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P.K Subban Thread 2.0

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01-17-2013, 10:00 AM
  #801
Uber Coca
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People saying Bergevin should pay Subban whatever price he wants shouldn't quit their daytime jobs to become a GM. It would be quite irresponsible for Bergevin given the new CBA. His job is to get the best deal out of his best defenseman in order to build a decent team and have enough cap space for the future.

Negociation is part of the process, and it was to be expected since Bergevin wants flexibility in the future.

Also, I've been hearing a lot of comments on Subban's attitude from Crête and McGuire. PK Subban has the right to mature and needs to do it, while his teammates should let him mature and be professionnal about it.

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01-17-2013, 10:01 AM
  #802
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Originally Posted by Malakhov View Post
Everyone has their opinions. I believe if PK had the same attitude and maturity as someone like Galchenyuk has, I think he'd be signed by now. Like I said, everyone has their opinions. But I think is is one of many factors in this case, especially from within an organisation like the Habs.

On ice performance is not everything for them, we've seen it in the past with Carbonneau, Chelios etc... They would of never been traded for the stupid reasons they were traded in another organisation.

Edit: And not so long ago, Cammalleri
Well I believe if PK Subban was 'different' in alot of ways...he wouldn't be continually attacked for his attitude as much as he is

But that's a whole other debate

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01-17-2013, 10:05 AM
  #803
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Some blog posited that this is the agency's attempt (Benn, O'Reilly, Subban) to blow open the RFA offer sheet market, which is interesting -- and THAT I find frightening!
I believe an offer sheet paying between 5.55 and 7.44 million, approximately, would net the Habs a meager 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round draft choice. I'm surprised a team like the Flyers has not done so already.

It'd be a good move for Boston, Toronto, Ottawa or Buffalo to make, as the worst-case scenario for them would be to ruin the salary cap structure of their divisional competitor.

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01-17-2013, 10:06 AM
  #804
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Well, he kind of does...forget who PK Subban is off the ice and what he represents in terms of popularity.

Just look at how the Habs, themselves, have used PK the last 2 years...

Does that look like a player who should be making less money than anyother defensman on this team?
thats actually i really good point cause i think PK is more than just our #1 D. He's the heart of the team and he's doing what every kid in this city dreams of. Grows up cheering for the team and hopes to one day play for this team.

but if i may play devils advocate here, (cause i like your point), even though the habs use pk for his popularity for marketing and stuff, does a team like the montreal canadiens actually need him to make money? If this was any other team outside montreal and toronto, i'd say yes but reality is they could use tom pyatt as a poster boy and they'd have no problem

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01-17-2013, 10:07 AM
  #805
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I believe an offer sheet paying between 5.55 and 7.44 million, approximately, would net the Habs a meager 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round draft choice. I'm surprised a team like the Flyers has not done so already.

It'd be a good move for Boston, Toronto, Ottawa or Buffalo to make, as the worst-case scenario for them would be to ruin the salary cap structure of their divisional competitor.
Most of those teams can't fit that in to their cap this year or next year when the cap is 64.3 M.

Only Ottawa could do it by my count.

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01-17-2013, 10:09 AM
  #806
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I believe an offer sheet paying between 5.55 and 7.44 million, approximately, would net the Habs a meager 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round draft choice. I'm surprised a team like the Flyers has not done so already.

It'd be a good move for Boston, Toronto, Ottawa or Buffalo to make, as the worst-case scenario for them would be to ruin the salary cap structure of their divisional competitor.
Boston has no cap space this year...and 6 mil next year with no goalie and a few key players not signed.

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01-17-2013, 10:09 AM
  #807
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thats actually i really good point cause i think PK is more than just our #1 D. He's the heart of the team and he's doing what every kid in this city dreams of. Grows up cheering for the team and hopes to one day play for this team.

but if i may play devils advocate here, (cause i like your point), even though the habs use pk for his popularity for marketing and stuff, does a team like the montreal canadiens actually need him to make money? If this was any other team outside montreal and toronto, i'd say yes but reality is they could use tom pyatt as a poster boy and they'd have no problem
I was referring more to how they use him ON the ice...not how they're market him off of it, because he does a pretty good job of that himself lol

But the Habs have used PK Subban the last 2 years like a #1 dman, partly because of injuries but also because they felt he deserved it.

Just like they richly rewarded Josh Gorges, I think it's only normal they should do the same with PK Subban.

I get why they're hesitant to commit long term money to him...but it contradicts what message they're sending to him ON the ice.

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01-17-2013, 10:13 AM
  #808
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And what the **** does this have to do with his performance on the ice ?

Guys like Brad Marchand and Lappy run their mouths off.

Keith Acton made a career of being yappy. So do Ryan Miller, Dustin Byfuglien, Dion Phaneuf and Chris Pronger.

So please give up the annoying titles you have given to PK just like RDS did in his first year.
The ice is not the problem. It's the locker room and how some of his teammates find him really annoying. He's a great player but **** is he annoying.

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01-17-2013, 10:14 AM
  #809
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Most of those teams can't fit that in to their cap this year or next year when the cap is 64.3 M.

Only Ottawa could do it by my count.
Doesn't negate my point, I'm sure there are plenty of teams around the league that would benefit from Subban at 5.55 million, or even less than that at which point compensation would drop.

There's also a few dozen compliance buyouts potentially coming up this summer, so let's not speculate on what teams can and cannot do.

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01-17-2013, 10:14 AM
  #810
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Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
The ice is not the problem. It's the locker room and how some of his teammates find him really annoying. He's a great player but **** is he annoying.
That's odd because Mathieu Darche said the opposite on RDS the other day...

Does he need to mature? Sure, but that's the case for 95% of young players entering the league.

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01-17-2013, 10:21 AM
  #811
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Subban has to put his act together if he wants to play on opening day...

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01-17-2013, 10:21 AM
  #812
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Don't mean to interrupt the debate, but anyone know the latest on actual negotiations? Where they stand right now?

Don't really have time to read through the thread ATM.

Thanks.

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01-17-2013, 10:22 AM
  #813
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IF Subban hits jackpot contract, it could be burden to him. He is still just a kid with great potential. Nothing more.

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01-17-2013, 10:23 AM
  #814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Well, he kind of does...forget who PK Subban is off the ice and what he represents in terms of popularity.

Just look at how the Habs, themselves, have used PK the last 2 years...

Does that look like a player who should be making less money than anyother defensman on this team?
by this logic we should have given pacioretty 7.358 Million. Markov/Kaberle are stupid contracts.. let's be honest.. and I will gladly up Josh Gorges 3.9 to 3.95 and sign on the dotted line.

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01-17-2013, 10:24 AM
  #815
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Originally Posted by Mathradio View Post
Subban has to put his act together if he wants to play on opening day...
Even if he signs today he's not playing

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01-17-2013, 10:24 AM
  #816
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Don't mean to interrupt the debate, but anyone know the latest on actual negotiations? Where they stand right now?

Don't really have time to read through the thread ATM.

Thanks.
Not much news official out there, they have not met in a couple of days and aren't close to a deal.

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01-17-2013, 10:24 AM
  #817
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I was referring more to how they use him ON the ice...not how they're market him off of it, because he does a pretty good job of that himself lol

But the Habs have used PK Subban the last 2 years like a #1 dman, partly because of injuries but also because they felt he deserved it.

Just like they richly rewarded Josh Gorges, I think it's only normal they should do the same with PK Subban.

I get why they're hesitant to commit long term money to him...but it contradicts what message they're sending to him ON the ice.
thats the thing i think bergevin is in a tough position
you've relied on him as a #1 defenseman but at the same time, it would be risky to commit that long to him this soon in his career. I think he sees how burned the previous management team got with situations where they over commited, but i personally think, the risk is way lower than the reward so give him his time and money

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01-17-2013, 10:26 AM
  #818
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Originally Posted by Mathradio View Post
Subban has to put his act together if he wants to play on opening day...
I think we can pretty much forget about him playing Saturday night right now even if a deal gets done today

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01-17-2013, 10:26 AM
  #819
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Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
Not much news official out there, they have not met in a couple of days and aren't close to a deal.
Thank you.

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01-17-2013, 10:26 AM
  #820
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Originally Posted by cjbhab View Post
by this logic we should have given pacioretty 7.358 Million.
Not really...no one played heavier and more difficult minutes than Subban last year

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01-17-2013, 10:29 AM
  #821
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I was referring more to how they use him ON the ice...not how they're market him off of it, because he does a pretty good job of that himself lol

But the Habs have used PK Subban the last 2 years like a #1 dman, partly because of injuries but also because they felt he deserved it.

Just like they richly rewarded Josh Gorges, I think it's only normal they should do the same with PK Subban.

I get why they're hesitant to commit long term money to him...but it contradicts what message they're sending to him ON the ice.
I also think you were making a good point, but the issue of transitional contracts is one that the org. is committed to enforcing and I like it. You have to earn your stripes, no matter who you are or how well you played. If you're a young player coming out of your ELC, you need to first go through the process of giving the team one contract (that is SIGNIFICANTLY higher than your last!) to show your commitment to being a part of the whole. Yes, PK has been a beast for us, but he's by no means perfect and shouldn't think that he is. He is a fan fav. for many reasons including he's always speaking well of Montreal, about how he's always wanted to play here, how he wants to win, how he knows he needs to grow. Well then he needs to put his money (or demand for it) where his mouth is. Gorges had a similar situation, although IMO he had already been through a transitional one (combining SJ and MTL) and he understood that the club wanted to see how he was after surgery. He got what he deserved in the end. Same with Price. Patches is not a fan favourite? He's the poster child of our offense! Yet he is incredibly mature about the process and I think he cares way more about becoming a better hockey player than money (granted he's got a good second sports-related stream of income).

Last thing I want to see from PK is the attitude that is embodied by that picture Kane tweeted. I respect a hockey player who wants to prove himself and also...enough with the ridiculous amounts of making it rain (and raining hard). Just play!

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01-17-2013, 10:30 AM
  #822
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Not really...no one played heavier and more difficult minutes than Subban last year
Price

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01-17-2013, 10:31 AM
  #823
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Doesn't negate my point, I'm sure there are plenty of teams around the league that would benefit from Subban at 5.55 million, or even less than that at which point compensation would drop.

There's also a few dozen compliance buyouts potentially coming up this summer, so let's not speculate on what teams can and cannot do.
Lots of teams have internal budgets and have spent to it for this season though...not every team spends to the cap.

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01-17-2013, 10:36 AM
  #824
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I also think you were making a good point, but the issue of transitional contracts is one that the org. is committed to enforcing and I like it. You have to earn your stripes, no matter who you are or how well you played. If you're a young player coming out of your ELC, you need to first go through the process of giving the team one contract (that is SIGNIFICANTLY higher than your last!) to show your commitment to being a part of the whole. Yes, PK has been a beast for us, but he's by no means perfect and shouldn't think that he is. He is a fan fav. for many reasons including he's always speaking well of Montreal, about how he's always wanted to play here, how he wants to win, how he knows he needs to grow. Well then he needs to put his money (or demand for it) where his mouth is. Gorges had a similar situation, although IMO he had already been through a transitional one (combining SJ and MTL) and he understood that the club wanted to see how he was after surgery. He got what he deserved in the end. Same with Price. Patches is not a fan favourite? He's the poster child of our offense! Yet he is incredibly mature about the process and I think he cares way more about becoming a better hockey player than money (granted he's got a good second sports-related stream of income).

Last thing I want to see from PK is the attitude that is embodied by that picture Kane tweeted. I respect a hockey player who wants to prove himself and also...enough with the ridiculous amounts of making it rain (and raining hard). Just play!
I have no issue with either sides position, i've states many times...I don't think anyone is right or wrong and I don't find it necessary to choose sides. This is the business side of sports and I don't personally feel it's my place to say how someone, in this case PK Subban, should earn a living. Neither is it my place to comment on how MB and the Habs see their salary structure.

Both parties positions should be respected, this is part of a process...a process that I wish fans weren't privy too.

As far as PK showing commitment to the Habs, I agree...but it should also be some reciprocity on that end.

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01-17-2013, 10:37 AM
  #825
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Price
Oh yeah...how could I 'forget'

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