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P.K Subban Thread 2.0

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Old
01-17-2013, 10:44 AM
  #826
PricePkPatch
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
I also think you were making a good point, but the issue of transitional contracts is one that the org. is committed to enforcing and I like it. You have to earn your stripes, no matter who you are or how well you played. If you're a young player coming out of your ELC, you need to first go through the process of giving the team one contract (that is SIGNIFICANTLY higher than your last!) to show your commitment to being a part of the whole. Yes, PK has been a beast for us, but he's by no means perfect and shouldn't think that he is. He is a fan fav. for many reasons including he's always speaking well of Montreal, about how he's always wanted to play here, how he wants to win, how he knows he needs to grow. Well then he needs to put his money (or demand for it) where his mouth is. Gorges had a similar situation, although IMO he had already been through a transitional one (combining SJ and MTL) and he understood that the club wanted to see how he was after surgery. He got what he deserved in the end. Same with Price. Patches is not a fan favourite? He's the poster child of our offense! Yet he is incredibly mature about the process and I think he cares way more about becoming a better hockey player than money (granted he's got a good second sports-related stream of income).

Last thing I want to see from PK is the attitude that is embodied by that picture Kane tweeted. I respect a hockey player who wants to prove himself and also...enough with the ridiculous amounts of making it rain (and raining hard). Just play!
You have to earn your stripes? What part of "half of the first pair used on ES, PP and PK" doesn't qualify as "earning your stripes"?

You are effectively saying it doesn't matter how a player will play his ECL; he'll always have only a bridge contract, no matter what.

Price and Patch hadn't proved themselves the way PK already has when they finished their ECL. The same logic

DOESN'T

APPLY

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Old
01-17-2013, 10:44 AM
  #827
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So, essentially, this is just like the lockout.

Sides are far apart.

Sides don't talk despite it being irrational to us.

It's basically down to a detail (lenght of contract)

Sides may or may not touch base today.

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Old
01-17-2013, 10:44 AM
  #828
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On Hockey Central At Noon (Sportsnet), they were just saying that if Subban isn't signed by the time Redden becomes a UFA, that we should try to sign him a contract near league minimum.

We have 7 NHL defenseman plus St-Denis who could hold down a 3rd pairing shift. How unclassy would that be to sign Redden then turn around and throw him right back in the minors after Subban signs (although I'm sure he'd get claimed).

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01-17-2013, 10:45 AM
  #829
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
On Hockey Central At Noon (Sportsnet), they were just saying that if Subban isn't signed by the time Redden becomes a UFA, that we should try to sign him a contract near league minimum.


It is amazing to me how Sportsnet knows nothing about our team.

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Old
01-17-2013, 10:47 AM
  #830
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PK MUST be signed ASAP. Common Bergevin don't be such a dick!!!

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01-17-2013, 10:51 AM
  #831
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What is likely to happen if agreement isn't reached before the opener and another team doesn't extend an offer sheet? As much as the Habs need him I'd say Bergevin still wouldn't capitulate and give Subban everything he demands.

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01-17-2013, 10:54 AM
  #832
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
What is likely to happen if agreement isn't reached before the opener and another team doesn't extend an offer sheet? As much as the Habs need him I'd say Bergevin still wouldn't capitulate and give Subban everything he demands.
nothing will happen

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01-17-2013, 10:54 AM
  #833
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
What is likely to happen if agreement isn't reached before the opener and another team doesn't extend an offer sheet? As much as the Habs need him I'd say Bergevin still wouldn't capitulate and give Subban everything he demands.
I'll be paying close attention to the Habs defense because they've essentially lost their shutdown pair from last year (Gorges + Subban) and they've replaced it with Gorges + Kaberle

Who among Gorges/Kaberle...Markov/Yemelin...Bouillon/Diaz, will face the oppositions top lines?

If the Habs don't realize how important Subban is now, IMO, they will by the time games 4-5 roll around.

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01-17-2013, 10:54 AM
  #834
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I'm completely on Bergevin's side. The players are so spoiled nowadays, getting UFA at 27, PK needs to just grin and bear it. He's played all of 160 NHL games, he is no superstar and still has alot to prove. The Canadiens have to overpay like crazy on UFA, they have to put their foot down somewhere.

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01-17-2013, 10:56 AM
  #835
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For the record, I'm in agreement with both sides.

I agree with Bergevin wanting to establish an organisational standard for guys coming off their first contract. 2 years deal as a buffer between ELC and big money, long term deal.

I agree with Subban wanting that long term contract & I'd be willing to give it to him, especially if he would really take 4M.

It's really the will to establish a standard going against a guy's wish to cash in and get some security.

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01-17-2013, 10:56 AM
  #836
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I'll be paying close attention to the Habs defense because they've essentially lost their shutdown pair from last year (Gorges + Subban) and they've replaced it with Gorges + Kaberle

Who among Gorges/Kaberle...Markov/Yemelin...Bouillon/Diaz, will face the oppositions top lines?

If the Habs don't realize how important Subban is now, IMO, they will by the time games 4-5 roll around.
Or the habs will play great on defense and Subban will lose munitions.

Both sides have advantage in this contract being signed before the fist game.

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01-17-2013, 10:56 AM
  #837
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Imagine if Gally put 60 pts and more for he next 3 years. Do you guys really imagine he will accept a 2 years deal? He will also ask for 6-7 years that's the new way to go.

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Old
01-17-2013, 10:57 AM
  #838
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Originally Posted by A1 View Post
I'm completely on Bergevin's side. The players are so spoiled nowadays, getting UFA at 27, PK needs to just grin and bear it. He's played all of 160 NHL games, he is no superstar and still has alot to prove. The Canadiens have to overpay like crazy on UFA, they have to put their foot down somewhere.
Maybe someone should send the coaching staff the message...

The minute PK Subban is signed, he'll be playing 24+ mins a night, + PP + PK + matchup situations, etc.

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01-17-2013, 10:57 AM
  #839
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
You have to earn your stripes? What part of "half of the first pair used on ES, PP and PK" doesn't qualify as "earning your stripes"?

You are effectively saying it doesn't matter how a player will play his ECL; he'll always have only a bridge contract, no matter what.

Price and Patch hadn't proved themselves the way PK already has when they finished their ECL. The same logic

DOESN'T

APPLY
As I stated, the transitional contract isn't chump change. You shouldn't go from making relatively nothing to EVERYTHING! I think it's a bad mentality + it is a burden to the team in trying to keep value for the future. I don't mind them paying him large on a long contract (shows dedication to the team) or a decent sum on a 2 year (shows that he's willing to show that he can be consistent through to the point where he's still an RFA). He's either asking too much in the short term (he is overrating himself compared to others who have gotten large contracts/they were f'in large and we're just ending the debacle associated with that in Gomez) or basically setting up a situation where if they don't pay him huge in 4 years, he will get it somewhere.

As for the other players you mentioned:

Price HAS proven himself over and over again. He has gone through hell and back and man does he ever deserve his contract.

Patches has, what, ~4.5 million/year? I'm totally fine with that figure + it's long term!

You're probably arguing PK > Patches. Point is that it shouldn't work like that. They're both leaders in their own categories and if anything Pacioretty has shown himself to be more consistent (PK has had ups and downs and takes a ton of penalties). I love PK (this is why I'm upset about no deal), and I totally get that a young D will have to go through these learning bumps, but that's the whole point - until you iron them out, take something like Patches. Is it realllly that bad of a deal??

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Old
01-17-2013, 10:58 AM
  #840
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Originally Posted by VAN-HAB View Post
PK MUST be signed ASAP. Common Bergevin don't be such a dick!!!
You mean, Bergevin and Subban, stop being babies and make something work

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Old
01-17-2013, 11:00 AM
  #841
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Originally Posted by ZARTONK View Post
Or the habs will play great on defense and Subban will lose munitions.

Both sides have advantage in this contract being signed before the fist game.
Agreed...this is the risk that both sides are taking.

But knowing what we know about our team...I'd be surprised if they don't miss, arguably, their best defensive defensman (with all due respect to Gorges).

Don't think that Don Meehan doesn't know this either.

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Old
01-17-2013, 11:01 AM
  #842
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I'll be paying close attention to the Habs defense because they've essentially lost their shutdown pair from last year (Gorges + Subban) and they've replaced it with Gorges + Kaberle

Who among Gorges/Kaberle...Markov/Yemelin...Bouillon/Diaz, will face the oppositions top lines?

If the Habs don't realize how important Subban is now, IMO, they will by the time games 4-5 roll around.
They could just as well go 6-2-2 in the first 10 games without Subban. It's not a significant sample size and they start the season with a cupcake schedule that is mostly at home.

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Old
01-17-2013, 11:05 AM
  #843
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
As for the other players you mentioned:

Price HAS proven himself over and over again. He has gone through hell and back and man does he ever deserve his contract.

Patches has, what, ~4.5 million/year? I'm totally fine with that figure + it's long term!
You have no idea what you are talking about, don't you?

Think. In what positions we're Price and Patch when they signed their bridge contract?! No, they hadn't proved themselves back then. They have now.

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Old
01-17-2013, 11:07 AM
  #844
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
They could just as well go 6-2-2 in the first 10 games without Subban. It's not a significant sample size and they start the season with a cupcake schedule that is mostly at home.
I realize that...I just don't personally think their defensive personel is good enough, without the heavy minutes Subban plays, to sustain his absence for very long

I realize their schedule is quite favorable off the start...but again, not having PK is losing a BIG chunk of minutes which others will have to prove they can make up.

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01-17-2013, 11:08 AM
  #845
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Old
01-17-2013, 11:15 AM
  #846
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It's a good organizational sentiment to stand by the players you home-grow and who give their all for this team. Give him the long term deal. He's more than earned it.

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01-17-2013, 11:16 AM
  #847
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The ice is not the problem. It's the locker room and how some of his teammates find him really annoying. He's a great player but **** is he annoying.
Well just to let you know, some of us here actually have friends who know PK ...AND NO THEY DON'T FIND HIM ANNOYING !!
So when you don't know what you are writing, you should probably NOT.

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01-17-2013, 11:17 AM
  #848
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Well just to let you know, some of us here actually have friends who know PK ...AND NO THEY DON'T FIND HIM ANNOYING !!
So when you don't know what you are writing, you should probably NOT.
Tell him to fire Meehan please, thx.

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Old
01-17-2013, 11:20 AM
  #849
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
You have no idea what you are talking about, don't you?

Think. In what positions we're Price and Patch when they signed their bridge contract?! No, they hadn't proved themselves back then. They have now.
Subban has proven more than Pacioretty anyway. Pacioretty was our best even strength scorer last year...and Subban has probably been our best defender since that time Martin benched him. As important as Pacioretty is, he won't make or break us to the level that Subban and Price will.

I don't understand how people can say Subban is only potential. No, he's not a top 10 defender, but he is already above average, already the only one of three defenders on this team (the other two have already got the contracts they want) who is able to be a positive possession player in tough matchups. He's not Weber or Chara but he is the best defender on this team.

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Old
01-17-2013, 11:20 AM
  #850
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Originally Posted by ClasslessGuy View Post
Price
And he's getting one million short of 40M for it.
<
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClasslessGuy View Post
Imagine if Gally put 60 pts and more for he next 3 years. Do you guys really imagine he will accept a 2 years deal? He will also ask for 6-7 years that's the new way to go.
Exactly. But it appears people have a very hard time evaluating defenseman. I mean, it's tougher to do so seeing how only a handful (or less) can score 60-70-80pts.
The amount of fans that are capable of properly evaluating a Dman is very small. Heck, I remember some even questioned Markov's skills. Or even Plekanec's performance in the POs, he completely neutralized Krejci's line during the Bruins cup run. In 7 games, they only racked up a handful of points combined, no other team shut that line down like Plek's did. However, ask around, people will complain Plekanec played poorly and was a no show. Most simply don't understand the actual performances all that well.
If they did, there would be a lot more support to give PK more than just a bridge contract.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
They could just as well go 6-2-2 in the first 10 games without Subban. It's not a significant sample size and they start the season with a cupcake schedule that is mostly at home.
Right, just like Pittsburgh did perfectly fine without Crosby, despite him being the best player in the NHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uber Coca View Post
People saying Bergevin should pay Subban whatever price he wants shouldn't quit their daytime jobs to become a GM. It would be quite irresponsible for Bergevin given the new CBA. His job is to get the best deal out of his best defenseman in order to build a decent team and have enough cap space for the future.

Negociation is part of the process, and it was to be expected since Bergevin wants flexibility in the future.

Also, I've been hearing a lot of comments on Subban's attitude from Crête and McGuire. PK Subban has the right to mature and needs to do it, while his teammates should let him mature and be professionnal about it.
You know what would be even more irresponsible? Not re-signing your best Defenseman while giving 10M to a scrapper like Prust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Personally I see PK's personality as a plus.

He plays hard during practice, he hates losing, he makes fun videos for youtube, and he enjoys time in the media, see his weather service, and he has the balls to go for great, ambitious moves during the game.

I'll take that over some dumbass who drones on about "giving 110%" in pre-game interviews.

What we need are players who grab life by the balls, not robots.
Right on..


How can you not like this kid and view his personality as a flaw. The kid does it all.
Maybe we should send this video to Bergevin..

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