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01-17-2013, 08:37 AM
  #776
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
I'll agree with you here. I think the biggest problem is Meehan. I can't stand the guy.
Well, he thinks he's got the management by the balls : he's negotiating the contract of the most popular player and most marketable player in a post lock-out context, with crazy fans and media and he's facing a rookie GM.

He thinks he can get what/all he wants.

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01-17-2013, 08:39 AM
  #777
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Well, he thinks he's got the management by the balls : he's negotiating the contract of the most popular player and most marketable player in a post lock-out context, with crazy fans and media and he's facing a rookie GM.

He thinks he can get what/all he wants. He's gonna keep the hard line till the last minute.
Let's not get into hyperbole. He doesn't think he can get all he wants, but he certainly think he has the advantage.

If he got all he want, we'd have 10 years at 10M/yr

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01-17-2013, 08:43 AM
  #778
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Originally Posted by IWalkThroughWalls View Post
Well, he thinks he's got the management by the balls : he's negotiating the contract of the most popular player and most marketable player in a post lock-out context, with crazy fans and media and he's facing a rookie GM.

He thinks he can get what/all he wants.
Well, he kind of does...forget who PK Subban is off the ice and what he represents in terms of popularity.

Just look at how the Habs, themselves, have used PK the last 2 years...

Does that look like a player who should be making less money than anyother defensman on this team?

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01-17-2013, 08:44 AM
  #779
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I just had a moment of clarity about the PK situation, not sure if something similar has been said or not cuz I haven't read through this whole thread but anyways, I understand PK trying to compare himself to other contracts that have been signed but fact is he has to stop thinking about what has already been done, with a new cap next year teams need to spend wisely and the club is just trying to do exactly that. Players are going to have to get used to getting less then in the past.

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01-17-2013, 08:48 AM
  #780
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Originally Posted by HabbyGilmore View Post
I just had a moment of clarity about the PK situation, not sure if something similar has been said or not cuz I haven't read through this whole thread but anyways, I understand PK trying to compare himself to other contracts that have been signed but fact is he has to stop thinking about what has already been done, with a new cap next year teams need to spend wisely and the club is just trying to do exactly that. Players are going to have to get used to getting less then in the past.
Seems to me they're are trying to nickel & dime their most used and important defensman (based on THEIR own utilisation of him)

Though, I don't have all the details...so probaly not a fair assessment.

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01-17-2013, 08:49 AM
  #781
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Originally Posted by HabbyGilmore View Post
I just had a moment of clarity about the PK situation, not sure if something similar has been said or not cuz I haven't read through this whole thread but anyways, I understand PK trying to compare himself to other contracts that have been signed but fact is he has to stop thinking about what has already been done, with a new cap next year teams need to spend wisely and the club is just trying to do exactly that. Players are going to have to get used to getting more then in the past.
A false moment of clarity.

The cap was:

2005-06 - 39.0
2006-07 - 44.0
2007-08 - 50.3
2008-09 - 56.7
2009-10 - 56.8
2010-11 - 59.4
2011-12 - 64.3
2012-13 - 70.2 (really 60 million but prorated up to 70.2 million)
2013-14 - 64.3

Most of the players PK is being compared to, such as Mike Green and Alexander Edler, signed their second contracts when the cap was lower than it is now. Further, there's no reason the cap should stop rising by 8%/year, as owners raise ticket prices every single year. The cap can easily be at 75 million by 2015-2016.

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01-17-2013, 08:51 AM
  #782
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Who's behing 25stanley twitter account because he really seems clueless

25stanley ‏@25stanley
#habspotted // Marc Bergevin was on a flight Halifax to Montreal early this morning. #habs GM was on the phone with Jordan Subban.

Bergevin was at the prospect game yesterday..... not on the phone with subban's younger brother..

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01-17-2013, 08:53 AM
  #783
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
A false moment of clarity.

The cap was:

2005-06 - 39.0
2006-07 - 44.0
2007-08 - 50.3
2008-09 - 56.7
2009-10 - 56.8
2010-11 - 59.4
2011-12 - 64.3
2012-13 - 70.2 (really 60 million but prorated up to 70.2 million)
2013-14 - 64.3

Most of the players PK is being compared to, such as Mike Green and Alexander Edler, signed their second contracts when the cap was lower than it is now. Further, there's no reason the cap should stop rising by 8%/year, as owners raise ticket prices every single year. The cap can easily be at 75 million by 2015-2016.
Are you factoring in the end of "make whole" after 2013-14? Here are Mirtle's projections (albeit at 5% growth).

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01-17-2013, 09:01 AM
  #784
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Are you factoring in the end of "make whole" after 2013-14? Here are Mirtle's projections (albeit at 5% growth).
Thank you for the corrections.

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01-17-2013, 09:10 AM
  #785
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Originally Posted by HabbyGilmore View Post
I just had a moment of clarity about the PK situation, not sure if something similar has been said or not cuz I haven't read through this whole thread but anyways, I understand PK trying to compare himself to other contracts that have been signed but fact is he has to stop thinking about what has already been done, with a new cap next year teams need to spend wisely and the club is just trying to do exactly that. Players are going to have to get used to getting less then in the past.
Right, let's skim down on our best player's contract. Guys like Prust? Let's give them a million and 2 years more than they should receive. Smart.

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Old
01-17-2013, 09:16 AM
  #786
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KGB said it best....


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Old
01-17-2013, 09:17 AM
  #787
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
Even if it means PK gets frustrated and doesn't play up to the standards we're hoping? I hope Bergevin ditches his plastic guns on this one. Not sure holding them helps in any way. The CBA is ratified and the opportunity to regulate those contracts is gone, live with it.
If Pk gets frustrated and doesnt play up to the standards then it's a player I don't want in the organisation, as it would be pretty selfish and immature.

Bergevin wants to give short term contracts before giving the long term ones, just like Price went through and Paciorretty, that's it. Subban has to wait for his turn, and that's why I want Bergevin to hold his case even though it means PK misses a good part of the season. He's the new GM in town, this case is very important, it will set the standards for negociation afterwards.

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01-17-2013, 09:20 AM
  #788
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Originally Posted by Malakhov View Post
If Pk gets frustrated and doesnt play up to the standards then it's a player I don't want in the organisation, as it would be pretty selfish and immature.

Bergevin wants to give short term contracts before giving the long term ones, just like Price went through and Paciorretty, that's it. Subban has to wait for his turn, and that's why I want Bergevin to hold his case even though it means PK misses a good part of the season. He's the new GM in town, this case is very important, it will set the standards for negociation afterwards.
And as established many, many, many times in this thread, Subban is in a much better bargaining position than Price or Pacioretty were when they signed their bridge contract.

Subban already proved himself to the club he's reliable on the top pairing. The only thing he hasn't proved is that he is a true star; but the best is still to come.

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01-17-2013, 09:22 AM
  #789
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Originally Posted by Malakhov View Post
If Pk gets frustrated and doesnt play up to the standards then it's a player I don't want in the organisation, as it would be pretty selfish and immature.

Bergevin wants to give short term contracts before giving the long term ones, just like Price went through and Paciorretty, that's it. Subban has to wait for his turn, and that's why I want Bergevin to hold his case even though it means PK misses a good part of the season. He's the new GM in town, this case is very important, it will set the standards for negociation afterwards.
If Alex Galchenyuk becomes our no. 1 center the way Subban became our no. 1 dman;

If Alex Galchenyuk plays 20 minutes a night in all situations, PP, ES, and PK;

If Alex Galchenyuk becomes a top-20 offensive center this early in his career and scores an averge of 65 points over the following two seasons;

Bergevin should offer him 2 years @ 3.25 million per in the summer of 2015.

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01-17-2013, 09:31 AM
  #790
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
If Alex Galchenyuk becomes our no. 1 center the way Subban became our no. 1 dman;

If Alex Galchenyuk plays 20 minutes a night in all situations, PP, ES, and PK;

If Alex Galchenyuk becomes a top-20 offensive center this early in his career and scores an averge of 65 points over the following two seasons;

Bergevin should offer him 2 years @ 3.25 million per in the summer of 2015.
But Galchenyuk wouldn't have PK's attitude, though, right?

Ahhhh, maybe some of you should realise that this is probably a concern for the Habs brass. They want to sign PK for a short term contract and see from there. Will he mature, will he be a good teammate, will he run his mouth a bit less?

Lots of factors in this case and like I said, I want Bergevin to stand his ground on this.

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01-17-2013, 09:33 AM
  #791
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But Galchenyuk wouldn't have PK's attitude, though, right?

Ahhhh, maybe some of you should realise that this is probably a concern for the Habs brass. They want to sign PK for a short term contract and see from there. Will he mature, will he be a good teammate, will he run his mouth a bit less?

Lots of factors in this case and like I said, I want Bergevin to stand his ground on this.
This is BS and you know it !

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01-17-2013, 09:35 AM
  #792
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Originally Posted by Malakhov View Post
But Galchenyuk wouldn't have PK's attitude, though, right?

Ahhhh, maybe some of you should realise that this is probably a concern for the Habs brass. They want to sign PK for a short term contract and see from there. Will he mature, will he be a good teammate, will he run his mouth a bit less?

Lots of factors in this case and like I said, I want Bergevin to stand his ground on this.
What attitude?


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01-17-2013, 09:37 AM
  #793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
This is BS and you know it !
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
What attitude?


It's how people perceive him. He's flashy, he's flamboyant, he likes to talk, he likes to have attention. I just think it rubs some people in the wrong way. I can see teammates and other people of the organisation that doesn't like this.

10 years ago and he would of already been traded by the Habs, at least they've changed a little

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01-17-2013, 09:42 AM
  #794
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It's how people perceive him. He's flashy, he's flamboyant, he likes to talk, he likes to have attention. I just think it rubs some people in the wrong way.
And what the **** does this have to do with his performance on the ice ?

Guys like Brad Marchand and Lappy run their mouths off.

Keith Acton made a career of being yappy. So do Ryan Miller, Dustin Byfuglien, Dion Phaneuf and Chris Pronger.

So please give up the annoying titles you have given to PK just like RDS did in his first year.

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01-17-2013, 09:43 AM
  #795
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Originally Posted by Malakhov View Post
It's how people perceive him. He's flashy, he's flamboyant, he likes to talk, he likes to have attention. I just think it rubs some people in the wrong way. I can see teammates and other people of the organisation that doesn't like this.10 years ago and he would of already been traded by the Habs, at least they've changed a little
Typical hockey mentality...if you're not a drone or give the same robotic answers during interviews. It means you've got an attitude problem

I hope PK never changes, his attitude is refreshing...just because people don't understand it, doesn't mean it's bad

The other day, Mathieu Darche spoke about supposed attitude problems with PK...and he basically said it couldn't be further from the truth

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01-17-2013, 09:45 AM
  #796
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But Galchenyuk wouldn't have PK's attitude, though, right?

Ahhhh, maybe some of you should realise that this is probably a concern for the Habs brass. They want to sign PK for a short term contract and see from there. Will he mature, will he be a good teammate, will he run his mouth a bit less?

Lots of factors in this case and like I said, I want Bergevin to stand his ground on this.
That's absolutely stupid. That mouth of his have gotten other players off their games. All they're thinking about is getting back at PK, and they can't. He is so good at reading the play and so avoid hits very well, when he does get hit, he's great at protecting himself from big damage. Not only that, but thanks to his skating, he makes players chase him but they never catch up to him. One of his strong skill is how he uses his own net as a protective shield when players chase him.
Some people just don't realize how special this kid is. They really don't.
The only reason he might have calmed down on the talking was because there was nobody on the team to protect his battles, he becomes a target and nobody to help him out. Now though, Bouillon, Prust, Armstrong, White are all guys that can scrap and stand up for their teammates (not only can they do it, but it's a big reason why they're here too). Their presence will also make Moen much more comfortable taking on opponents too.
What next, will Emelin have to stop dishing out bone crushing hits because he can't fight due to his jaw issues?

Also, PK is the first to jump in and defend a teammate if he has too. He is a great teammate to have. Will he mature? Why wouldn't he? You want to wait for the cap to go down next year, then back up a bit, mature, solidify his role, and then ask for more cash under a lower team cap? Sure, that makes sense..

This kid is your best player. There's no question how good he is, and really, there's very little doubt as to how good he can be. If he just keeps up what he's doing, and doesn't progress, he's a 4-5M Dman. So, sign him now, to a longer term, it'll only be beneficial to us.

But what's this bad attitude he has? The only time I hear this is old farts running their mouths. Not one of his teammates ever said something bad, he said he needed to mature a bit. Wow, surprise surprise, an early 20s kid needs to mature. This is absolutely unheard of.

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01-17-2013, 09:47 AM
  #797
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Everyone has their opinions. I believe if PK had the same attitude and maturity as someone like Galchenyuk has, I think he'd be signed by now.

Like I said, everyone has their opinions. But I think is is one of many factors in this case, especially from within an organisation like the Habs.

On ice performance is not everything for them, we've seen it in the past with Carbonneau, Chelios etc... They would of never been traded for the stupid reasons they were traded in another organisation.

Edit: And not so long ago, Cammalleri

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01-17-2013, 09:54 AM
  #798
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I look at this as interesting from a macro view (league-wide) rather than our local micro view (team-wide) where we are too concerned about personality and short-term implications - understandable as those concerns may be.

That said, the micro view of team salary structure, and how this puzzle piece fits into a descending cap and the salary of team mates is very relevant.

But from a macro view, I think a lot of the delay is about what kind of precedent this is setting, in terms of the second contract and RFAs, especially for a top team player. Bergevin seems to be principled in terms of having a second RFA contract and to buy UFA years later, Subban's management seems principled in terms of the pre-cap reduction paradigm of buying UFA years now, and this is something which will set a lot of comparables across the league. That kind of paradigm differential doesn't scare me too much, as long as short term pain now results in the right long-term decision being made.

Some blog posited that this is the agency's attempt (Benn, O'Reilly, Subban) to blow open the RFA offer sheet market, which is interesting -- and THAT I find frightening!

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01-17-2013, 09:54 AM
  #799
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Everyone has their opinions. I believe if PK had the same attitude and maturity as someone like Galchenyuk has, I think he'd be signed by now.

Like I said, everyone has their opinions. But I think is is one of many factors in this case, especially from within an organisation like the Habs.

On ice performance is not everything for them, we've seen it in the past with Carbonneau, Chelios etc... They would of never been traded for the stupid reasons they were traded in another organisation.
You're talking about Personality, not attitude or maturity. Gally hasn't even played one game in the NHL. He's an 18yo kid, that actually played versus young pro players for the first time in his career during the WJC. Let's see where he's at after his ELC.
If he has great years and doesn't want a bridge contract because he was used as the #1 centerman for two years, what will you say then?

Your opinion is based on other people's (mainly old farts) speculations or opinions, not facts. Morons spread crap about PK, and you just eat it up.

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01-17-2013, 09:59 AM
  #800
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Personally I see PK's personality as a plus.

He plays hard during practice, he hates losing, he makes fun videos for youtube, and he enjoys time in the media, see his weather service, and he has the balls to go for great, ambitious moves during the game.

I'll take that over some dumbass who drones on about "giving 110%" in pre-game interviews.

What we need are players who grab life by the balls, not robots.

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