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American Prospect Update Thread (Part 2)

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Old
01-17-2013, 01:15 AM
  #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razor ray View Post
After winning the World Juniors, as well as reviewing hockey enrollement in the USA, I'm really surprised how few Americans are in the top part of the ranking. In the Midterm Ranking for the North Americans Skaters here is what is looks like for the top 40:

#1 Jones
#13 Ernie
#20 Compher
#21 McCoshen
#25 Hartman
#28 Lodge
#31 McCarron
#32 Hurley
#36 Pesce
#37 Bailey

Of the top 19 players:
15 Canadians
2 Americans
2 International

To me having only 2 Americans in the top 19 is really not that great. It seems like the last few drafts the American numbers for top tier players is getting worse, not better.

Well one factor to consider is that only two of those listed players were on the gold medal team.

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01-17-2013, 11:11 AM
  #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razor ray View Post
After winning the World Juniors, as well as reviewing hockey enrollement in the USA, I'm really surprised how few Americans are in the top part of the ranking. In the Midterm Ranking for the North Americans Skaters here is what is looks like for the top 40:

#1 Jones
#13 Ernie
#20 Compher
#21 McCoshen
#25 Hartman
#28 Lodge
#31 McCarron
#32 Hurley
#36 Pesce
#37 Bailey

Of the top 19 players:
15 Canadians
2 Americans
2 International

To me having only 2 Americans in the top 19 is really not that great. It seems like the last few drafts the American numbers for top tier players is getting worse, not better.
I take the CSB rankings with a grain of salt. The U.S. will once again have 6 or so players selected in the first round with two likely top ten picks (Jones and Erne) with Jones the odds on favorite to be picked #1. The bigger concern (vexed is more like it) is the lack of high-end forwards that have come on the scene over the last several years. Galchenyuk is that kind of guy but we know his development history. I guess Eichel could fit the bill, but who knows?

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Old
01-17-2013, 11:35 AM
  #328
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I am really surprised Erne is not considered top 10 at this point. He has great offensive instincts, and can really fire the puck. Plus he has very good size, and some good speed.

I can see Jones, Erne, Compher and Hartman all going top 15. Hartman could be a real riser. Looked great at WJCs and CHL Top Prospects Game.

I also think Lodge and Bailey can put together very good second halves and rise. Lodge probably high second, doubt he cracks first round. I can't see Bailey not being a first rounder, strictly based on potential. Some team will fall in love with a 6'4 kid with offensive upside, who is just beginning to play real hockey. The fact his dad was in the NFL will be a plus too.

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01-17-2013, 11:45 AM
  #329
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After seeing Camaratta completely off the CSS list, I spit on the list.

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01-17-2013, 12:09 PM
  #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IkeaMonkey View Post
After seeing Camaratta completely off the CSS list, I spit on the list.
I have trouble seeing the value in the CS list. 30 NHL Teams with a paid scouting staff to do the same job and actually make picks seems logical. CS? What for?

I totally agree about Camaratta. How can leave him off the list? Its unbelievable. Small but with high offensive output. Looking at the USHL players selected you can easily pick off five that are his size and put this kid in their place. Also a few other players from the USHL that project to have pro potential with pro size that are not listed.

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Old
01-17-2013, 12:32 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by IkeaMonkey View Post
After seeing Camaratta completely off the CSS list, I spit on the list.
It's strange considering a guy like Petan gets so much love. I know it's differant leagues, but my guess is if you put Camaratta in the WHL he'd do okay...

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01-17-2013, 01:05 PM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
It's strange considering a guy like Petan gets so much love. I know it's differant leagues, but my guess is if you put Camaratta in the WHL he'd do okay...
I get taking him off first round type consideration(where I had him at the end of last season...), but he's not even ranked? While scoring at a pace better than Kevin Roy did last season, when he broke the USHL scoring record...as a 17 year old? Get the **** out of here.

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01-17-2013, 01:16 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
It's strange considering a guy like Petan gets so much love. I know it's differant leagues, but my guess is if you put Camaratta in the WHL he'd do okay...
My belief is that CS needs to grab players from each available pool; CHL, HS, USHL, OJHL, NAHL, EJHL. The bulk will always go to the CHL with the balance being distributed is some way.


The USHL list from CS is always off. There are 26 players listed. 12 are from the USNTDP. So outside of that program there are only 14 USHL players who make the list?I don;t buy it. Last year Vantranno is ranked 88 and is not pick. This year he isn't listed. 88th to off the list?

There are far to many listed from HS programs. Statistically HS picks prove to have the least amount of success at the next level. Without seeing how they play against older, bigger competition these are wild card picks. CS has 31 high school players listed.

Come June its what the teams think and the CS list will be a distant memory.

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Old
01-22-2013, 11:01 PM
  #334
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I appreciate the responses but it just seems for all the success of USA hockey it is still not paying off with high 1st round draft picks. I'd like to see more players crack to top 15 or top 20. Hopefully in the future that will be the case.

Great to see A. Galchenyuk light the lamp tonight btw.

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:38 AM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razor ray View Post
I appreciate the responses but it just seems for all the success of USA hockey it is still not paying off with high 1st round draft picks. I'd like to see more players crack to top 15 or top 20. Hopefully in the future that will be the case.

Great to see A. Galchenyuk light the lamp tonight btw.
though I agree with what you are saying, as I want to see more US kids drafted inside the top 10, and certainly inside the top 15.. But,I will also add that we are developing very solid players that are being drafted outside of the top 10. There are a number of players who were drafted outside of the top 10 but now looking back they would likely be top 10 picks (Fowler, Carlson, McDonagh, Coyle, etc).... some of these might be debatable, but there are a number of solid US kids coming that can make a case for top 10-15 picks if the draft was redone which is what matters as these kids are performing closer to the professional level.

After going three years I believe without a top 10 pick (2009, 2010, 2011), we will be going back to back with top 10 picks with Galchenyuk and Trouba last year, and Jones and possibly Erne this year. With a #3 overall selection in 2012 and a likely #1 pick in 2013. Our greatest draft perhaps ever (2010) did not have a single player taken from the US in the top 10, eventhough we had a record year of 11 Americans taken overall that draft. And without question Fowler should have gone top 10, with Coyle and Etem knocking on that door. What is even crazier about that draft is looking at that second round of the draft where guys like Merrill, Faulk, and Zucker all would go in the first round if redone today...That is a pretty amazing draft for USA Hockey and one that will support us for years to come.

I agree that more highend players are needed for USA Hockey to really take the next step. I am just saying that sometimes draft position really doesnt mean much in that regard. If we werent developing kids at all like what happened to the US from the darkest days of 93-2000 drafts, then I would agree as those drafts were filled with busts but only a few solid players. The US is developing a certain type of player now, and that is fine, but more and more we are starting to get a few kids to break above that ceiling which will lead to more top 10 picks, which hopefully leads to more all-stars which is your underlying point.

Just remember though, guys like Pavelski, Byfuglien, Callahan, Tim Thomas, Yandle, Stastny, Stepan, Wisniewski, Goligoski, etc all werent taken high or thought that highly of. Most of these guys have been a big part of USA Hockey in international play or will soon be. Some of these guys are looked at as some of the best players we have to offer, so draft position really isnt the be all end all here. Plus look were Zach Parise was drafted...nuff said!


Last edited by AmericanDream: 01-23-2013 at 10:59 AM.
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Old
01-23-2013, 12:29 PM
  #336
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pretty happy to see that Seth Ambroz is starting to play a better game then the past two seasons. not a lot of room for him on that stacked Gophers team, but he has looked pretty solid in my few viewings of him. certainly not looking like the kid that was a top 5 pick at one point, but he could carve out a decent career out at Minnesota, and eventually the pros if he continues to work hard, use his size to his strength, and continue to shoot the puck more...

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Old
01-24-2013, 05:46 PM
  #337
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Jordan Schroeder had his NHL debut last night and looked quite good. Plays bigger than his size and is very good defensively. Obviously a great playmaker, but our offensive depth is pretty shot with Kesler and Booth injured. Vigneault trusted him quite a bit (15 minutes played) and even put him out there in the OT. No points but screened the goalie on our 2nd goal. Took one stupid penalty early in the game and also got knocked down on his butt his first or second shift out but didn't seem to affect him the rest of the way.

Edit: Had his first assist in his second game. Was out there against Getzlaf and Perry a few times and more than held his own, ended the game +1 and led the team on face-offs.


Last edited by Tiranis: 01-26-2013 at 11:23 AM.
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Old
01-26-2013, 12:56 AM
  #338
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Here is another prospect list....USA at:

#1
#13
#23
#28
#29
#36
#38
#40
#45
#50

Let me know if I missed anyone but that is 9 out of 50 for USA.

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/blog/ey...-jones-is-no-1


Last edited by razor ray: 01-26-2013 at 11:42 AM.
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Old
01-26-2013, 10:22 AM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razor ray View Post
Here is another prospect list....USA at:

#1
#13
#23
#28
#29
#36
#38
#40
#45

Let me know if I missed anyone but that is 9 out of 50 for USA.

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/blog/ey...-jones-is-no-1
Justin Bailey at 50 is also American.

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Old
01-26-2013, 11:47 AM
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cagney View Post
Justin Bailey at 50 is also American.
Added it in.

On a side note, and sorry if discussed, is Nick Ebert showing any signs of improvement? This guy at one time was projected the #2 overall pick in the NHL Draft.

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Old
01-27-2013, 05:48 PM
  #341
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You guys got an opinion on any of the following Preds USA prospects:

Jimmy Vesey
Chase Balisy
Zach Budish
Zach Stepan
Garrett Noonan


?

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Old
01-27-2013, 07:00 PM
  #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexmanu View Post
You guys got an opinion on any of the following Preds USA prospects:

Jimmy Vesey
Chase Balisy
Zach Budish
Zach Stepan
Garrett Noonan


?
Vesey looks like a solid player. He could be a 3rd line guy in the NHL while putting in a few points.

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01-31-2013, 01:20 AM
  #343
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The TSN Midseason Draft Rankings were released... http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9840

1. Seth Jones
16. Adam Erne
28. Ryan Hartman
30. JT Compher
32. Ian McCoshen
37. Justin Bailey
41. Steve Santini
43. Keaton Thompson
49. Michael McCarron
53. Hudson Fasching
55. Connor Hurley
56. Ryan Fitzgerald
58. John Hayden
60. Tom Vannelli
HM: Michael Downing, Jimmy Lodge, Eamon McAdam, Brett Pesce, Calvin Petersen.

These always tend to be the best rankings as far as determining where a player is likely to go. Obviously there'll be a number of opportunities for players to improve their stock over the next few months but it does seem that there are no sure things outside of Jones and perhaps Erne. Lots of 1st/2nd round tweeners which seems to have become the norm over the past number of drafts for US players.


Last edited by cagney: 01-31-2013 at 09:51 AM.
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01-31-2013, 01:31 AM
  #344
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I will say that High school players always seem to go higher than projected. So maybe somebody grabs Hurley in the late first or early second round?

Hudson Fasching just continues his freefall. Butcher has completely disappeared.

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02-02-2013, 04:06 PM
  #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cagney View Post
The TSN Midseason Draft Rankings were released... http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9840

1. Seth Jones
16. Adam Erne
28. Ryan Hartman
30. JT Compher
32. Ian McCoshen
37. Justin Bailey
41. Steve Santini
43. Keaton Thompson
49. Michael McCarron
53. Hudson Fasching
55. Connor Hurley
56. Ryan Fitzgerald
58. John Hayden
60. Tom Vannelli
HM: Michael Downing, Jimmy Lodge, Eamon McAdam, Brett Pesce, Calvin Petersen.

These always tend to be the best rankings as far as determining where a player is likely to go. Obviously there'll be a number of opportunities for players to improve their stock over the next few months but it does seem that there are no sure things outside of Jones and perhaps Erne. Lots of 1st/2nd round tweeners which seems to have become the norm over the past number of drafts for US players.
Shocked Tyler Motte isn't even ranked. Have always been extremely impressed with him, and remember talk he could be a late first early 2nd rounder not too long ago. Is he really struggling this season? Thanks for your input.

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02-05-2013, 01:05 AM
  #346
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Hey guys what are your thoughts on Clark Kuster of Cedar Rapids? Heard the undersized offensive D may be committing to RPI.

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Old
02-05-2013, 10:08 AM
  #347
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Shocked Tyler Motte isn't even ranked. Have always been extremely impressed with him, and remember talk he could be a late first early 2nd rounder not too long ago. Is he really struggling this season? Thanks for your input.
It doesn't surprise me. I picture him as more of a 3rd to 5th round type at this point. I could see him developing into a scorer for Michigan over the years but I have real doubts about his chances in the pro game. He needs to get stronger and find ways to be more of a factor inside the offensive zone as when I've seen him he's only really effective when using his speed on the rush and far less noticeable when the offense sets up.

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02-05-2013, 12:51 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by DekeLikeYouMeanIt View Post
Hey guys what are your thoughts on Clark Kuster of Cedar Rapids? Heard the undersized offensive D may be committing to RPI.
Clark, is just that, an offensive defenseman and undersized. Very good skater that likes to jump up on the offensive rush. He has at least 3 goals on odd man rushes this year. He is a very discipline defenseman as far as taking dumb penalties but definitely needs to sure up his positioning in his own end.

He is an underrated and whoever lands him will get a quality kid. He comes from the St Louis Jr Blues organization and Mark Carlson has made a killing off STL kids in recent years.

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02-05-2013, 01:59 PM
  #349
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Don't know if this is the right place, but JT Miller is debuting tonight

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02-05-2013, 04:36 PM
  #350
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Originally Posted by cagney View Post
It doesn't surprise me. I picture him as more of a 3rd to 5th round type at this point. I could see him developing into a scorer for Michigan over the years but I have real doubts about his chances in the pro game. He needs to get stronger and find ways to be more of a factor inside the offensive zone as when I've seen him he's only really effective when using his speed on the rush and far less noticeable when the offense sets up.
Thanks for your opinion.

When I saw him with Honeybaked, he was incredible. Outplayed Cammaratta and MacKinnon in the National Final. Relentless on the forecheck, great wheels, great hands, would rarely lose a one-on-one battle. He looked like a young Jonathan Toews.

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