commented on Nash or the trade anytime recently - has seen you come up badmouthing the Rangers or a potential trade or move they'd make.


Last edited by piqued: 01-16-2013 at 02:02 PM. Reason: unnecessary
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Old
01-16-2013, 10:53 PM
  #69
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MDZ is a good up & coming puck mover

I see him as pretty critical to the Rags future. Obviously you are looking for a good pairing to play solid D, and the TinTin line may be one of the most underrated in the league.

Thanks for recognizing their success last year, & good luck to the Rags - hope Nash goes nutz for ya's.

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01-16-2013, 11:54 PM
  #70
CM Lundqvist
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Originally Posted by LetsGOJackets!! View Post
I see him as pretty critical to the Rags future. Obviously you are looking for a good pairing to play solid D, and the TinTin line may be one of the most underrated in the league.

Thanks for recognizing their success last year, & good luck to the Rags - hope Nash goes nutz for ya's.
Personally, I don't think its a good deal for either team, but it's not a terrible proposal.

Rangers won't want to down grade in their top-4 just to add another defender when they can go another route to do so and probably will by the trade deadline and Columbus isn't going to ship their best pair defensively to get a very good young asset in return.

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Old
01-17-2013, 12:08 AM
  #71
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I really don't see any incentive for CBJ to do this at all. Whatever Del Zotto's upside is, it isn't worth getting rid of their best D pairing. One step forward, two steps back, that sort of thing.

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