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Old
01-16-2013, 11:59 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Nash View Post
If he had a 4 year contract at his current cap hit, the asking price would be much higher.

I don't know if Toronto is the best destination for him. You aren't there yet to really compete, but you would be a heck of a lot closer with him. The Canucks weren't that great when we got him either. He brought us some legitimacy in the league though. He made us capable of stealing any game. He made us a team free agents wanted to sign with. I think he still has that allure, but not everyone does.
If he had 4yr left i would expect a similar pkg to Nash but considering its common knowledge Luo asked for a trade and Luo's penalty corrected cap hit is 6.7-7.3 approx depending if he stays with Van and that 10mil is counted.

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01-17-2013, 12:01 AM
  #202
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The analogy used earlier that Van fans seem like used car salesmen seems to fit. The way I see it as a guy needs a car and goes to the lot and there in only 1 car there. The salesman is playing the u need a car card but to the buyer the car is over priced and he knows that in the summer there will be more cars at better prices. Now can the used car salesman be ok if he doesn't sell the car sure of course but the negatives are obvious and been beaten to death and the guy who needs a car can survive with out one a little bit longer as well.

Sometimes making a trade to appease a player can bite a team in the but and if van trades Luo they will prob get handcuffed due to other GM's knowing he asked for a trade and the contract.

oops repost
OK, if going this route, think of it as a pick up truck... and you have to haul a great big pile of crazy **** in a few months... Having two pick up trucks makes it easier, better and quicker, than trading one pick up truck for the Yugo being offered in return... The pick up works great, it's just, you have two... Who in their right mind would trade the pick up truck for a Yugo, when there is crazy **** to be moved in the balance?

The Canucks want a Stanley Cup... Nothing else matters (or, everything else is secondary)... If Luongo nets nothing next October, and is given to Florida, I'm personally good with it... If the offers on here are close to reality, I applaud it, because keeping Luongo for the season was the only way Luongo could help on a cup run (as the return wouldn't)...

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01-17-2013, 12:02 AM
  #203
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I disagree with this. Many Leafs fans, not all, but many, think that because a player is available, that means its a "must deal at any costs" situation, and that their entitled to make obscene offers as well. We would rather make a trade, if it suits our needs, but most trades here don't do that. I'd say in the real world, MG is dealing with the same thing. Now with injuries to Booth and Kesler not recovering as fast as we'd hoped, some think that means Luongo's now cheaper, where Canucks think that means AV will play a much more defensive and conservative game, not affecting the value at all, or inversely, making Luongo more valuable to us.
I agree that Van doesn't need to trade Luo and strategically I think it would be a mistake considering the limited return. I would talk to Cory and Luo and see if they are willing to split games unless behind the scenes Luo is really pushing for a trade.

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01-17-2013, 12:03 AM
  #204
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Don't think the Canucks would have much for a problem with it. As long as the value is close to what Gillis wants, the Canucks will gladly take on Komi for the year then buy him out.
Which if we based the leafs willingness on the HF fans would not be suitable.

Taking on Komis salary as a favour for Frattin and a 2nd or any other similar combo is a no go.

And Frattin is the only youngish guy beside Reilly and Gardiner who I think will actually make some sort of impact at the NHL level. Kadri is looking every day like miss.

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01-17-2013, 12:04 AM
  #205
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OK, if going this route, think of it as a pick up truck... and you have to haul a great big pile of crazy **** in a few months... Having two pick up trucks makes it easier, better and quicker, than trading one pick up truck for the Yugo being offered in return... The pick up works great, it's just, you have two... Who in their right mind would trade the pick up truck for a Yugo, when there is crazy **** to be moved in the balance?

The Canucks want a Stanley Cup... Nothing else matters (or, everything else is secondary)... If Luongo nets nothing next October, and is given to Florida, I'm personally good with it... If the offers on here are close to reality, I applaud it, because keeping Luongo for the season was the only way Luongo could help on a cup run (as the return wouldn't)...
I 100% agree I think trading Luo now for the low returns makes no sense unless he id demanding out behind closed doors
If Luo is demanding a trade and the interest is little more than tire kickers and low ballers then Van looks to be bent over the barrel akin to Heatly and Ott.

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01-17-2013, 12:12 AM
  #206
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not sure if serious?? Do you really think that Luo>>>>Nash???
A top goaltender will always be rated higher than a top winger for me. There is more value in having top goaltending than scoring. Leads fan should know this. Kessel and Lupul scored plenty last year and where did the team finish? Add in how incredibly overrated Nash is and it isn't close. He gets the hype for goal scoring, but he is a 50/50 scorer. If he gets 30 goals, he gets 30 assists. He has no excuses for 59 point seasons anymore now that he's in NY. It's put up or shut up year for him.

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01-17-2013, 12:12 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by bobbyt911 View Post
I 100% agree I think trading Luo now for the low returns makes no sense unless he id demanding out behind closed doors
If Luo is demanding a trade and the interest is little more than tire kickers and low ballers then Van looks to be bent over the barrel akin to Heatly and Ott.
He's not though. If he was he would've been dealt by now.

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01-17-2013, 12:14 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by bobbyt911 View Post
The analogy used earlier that Van fans seem like used car salesmen seems to fit. The way I see it as a guy needs a car and goes to the lot and there in only 1 car there. The salesman is playing the u need a car card but to the buyer the car is over priced and he knows that in the summer there will be more cars at better prices. Now can the used car salesman be ok if he doesn't sell the car sure of course but the negatives are obvious and been beaten to death and the guy who needs a car can survive with out one a little bit longer as well.

Sometimes making a trade to appease a player can bite a team in the but and if van trades Luo they will prob get handcuffed due to other GM's knowing he asked for a trade and the contract.

oops repost
'Cept the potential buyer needs a reliable car to get him to and from work and theres only so many times his boss will accept the excuse of "my car broke down".

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Old
01-17-2013, 12:19 AM
  #209
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'Cept the potential buyer needs a reliable car to get him to and from work and theres only so many times his boss will accept the excuse of "my car broke down".
I think that ship sailed when Burke was fired... I hope.

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Old
01-17-2013, 12:26 AM
  #210
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According to blank: Niemi and Bryz > Luongo

That's like saying Kessel > Crosby
Could be the case if Crosby get his brain raddled again and signed a 12 year contracted . Luck the can not happen anymore

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01-17-2013, 12:27 AM
  #211
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Could be the case if Crosby get his brain raddled again and signed a 12 year contracted . Luck the can not happen anymore
I was under the impression Crosbys last "concussion" was a neck issue not a concussion.

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01-17-2013, 12:30 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by bobbyt911 View Post
I 100% agree I think trading Luo now for the low returns makes no sense unless he id demanding out behind closed doors
If Luo is demanding a trade and the interest is little more than tire kickers and low ballers then Van looks to be bent over the barrel akin to Heatly and Ott.
... It's the parting gift that Lu has given the Canucks... It's a testament to how well the Canucks have treated Luongo, and how well Luongo has treated the Canucks... Luongo could have pulled a Sundin, and refused to be traded given his NTC (after all, lots of things about the Canucks are attractive)... Luongo could have pulled a Heatley, and demanded to be traded (after all, he's being replaced by a younger, and from what I can tell, at least as good version)... Instead, he pulled a Luongo... I'm tradeable, when you deem it's time to trade me... Of course, this can only work "within reason" - for me, "within reason" is before the end of training camp next year... Both Schneider and Luongo have given the green light for this season... That much is known... Anyone who doesn't believe this... watch in awe...

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01-17-2013, 12:32 AM
  #213
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10 yrs for a 33yr old , my god LOL
It's turrible

turrible!

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01-17-2013, 01:00 AM
  #214
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It's turrible

turrible!
zOMG! the sky is falling chicken little!

a cheater contract and a super friendly 5.3m cap hit and an even friendly 2.1m hit if he retires at age 40, 3 years early

THE BRITISH ARE COMING!!!!

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01-17-2013, 01:15 AM
  #215
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It's turrible

turrible!
Its worse than "turrible." He will be 34 in a few months. Anyone really think that his best years are ahead of him? Haha. He is a headcase and not exactly the "best" teammate. It takes him 3 months to get in game shape (which btw is the whole season this year). Gillis wanted his ring NOW so he mortgaged the Nucks future for it. Even if they bought him out at the end of this year, they would have to pay Lu 27 million and it would still affect their cap until 2031. Some years the hit would be low but some years is will be millions. Go to Capgeek and take a look at how awful Lu's contract is (buyout or trade). With the cap reduction beginning next year (down to 63m) the nucks cant afford to even take on equal value for Lu. They have to sign 10 players for next year with little to no cap room. Lu cant be on the books, nor can his cap hit. They are completely hosed and all the GMs know it. His contract is untradable and Gillis knows it. The only goalie that the Nucks can trade this year is Cory. Don't be surprised is Cory goes in a surprise trade for a number 1 and a high prospect. Either way Luongo retires a Nuck even though the fans, Gillis and Luonge don't want it.

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01-17-2013, 01:16 AM
  #216
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zOMG! the sky is falling chicken little!

a cheater contract and a super friendly 5.3m cap hit and an even friendly 2.1m hit if he retires at age 40, 3 years early

THE BRITISH ARE COMING!!!!
How is 2.1m on your cap for a retired player "friendly"?

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01-17-2013, 01:23 AM
  #217
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How is 2.1m on your cap for a retired player "friendly"?
What does it matter if the cap is $80 mil by then?

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01-17-2013, 01:29 AM
  #218
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Its worse than "turrible." He will be 34 in a few months. Anyone really think that his best years are ahead of him? Haha. He is a headcase and not exactly the "best" teammate. It takes him 3 months to get in game shape (which btw is the whole season this year). Gillis wanted his ring NOW so he mortgaged the Nucks future for it. Even if they bought him out at the end of this year, they would have to pay Lu 27 million and it would still affect their cap until 2031. Some years the hit would be low but some years is will be millions. Go to Capgeek and take a look at how awful Lu's contract is (buyout or trade). With the cap reduction beginning next year (down to 63m) the nucks cant afford to even take on equal value for Lu. They have to sign 10 players for next year with little to no cap room. Lu cant be on the books, nor can his cap hit. They are completely hosed and all the GMs know it. His contract is untradable and Gillis knows it. The only goalie that the Nucks can trade this year is Cory. Don't be surprised is Cory goes in a surprise trade for a number 1 and a high prospect. Either way Luongo retires a Nuck even though the fans, Gillis and Luonge don't want it.
This is very bad research. The new CBA includes an amnesty clause for 2 contract buyouts. These buyouts will not count against the cap in any year and buyouts can be used within the next two summers. The cap will not decrease below 64.3 next year, also included in new CBA. Though Luongo will not be bought out, he would easily be picked up on waivers.

Your argument is laughable and full of holes.

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01-17-2013, 01:31 AM
  #219
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What does it matter if the cap is $80 mil by then?
That.

You got 6 good years of an elite goaltender at a cheater cap.

Tell me, if it's so horrible, why on earth did the new CBA specifically target these types of contracts?

if they're horrible, no one should care right? they're bad for business. Yet, they made it a sticking point to punish these cheater contracts.


2 million dollars when the cap is 80m +. you can't afford that? really?

12 forwards, 6 defenseman, 2 goalies is the bare minimum of a functioning NHL team. that's 20 people, I'll even give you 5 extras. 25 people

You're telling me, that for an 80 million dollar cap, you will spend more than an AVERAGE of 3 million per player? if you have 3 million dollar players playing on your 4th line, you're my hero.

3 million average per 25 players = 75 million. + 2.1 million for Luongo = 77.1 million, still 2.9 million under the cap.

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01-17-2013, 01:57 AM
  #220
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Its worse than "turrible." He will be 34 in a few months. Anyone really think that his best years are ahead of him? Haha. He is a headcase and not exactly the "best" teammate. It takes him 3 months to get in game shape (which btw is the whole season this year). Gillis wanted his ring NOW so he mortgaged the Nucks future for it. Even if they bought him out at the end of this year, they would have to pay Lu 27 million and it would still affect their cap until 2031. Some years the hit would be low but some years is will be millions. Go to Capgeek and take a look at how awful Lu's contract is (buyout or trade). With the cap reduction beginning next year (down to 63m) the nucks cant afford to even take on equal value for Lu. They have to sign 10 players for next year with little to no cap room. Lu cant be on the books, nor can his cap hit. They are completely hosed and all the GMs know it. His contract is untradable and Gillis knows it. The only goalie that the Nucks can trade this year is Cory. Don't be surprised is Cory goes in a surprise trade for a number 1 and a high prospect. Either way Luongo retires a Nuck even though the fans, Gillis and Luonge don't want it.
I'd gladly ignore this post and move on, but I don't want to give the idea you've bested us.

His "best years" might not be ahead of him, but his best and worst years are separated by the slimmest of margins. He's been stellar his whole career.

Headcase? Not a good teammate? Lies and slander, show me something, anything, that would demonstrate this.

Why on earth would Vancouver, let alone Toronto, buy out Luongo? He's one of three of our best players, and, IMHO, would be Toronto's best player and MVP.

We have demonstrated several times we can keep Lu next year, even with a decent raise for Edler.

I can't speak for Lu, but we fans would be happy if he stayed a Canuck, and Gillis just signed him to this contract. Schneider is a bonus, albeit that most of us called him getting this good. If he's moved instead, we'll deal with a better team then we have now, and a better return.

The rest of it is just baseless bashing with nothing else that can be demonstrated, proven or even argued.

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01-17-2013, 02:09 AM
  #221
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This is very bad research. The new CBA includes an amnesty clause for 2 contract buyouts. These buyouts will not count against the cap in any year and buyouts can be used within the next two summers. The cap will not decrease below 64.3 next year, also included in new CBA. Though Luongo will not be bought out, he would easily be picked up on waivers.

Your argument is laughable and full of holes.
To be fair to him its not really an argument.

Its akin to saying explosive diarrhea is like taking a really good dump.

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01-17-2013, 02:18 AM
  #222
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I'd gladly ignore this post and move on, but I don't want to give the idea you've bested us.

His "best years" might not be ahead of him, but his best and worst years are separated by the slimmest of margins. He's been stellar his whole career.

Headcase? Not a good teammate? Lies and slander, show me something, anything, that would demonstrate this.

Why on earth would Vancouver, let alone Toronto, buy out Luongo? He's one of three of our best players, and, IMHO, would be Toronto's best player and MVP.

We have demonstrated several times we can keep Lu next year, even with a decent raise for Edler.

I can't speak for Lu, but we fans would be happy if he stayed a Canuck, and Gillis just signed him to this contract. Schneider is a bonus, albeit that most of us called him getting this good. If he's moved instead, we'll deal with a better team then we have now, and a better return.

The rest of it is just baseless bashing with nothing else that can be demonstrated, proven or even argued.
Really? I highly doubt most fans ever thought Schneider would be this good. His numbers are unreal. If he can keep up similar, consistent statistics throughout an entire season I'll be so pumped. If he keeps up his play, he's top 3 in the league.

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01-17-2013, 02:24 AM
  #223
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I'd gladly ignore this post and move on, but I don't want to give the idea you've bested us.

His "best years" might not be ahead of him, but his best and worst years are separated by the slimmest of margins. He's been stellar his whole career.

Headcase? Not a good teammate? Lies and slander, show me something, anything, that would demonstrate this.

Why on earth would Vancouver, let alone Toronto, buy out Luongo? He's one of three of our best players, and, IMHO, would be Toronto's best player and MVP.

We have demonstrated several times we can keep Lu next year, even with a decent raise for Edler.

I can't speak for Lu, but we fans would be happy if he stayed a Canuck, and Gillis just signed him to this contract. Schneider is a bonus, albeit that most of us called him getting this good. If he's moved instead, we'll deal with a better team then we have now, and a better return.

The rest of it is just baseless bashing with nothing else that can be demonstrated, proven or even argued.
Good posts Cogburn.

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01-17-2013, 02:47 AM
  #224
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To tor- luongo , Raymond, Schroeder

To van: bozak, kadri, gunnarson.

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01-17-2013, 02:56 AM
  #225
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To tor- luongo , Raymond, Schroeder

To van: bozak, kadri, gunnarson.
Absolutely not.

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