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Zack Bogosian to Detroit

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Old
01-17-2013, 02:03 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
In comparison to Bogosian, it is.

It's like saying Gormley for Zetterberg. Gormley is an amazing prospect, but i'd consider him 'bits and pieces' in comparison to Zetterberg.
No it's not.

It's one thing to say you'd have to add something to Nyquist. It's another to say it's "Bits and pieces".

Potential star forward vs. potential number one defender. Bogosian may be better, but calling one "Bits and pieces" compared to the other is ridiculous.

Even more ridiculous was the suggestion that Detroit would have to add Smith and then call that the starting point.

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01-17-2013, 02:04 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
In comparison to Bogosian, it is.

It's like saying Gormley for Zetterberg. Gormley is an amazing prospect, but i'd consider him 'bits and pieces' in comparison to Zetterberg.
So one exceptional bounce back season to a guy with a ten year track record and a conn smythe, sure that is the example you want to go with?

I actually think Bogosian will continue on his track from last year, but that isn't what that would be like. You probably could have gone with Filppula, although surely Wings fans will fall back on his high 50 to 60 point pace he was on playing on a third line a couple years ago before injury.

It has to be Nyquist ++ for Jets fans to even consider it and even then some won't that is what I was wondering, found the value low myself.

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01-17-2013, 02:19 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
So is Big Buff going back to forward? At some point very soon Winnipeg will be forced to make a decision on one of Trouba, Buff and Bogosian. How many pairings in the top 4 can you name with two right handers? Heck in the history of the league how many have their been?

They might not do it now and Regner is probably off in total value I agree with that. But this idea that one of those three right handed d-man isn't going to hit the market at some point soon doesn't really scan with me. One of them can likely be had for the right package.
Or...we make one of them play the left side.

The reason those pairings aren't that common is because there simply aren't that many righties. They're in very high demand. Most teams have to force lefties into playing the right side. You should know as a Redwings fan and the amount of lefties you have. He doesn't HAVE to play the right side. None of them do.

Plus the Jets won't be making that move for years. Trouba will have to make his jump first. Likely does another year or 2 in college, maybe even gets AHL time. Then a year in the NHL, playing bottom pairing or getting rotated up. At that point who knows what the team looks like.

It's funny coming from a Redwings fan whose prospects take forever to make the big club and use a bunch of lefties that you expect the Jets to have to make a move soon.

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01-17-2013, 02:21 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
One of the Wings more plugged in media guys Art Regner posted a video blog on Fox Sports Detroit that hints the Wings are zeroing in on a long-time target.

http://www.foxsportsdetroit.com/01/1...07&feedID=3701

Ken Holland and Wings brass has never hid their desires for him, what is surprising to me at least is the package he believes will accomplish this.

Zach Bogosian

Gustav Nyquist

As much as Wings fans like Nyquist I would think they would have to do this. Of course it would make sense since they have seven d-man and would waive one assuming Bogosian is good to go with his wrist to send one back the other way, but we will see.

Would rather offer a package of Tatar, one of Kindl/White/Quincey and Pulkkinen/Andersson but just have a feeling Regner is off on the package just as I might be. Regner even hints they are trying for the real unlikely homerun on somehow trying to get Kane as well. Was surprised to hear it and expect Jets fans not to like it, but Regner is pretty well connected with Detroit brass and there is quite a history of chasing Bogosian in the rumor mills around Detroit. Nyquist would offer a dynamic forward to Winnipeg who is ready for a top 6 NHL role with them in my opinion.

Thoughts? What would the Jets really want from the Wings to make this trade?
not nearly enough going to the jets in the deal.

If Bogosion is in play I could see the oilers maybe offering some of their kids like MPS, Lander or somneone else or a package for a D-man, who is often maligned

but here are some staight stats

Bogosion is 6-3 215 good size for a d-man
he is able to play 20+ minutes a night and he look is he has turned the corner in his career

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01-17-2013, 02:26 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
not nearly enough going to the jets in the deal.

If Bogosion is in play I could see the oilers maybe offering some of their kids like MPS, Lander or somneone else or a package for a D-man, who is often maligned

but here are some staight stats

Bogosion is 6-3 215 good size for a d-man
he is able to play 20+ minutes a night and he look is he has turned the corner in his career
Those are measurables not stats. Ill say this isn't fair for Winnipeg as much as anyone but whoever said Detroits starting offer would have to be Smith + Nyquist + 1st is dumbest thing I've seen in awhile.

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01-17-2013, 02:29 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
Or...we make one of them play the left side.

The reason those pairings aren't that common is because there simply aren't that many righties. They're in very high demand. Most teams have to force lefties into playing the right side. You should know as a Redwings fan and the amount of lefties you have. He doesn't HAVE to play the right side. None of them do.

Plus the Jets won't be making that move for years. Trouba will have to make his jump first. Likely does another year or 2 in college, maybe even gets AHL time. Then a year in the NHL, playing bottom pairing or getting rotated up. At that point who knows what the team looks like.

It's funny coming from a Redwings fan whose prospects take forever to make the big club and use a bunch of lefties that you expect the Jets to have to make a move soon.
I asked a serious question how many right handed pairings can you name, I mean even historically they are rather rare? I know it is because right handers aren't common, but that also mean those guys are never really asked even in youth hockey to attempt it. Just a very rare sight outside of PP and I would be surprised to see someone try it.

I don't see a problem with a slow play as long as they have closed the loophole in the CBA and Trouba himself seems happy with the plan. But if wants to turn pro he is ready and I wouldn't tempt fate there, college players have a card to play themselves if they don't like the track you're giving them.

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01-17-2013, 02:31 AM
  #82
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BTW-if Detroit is looking for a good defensive defence man, who is smart, has leadership qualities and could mentor their youth, the Jets might offer up Hainsey, once Bogo is back from injury.That's the best you get. And the price might be Ouellett--current value for future potential.
Nonono. We're looking for a GOOD defenseman, not Ron Hainsey.

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01-17-2013, 02:36 AM
  #83
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If Bogosian was being shopped around, every other team would be competing to make the best offer.

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01-17-2013, 02:38 AM
  #84
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but for Detroit, this makes no sense value-wise. They have a number of prospects in Nyquist, Smith, and Tatar that would see significant jumps in value if they were given a shot at the NHL. To trade them before they establish themselves (and establish their value) would be extremely poor asset management.

and over what? Yeah, you get an upgrade on RD, but you might be able to sign one this offseason. Is one potentially bad season good enough reason to tear it all down? What are we, the Leafs?

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01-17-2013, 03:23 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by BamaWing View Post
Those are measurables not stats. Ill say this isn't fair for Winnipeg as much as anyone but whoever said Detroits starting offer would have to be Smith + Nyquist + 1st is dumbest thing I've seen in awhile.
nyquist straight for bogosion is one of the more sillier offers-- atleast i offered a former firsr rounf{younger then nyquist and better stats and Lander is could be like Tomas Steen with proper development)

Bogosion is a top 4 d-man who could quickly turn into a top 1 or 2 guy.

As for your claim tha B.SMith. Nyquist and a first for Bogosion is the dumbest thing you've seen in awhile-- This is where I get to suggest you have homer glasses on. Bogosion is a good D and is YOUNGER then the players and played more games in the NHL then the players you mentioned..

If the jets want to move Bogosion they could get A LOT more then just Nyquist. The only wild card is what his next contract looks like

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01-17-2013, 03:27 AM
  #86
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People are being real nutty with their comments about Nyquist. He's proven himself at every level of competition thus far, and the only reason he hasn't been in the NHL the last two years is because of Detroit's philosophy on developing prospects. Nyquist has the potential to be a strong two-way, first line winger. I'm frankly apprehensive at the notion of trading him simply because our offense is aging and we need him. But he's a great starting point for a trade for Bogosian. A 1 for 1 trade is obviously illogical. Bogosian is more proven and generally a potential franchise defenseman is worth than a potential first line winger. But this has the potential to be a starting point. However, I understand Jets fans not wanting to part with Bogosian at all, that much is completely understandable.

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01-17-2013, 03:32 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Cyborg Yzerman View Post
People are being real nutty with their comments about Nyquist. He's proven himself at every level of competition thus far, and the only reason he hasn't been in the NHL the last two years is because of Detroit's philosophy on developing prospects. Nyquist has the potential to be a strong two-way, first line winger. I'm frankly apprehensive at the notion of trading him simply because our offense is aging and we need him. But he's a great starting point for a trade for Bogosian. A 1 for 1 trade is obviously illogical. Bogosian is more proven and generally a potential franchise defenseman is worth than a potential first line winger. But this has the potential to be a starting point. However, I understand Jets fans not wanting to part with Bogosian at all, that much is completely understandable.
I am not a jets fan and I have seen Nyquist play, not saying he does not have potential--but Bogosian is able to play tough minutes and lots of minutes--he can easily do 20 to 25 a night and on most nights he did.

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01-17-2013, 03:35 AM
  #88
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I am not a jets fan and I have seen Nyquist play, not saying he does not have potential--but Bogosian is able to play tough minutes and lots of minutes--he can easily do 20 to 25 a night and on most nights he did.
Absolutely, he is worth more than Nyquist. However, Nyquist is a good starting piece considering his potential and probability of meeting said potential. People referred to Nyquist as "bits and pieces" which is simply an understatement.

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01-17-2013, 03:36 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Cyborg Yzerman View Post
People are being real nutty with their comments about Nyquist. He's proven himself at every level of competition thus far, and the only reason he hasn't been in the NHL the last two years is because of Detroit's philosophy on developing prospects. Nyquist has the potential to be a strong two-way, first line winger. I'm frankly apprehensive at the notion of trading him simply because our offense is aging and we need him. But he's a great starting point for a trade for Bogosian. A 1 for 1 trade is obviously illogical. Bogosian is more proven and generally a potential franchise defenseman is worth than a potential first line winger. But this has the potential to be a starting point. However, I understand Jets fans not wanting to part with Bogosian at all, that much is completely understandable.
This is where I stand.

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01-17-2013, 03:58 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Not that I agree with everything they say but on hockeysfuture which is connected to this.

14.) Smith
32.) Schiefele
38.) Nyquist
49.) Trouba

I have always been high on Trouba and find that way too low. In fact that is low as I have seen the last three listed. But they are not as far apart in the hockey world as you're stating even though the Jets guys are much younger. You're evaluating Wings prospects on actual pro accomplishmetns though on the flip side.

I have a hard time making the leap from them to Yakupov vs.Toffoli at any rate even if you demand the Jets prospects are better which I might grant. Smith and Nyquist are pretty decorated guys with wattage to their names also.
Couple extra details about those 4 guys you're comparing.

14.) Smith = 2007 draft eligible
32.) Schiefele = 2011 draft eligible
38.) Nyquist = 2007 draft eligible
49.) Trouba = 2012 draft eligible


Smith 23 y/o drafted 27th overall
Nyquist 23 y/o drafted 121st overall

Schiefele 19 y/o recently drafted 7th overall
Trouba 18 y/o recently drafted 9th overall


I only think it is fair to consider these points when making a direct comparison like you did.

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01-17-2013, 04:20 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Socratic Method Man View Post
Couple extra details about those 4 guys you're comparing.

14.) Smith = 2007 draft eligible
32.) Schiefele = 2011 draft eligible
38.) Nyquist = 2007 draft eligible
49.) Trouba = 2012 draft eligible


Smith 23 y/o drafted 27th overall
Nyquist 23 y/o drafted 121st overall

Schiefele 19 y/o recently drafted 7th overall
Trouba 18 y/o recently drafted 9th overall


I only think it is fair to consider these points when making a direct comparison like you did.
I'm not sure I can remember the last time Detroit brought up anybody under 21 for a full NHL season.

Either way, many have said Nyquist and Smith would've been NHLers on most other teams last year

EDIT: Also, allow me to make my own highlights.


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01-17-2013, 04:43 AM
  #92
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The guy in the video is clearly clued out. He's recycling an old rumor.

The Jets have absolutely no interest in moving Bogosian.

The organization has decided to build around him on the back end and still view him as a potential franchise defenceman, or at worst a consistent #1 guy.

The idea that the Jets have a log jam of RH defencemen is laughable. Trouba is at least 1 AHL season and 1-3 NHL seasons away from being able to play the minutes Bogosian did last year, and by that time Bogosian will be the undisputed #1 anyways.

Wings fans can argue over semantics until blue in the face, but the reality is Bogosian isn't on the table, and even if he was, the price would be much higher than any of them would be comfortable with.

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01-17-2013, 04:52 AM
  #93
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The guy in the video is clearly clued out. He's recycling an old rumor.

The Jets have absolutely no interest in moving Bogosian.

The organization has decided to build around him on the back end and still view him as a potential franchise defenceman, or at worst a consistent #1 guy.

The idea that the Jets have a log jam of RH defencemen is laughable. Trouba is at least 1 AHL season and 1-3 NHL seasons away from being able to play the minutes Bogosian did last year, and by that time Bogosian will be the undisputed #1 anyways.

Wings fans can argue over semantics until blue in the face, but the reality is Bogosian isn't on the table, and even if he was, the price would be much higher than any of them would be comfortable with.
I see Trouba spending another year in the NCAA system, then making the jump to the NHL. The only way he plays in the AHL is if there's another lockout, like Justin Schultz. Also, I want to mention that Trouba isn't eligible for the NCAA loophole, as someone alluded to.

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01-17-2013, 04:57 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by almostawake View Post
The guy in the video is clearly clued out. He's recycling an old rumor.

The Jets have absolutely no interest in moving Bogosian.

The organization has decided to build around him on the back end and still view him as a potential franchise defenceman, or at worst a consistent #1 guy.

The idea that the Jets have a log jam of RH defencemen is laughable. Trouba is at least 1 AHL season and 1-3 NHL seasons away from being able to play the minutes Bogosian did last year, and by that time Bogosian will be the undisputed #1 anyways.

Wings fans can argue over semantics until blue in the face, but the reality is Bogosian isn't on the table, and even if he was, the price would be much higher than any of them would be comfortable with.
Honestly, I don't see many Wings fans drooling over him. Obviously, he'd be a nice asset to have, but I don't think many are willing to pay what the Jets would ask.

I'd rather inquire about Bouwmeester, and if the Flames are asking too much, just wait until he's bought out.

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01-17-2013, 05:07 AM
  #95
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I'd like to have Bogo.. but not sure I would like to pay the price Jets would want.

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01-17-2013, 05:08 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by DespoticNewt View Post
I see Trouba spending another year in the NCAA system, then making the jump to the NHL. The only way he plays in the AHL is if there's another lockout, like Justin Schultz. Also, I want to mention that Trouba isn't eligible for the NCAA loophole, as someone alluded to.
I'd be pretty surprised to see any Jets prospects making the jump straight from the NCAA to the NHL. Not because of talent, but because the Jets know they have a good development program in St. John's.

Maybe a full season is too much, but I have a feeling a pattern will emerge of giving almost all prospects a 20-30 game stint with the Ice Caps to get them acclimatized to the pro game.

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01-17-2013, 05:11 AM
  #97
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LOL red wings prospects are so severely overrated I cant believe it.
I've been saying this for years. At one time the Wings were great at drafting because they looked for gems where nobody looked but now, every team does the same. The Datsyuks,Zetterbergs and Lidstroms are a thing of the past. Some people make this ridiculous argument that anything Detroit touches turns to gold and it's simply not true. They do bring up players in a great structure much like the Devils do but without high-end skill your prospects are nothing more than quantity.

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01-17-2013, 05:15 AM
  #98
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If Bogosian was made available, there would be a bidding war. The Flyers for one were rumored to be the team that offered two firsts a couple of years ago. They would put a better package of players as would other teams then just Nyquist.

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01-17-2013, 06:34 AM
  #99
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When i seen the thread I said wow, what would Detroit give up for him. Then i seen nyquist. You can't be serious. Any serious package from Detroit would start with Smith. Bogo would replace Subban for my habs. I would offer Plekanac, Weber and a second.

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01-17-2013, 06:37 AM
  #100
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Nyquist is good, but Bogo is the Jets' best defenseman. You don't trade one of your best roster players for just a good prospect. Not if you're trying to become competitive.

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