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01-17-2013, 08:44 AM
  #1
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Ken Holland less than confident

I heard Ken Holland on 97.1's Inside Hockeytown and he sounded like he was less than confident. When asked if the goal was still to win the cup we waffled and stuttered. He sounded apologetic and kept talking about parity. He mentioned over and over that we are competing with 30 teams now for talent and there isn't much to go around. Has Holland conceded that the run is over?

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01-17-2013, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schminksbro View Post
I heard Ken Holland on 97.1's Inside Hockeytown and he sounded like he was less than confident. When asked if the goal was still to win the cup we waffled and stuttered. He sounded apologetic and kept talking about parity. He mentioned over and over that we are competing with 30 teams now for talent and there isn't much to go around. Has Holland conceded that the run is over?
Holland has acted like this for years. Seems like ever since 2010 the management wasn't confident with how the Wings would finish and they blame it on parity.

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01-17-2013, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Holland has acted like this for years. Seems like ever since 2010 the management wasn't confident with how the Wings would finish and they blame it on parity.
yeah I understand the whole parity thing, but at this point its starting to seem like a cop out/excuse to me. Especially with the fact that we keep bringing back vets and are so scared to give some of the young guys a real shot it can get a bit frustrating with times.

I was hoping both Smith and Nyquist were full timers this year, but I feel like Nyquist isn't going to be a full timer this year anymore. Hopefully one of the oldies just flat out sucks this season that they basically play themselves off the lineup early so Gus can be here full time.

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01-17-2013, 08:57 AM
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Better to under-promise and have the opportunity to over-deliver than vice-versa.

I mean, by remaining non-committal, if you win it all you can say, "Deep down, we always knew we had a chance..."


Last edited by RedMenace: 01-17-2013 at 09:03 AM.
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01-17-2013, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Holland has acted like this for years. Seems like ever since 2010 the management wasn't confident with how the Wings would finish and they blame it on parity.
It seems to me that his tone reflects "Its outta my hands" these days when is used to be "Stanley or Bust". He definitely stopped shy of declaring the Wings as a contender.

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01-17-2013, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
Better to under-promise and have the opportunity to over-deliver than vice-versa.
I think he is trying to be as honest as he can in his position. Parity has gutted the franchise and he knows it. Personally I don't think this team will get another sniff of the cup for many years to come and I don't think Nyquist, Tatar, and Smith are the saviors.

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01-17-2013, 09:12 AM
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Defense speeches ya know.

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01-17-2013, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by schminksbro View Post
I think he is trying to be as honest as he can in his position. Parity has gutted the franchise and he knows it. Personally I don't think this team will get another sniff of the cup for many years to come and I don't think Nyquist, Tatar, and Smith are the saviors.
Unfortunately, some people don't appreciate honesty from people in his position.

Let's face it, what goes up must come down, and the Wings aren't destined to be a powerhouse forever. Nyquist, Tatar, and Smith might not be "saviors," but barring an epic and total collapse, they should at least help ensure the Wings remain somewhat competitive until some retirements and FA signings happen

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01-17-2013, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Holland has acted like this for years. Seems like ever since 2010 the management wasn't confident with how the Wings would finish and they blame it on parity.
If you had that super team like he did in 08-09, you'd be blaming parity too when you couldn't keep it together and had to resort to plugs.

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01-17-2013, 09:32 AM
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Holland still hasn't figured out that the way to a talent advantage in this league is to inject youth and hope they play above their paycheck. If you can replace $6 mil a year Rafalski with Smith on an entry level deal well that's a pretty effective way to manage costs and save for that big free agent.

Replace Hudler with Nyquist instead of Sammy; don't extend Bert and play Tatar.

Even if those guys aren't in your long term plans, by playing them they become tradable assets. Holland can't trade because our roster is composed of a few untouchables and recycled garbage.

As far as the run being over I think Babcock conceded that when he commented that going into the season last year they were unsure whether this team was good enough to make the playoffs.

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01-17-2013, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
If you had that super team like he did in 08-09, you'd be blaming parity too when you couldn't keep it together and had to resort to plugs.
I don't think he has had a "super team" since 2002. The 08 cup team was just a parity winner. The last mediocre team standing.

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01-17-2013, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by schminksbro View Post
I heard Ken Holland on 97.1's Inside Hockeytown and he sounded like he was less than confident. When asked if the goal was still to win the cup we waffled and stuttered. He sounded apologetic and kept talking about parity. He mentioned over and over that we are competing with 30 teams now for talent and there isn't much to go around. Has Holland conceded that the run is over?
It's just rhetoric dude. Holland, like most intelligent GMs, is only going to say what is expected. He isn't going to come out and say something that puts a target on his club's back or promises something that may never happen.

I've also seen quotes from him saying he thought this Wings team could be one of the best in the Western Conference again if things go well. And, if they struggle (which would be mostly on account of a weak defense IMO) then he'll have some work to do.

I love all these ultra pessimistic/optimistic comments when the Wings haven't even played one game yet. Let's watch a few before all you Holland haters start b******* again.

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01-17-2013, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by schminksbro View Post
I don't think he has had a "super team" since 2002. The 08 cup team was just a parity winner. The last mediocre team standing.
Get real, the 08' team was dominating.

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01-17-2013, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Hakan2Holland View Post
I love all these ultra pessimistic/optimistic comments when the Wings haven't even played one game yet. Let's watch a few before all you Holland haters start b******* again.
The Circle of HFLife

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01-17-2013, 09:51 AM
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It does get frustrating as a fan to watch Holland talk about parity and discuss how it's such an even playing field, blah blah blah. To see him saying that he's not sure if they'll make the playoffs, that's pretty frustrating simply because playoffs are something we definitely expect here in Detroit. It makes me feel like if he's not going to say we're a cup contender, then he hasn't done his job correctly.

Detroit isn't a team like Edmonton that has a young group yet to experience the playoffs. We have a veteran core, and if we're going to continue to roll with a veteran core, we are going to need to be competitive enough to make the playoffs and fight for the cup. If Holland isn't going to put together a team good enough to fight for the cup, then he's not doing his job correctly. If he can't even go onto a radio show and say that they absolutely expect playoffs, then there's something wrong with the team he has put together.

The last part is that if he's been saying this for a few years, you'd think he'd spend the last few years making actual moves to improve the roster so that he can feel more confident in the group's ability to win... what's the deal there?

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01-17-2013, 10:02 AM
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jesus you people overreact to everything

if he was shouting from the rooftops about the Wings winning the cup you guys would be in here *****ing about him being delusional

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01-17-2013, 10:14 AM
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I wonder how much influence Illich has.

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01-17-2013, 10:15 AM
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https://twitter.com/FSDwakiji/status/291603939080683521

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#RedWings Holland: If things go way we think they can, we can compete for best in the West.
Yup, this just screams lack of confidence

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01-17-2013, 10:25 AM
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It's all PR mumbo jumbo. Everytime the Wings lose in the playoffs, Holland brings up parity to hide his failures and inability to change his archaic team building approach.

Do nothing before the trade deadline = we like our team and the price was just too high
Sign no one during FA = we like our team
Get outbid on FA = price was too high and we like our team
Lose in the playoffs = blame injuries and talk about liking how the team looked during February.

That should cover the four primary excuses in the Ken Holland GM handbook.

Ignore anything that man says and use your eyes to judge this team.


Last edited by WingedWheel1987: 01-17-2013 at 10:32 AM.
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01-17-2013, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
if he was shouting from the rooftops about the Wings winning the cup you guys would be in here *****ing about him being delusional
Delusional, but his off season moves would make a lot more sense in that context.

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01-17-2013, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optimuspaul View Post
https://twitter.com/FSDwakiji/status/291603939080683521



Yup, this just screams lack of confidence
haha good call. Definitely makes a lot of us look silly.

I still stand by my comments that I'm tired of hearing Holland talk about parity. Dude needs to stop coming up with excuses as to why his team isn't already a favorite to win. If he could have made a big trade/signing and actually spent time improving the roster instead of just signing a guy like White or a guy like Samuelsson, maybe he'd actually be able to shut up about the parity and talk about how the team is going to be better than it was last year.

That's where my problem comes in. I want him to stop feeling like that's a valid excuse to use, because it really isn't.

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01-17-2013, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by icKx View Post
Holland still hasn't figured out that the way to a talent advantage in this league is to inject youth and hope they play above their paycheck. If you can replace $6 mil a year Rafalski with Smith on an entry level deal well that's a pretty effective way to manage costs and save for that big free agent.

Replace Hudler with Nyquist instead of Sammy; don't extend Bert and play Tatar.

Even if those guys aren't in your long term plans, by playing them they become tradable assets. Holland can't trade because our roster is composed of a few untouchables and recycled garbage.

As far as the run being over I think Babcock conceded that when he commented that going into the season last year they were unsure whether this team was good enough to make the playoffs.
While 'garbage' might be a tad harsh, this pretty much sums up how I see things.

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01-17-2013, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
It's all PR mumbo jumbo. Everytime the Wings lose in the playoffs, Holland brings up parity to hide his failures and inability to change his archaic team building approach.

Do nothing before the trade deadline = we like our team and the price was just too high
Sign no one during FA = we like our team
Get outbid on FA = price was too high and we like our team
Lose in the playoffs = blame injuries and talk about liking how the team looked during February.

That should cover the four primary excuses in the Ken Holland GM handbook.

Ignore anything that man says and use your eyes to judge this team.
That's what drives me so insane. You don't see teams like LA and New York complaining about the prices being high. New York found a way to grab Gaborik, to sign Richards. They found a way to acquire Nash, and are they really going around complaining that they had to overpay for Nash? LA acquired Richards, and then went off and acquired Carter as well. Now they have two really talented forwards on long term deals at affordable cap hits for them, and now they have a Stanley Cup to back it up.

Meanwhile, Holland sits back and lets Tatar and Nyquist play in the AHL instead of moving NHL pieces to get them up where they belong, or packaging the two of them in a deal to acquire a top forward that they've been trying to find for 3 years, or a top d-man to address the lack of talent on the backend... and then he says that the league is too close now to stay above the pack. No, you chose to be where you are. It was your decision not to make the proper moves for success.

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01-17-2013, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
Better to under-promise and have the opportunity to over-deliver than vice-versa.

I mean, by remaining non-committal, if you win it all you can say, "Deep down, we always knew we had a chance..."
Great point.

We should fire Holland and hire Feaster so he can pump up the fanbase with guarantees every year. It's funny how certain things catch on with the Wings fanbase and snowballs. Holland is archaic, Franzen sucks, etc.

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01-17-2013, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Kyleftlx View Post
That's what drives me so insane. You don't see teams like LA and New York complaining about the prices being high. New York found a way to grab Gaborik, to sign Richards. They found a way to acquire Nash, and are they really going around complaining that they had to overpay for Nash? LA acquired Richards, and then went off and acquired Carter as well. Now they have two really talented forwards on long term deals at affordable cap hits for them, and now they have a Stanley Cup to back it up.

Meanwhile, Holland sits back and lets Tatar and Nyquist play in the AHL instead of moving NHL pieces to get them up where they belong, or packaging the two of them in a deal to acquire a top forward that they've been trying to find for 3 years, or a top d-man to address the lack of talent on the backend... and then he says that the league is too close now to stay above the pack. No, you chose to be where you are. It was your decision not to make the proper moves for success.
When Holland gets outbid on Perry, Getzlaf and Edler, he will have those excuses all lined up.

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