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P.K Subban Thread 2.0

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Old
01-17-2013, 11:23 AM
  #851
Jerk Store
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhov View Post
Everyone has their opinions. I believe if PK had the same attitude and maturity as someone like Galchenyuk has, I think he'd be signed by now.

Like I said, everyone has their opinions. But I think is is one of many factors in this case, especially from within an organisation like the Habs.

On ice performance is not everything for them, we've seen it in the past with Carbonneau, Chelios etc... They would of never been traded for the stupid reasons they were traded in another organisation.

Edit: And not so long ago, Cammalleri
I've been saying this for a while now, but other members get quite defensive about PK. I also think his antics are a bit of a concern and taken into account as far as term for his next contract. And for those jumping the gun replying that his mouth gets others off their game la Pronger, I'm sure what Malakhov is referring to is his issues with other teammates which, wether some of you like it or not, can, and usually does, affect team chemistry.

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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You're talking about Personality, not attitude or maturity. Gally hasn't even played one game in the NHL. He's an 18yo kid, that actually played versus young pro players for the first time in his career during the WJC. Let's see where he's at after his ELC.
If he has great years and doesn't want a bridge contract because he was used as the #1 centerman for two years, what will you say then?

Your opinion is based on other people's (mainly old farts) speculations or opinions, not facts. Morons spread crap about PK, and you just eat it up.
We saw footage of him going at it with teammates, bro.

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01-17-2013, 11:23 AM
  #852
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You know what would be even more irresponsible? Not re-signing your best Defenseman while giving 10M to a scrapper like Prust.
This says it all really.


Too bad we don't have the cap space to S&T Subban for Vinny, pretty much all that's missing from the Chelios parallels now is trading him for a lost son for "character" reasons.

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01-17-2013, 11:25 AM
  #853
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Larry Carriere spent more than half a season last year behind the bench and in the locker room. He knows a thing or two about Subban.

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01-17-2013, 11:26 AM
  #854
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
This says it all really.


Too bad we don't have the cap space to S&T Subban for Vinny, pretty much all that's missing from the Chelios parallels now is trading him for a lost son for "character" reasons.
So giving 4 million $ per year for 2 or 3 years is an insult ?

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01-17-2013, 11:31 AM
  #855
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
So giving 4 million $ per year for 2 or 3 years is an insult ?
Compared to every recent contract given out? A huge insult.

You are telling me Subban is worth the same as a PP specialist role player like Del Zotto when the likes of Myers got significantly more than that?

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01-17-2013, 11:32 AM
  #856
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Price was the flavor of the week
MaxPac was the flavor of the week
Subban is the flavor of the week
If Galchenyuk make the team he's going to be the flavor of the week and Subban will be less important in our discution because we are going to find an other exciting player to watch.

I still want want Subban to sign bt not long term, give him 3.5-4M per year for 2 years

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01-17-2013, 11:36 AM
  #857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KBstyle View Post
Price was the flavor of the week
MaxPac was the flavor of the week
Subban is the flavor of the week
If Galchenyuk make the team he's going to be the flavor of the week and Subban will be less important in our discution because we are going to find an other exciting player to watch.

I still want want Subban to sign bt not long term, give him 3.5-4M per year for 2 years
Why would Subban even consider signing for less than Del Zotto when he's a first pairing defender and Del Zotto is not?

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01-17-2013, 11:42 AM
  #858
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Why would Subban even consider signing for less than Del Zotto when he's a first pairing defender and Del Zotto is not?
3.5-4 > 2.55. He would be making 1-1.5 mill more.

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01-17-2013, 11:44 AM
  #859
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Originally Posted by Jerk Store View Post
We saw footage of him going at it with teammates, bro.
You mean during practice? That's called battling hard. Ask Plekanec or DD if they like having PK on the ice when they're playing the opposition, pretty sure they're very happy to see him back there.
Nothing wrong with battling hard in corners. Heck, I get at it with some of my closest friends when we play for fun.

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01-17-2013, 11:45 AM
  #860
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Interesting that 2 days before the start of the season, there are 4 unsigned guys that are looking for a second contract and that are an important piece of their team. (Kulikov, Benn, O'Reilly and Subban)

The only one that signed since the new CBA was MDZ and it was to really reasonable terms (Zajac was on his third contract).

I'm guessing that when one of them signs, it will set the tone for the others.

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01-17-2013, 11:45 AM
  #861
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PK Subban is NOT a #1 defenceman. He may be that in the future, but no way to know for sure. I suspect/hope that this is the reason that they are reluctant to dish out a big money contract to him so soon and not these perceived "attitude problems", which imo don't exist. Pks got a ton of development to do to be considered even able to hold Markovs jock, let alone be our best defenceman.

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01-17-2013, 11:49 AM
  #862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Compared to every recent contract given out? A huge insult.

You are telling me Subban is worth the same as a PP specialist role player like Del Zotto when the likes of Myers got significantly more than that?
Role player? haha MDZ had more points in less games than Subban.

Subban is the better all-around player, but to call it a "huge insult" is in itself a "huge insult".

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Old
01-17-2013, 11:53 AM
  #863
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
Role player? haha MDZ had more points in less games than Subban.

Subban is the better all-around player, but to call it a "huge insult" is in itself a "huge insult".
MDZ had more points in less games because he's a power play specialist. Kaberle also had a higher PPG ratio than Subban after he was traded to Montreal.

MDZ also had more points in less games than McDonagh; does that mean when the time comes the Rangers can give McD that same contract and expect him to be happy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
PK Subban is NOT a #1 defenceman. He may be that in the future, but no way to know for sure. I suspect/hope that this is the reason that they are reluctant to dish out a big money contract to him so soon and not these perceived "attitude problems", which imo don't exist. Pks got a ton of development to do to be considered even able to hold Markovs jock, let alone be our best defenceman.
The numbers say otherwise. Subban had some of the hardest minutes in the league, considering after him and Gorges the Habs effectively played with two bottom pairing lines, and yet Subban won the possession matchup and finished the season +9. While one season on a bad team doesn't make him a superstar, it does make him an above average defender. The only guy on this team who might be able to play a 1st pairing two way role besides Subban is Markov, and we don't know how good Markov is at this point.

Basically this team has Subban, Gorges, Markov and a legion of 6th defenders. So yes, we need Subban more than he needs the Habs.


Last edited by Et le But: 01-17-2013 at 12:00 PM.
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Old
01-17-2013, 12:03 PM
  #864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
PK Subban is NOT a #1 defenceman. He may be that in the future, but no way to know for sure. I suspect/hope that this is the reason that they are reluctant to dish out a big money contract to him so soon and not these perceived "attitude problems", which imo don't exist. Pks got a ton of development to do to be considered even able to hold Markovs jock, let alone be our best defenceman.
He is at worst a #2 defenseman, and therefore the 2 years @ 3.25 million per contract remains an invalid offer.

Subban is as much a #1 dman as Plekanec is a #1 center, at this point imo. They are both #1's on weak teams and #2's on great teams. However, those are still valuable roles that should be well-compensated, and Subban has the potential to improve.

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Old
01-17-2013, 12:09 PM
  #865
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Not taking sides here but this is not going to end well. Missing a few games over a contract dispute is a huge deal in a city like Montreal.

I would not be surprised to see a trade or, worst case, an offer sheet if it drags out.

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01-17-2013, 12:21 PM
  #866
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Originally Posted by DenverHabsFan View Post
Not taking sides here but this is not going to end well. Missing a few games over a contract dispute is a huge deal in a city like Montreal.

I would not be surprised to see a trade or, worst case, an offer sheet if it drags out.
I think the likelyhood of either scenario is slim...

Offer sheets don't happen nearly as much as fans think given how many players are RFA's every year, it's just not a common practice.

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Old
01-17-2013, 12:21 PM
  #867
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I really don't think personality is actually a factor in this. The maturity thing is really just about the normal process all players must go through. I'm sure someone like Bergevin above others, values or understands PK's "personality".


As for the gamble re: first few game results, the problem is: if we lose these so called cupcake games at home WITHOUT PK (crowd will not like) and this jeopardizes the season (it's that small a margin of error), Bergevin will be seen by many retrospectively as having made a major mistake or having lost the gamble.
We NEED to win these games, thus can't take any chances. While that means we could potentially win with a significantly weaker D (which we 100% are without him), we could also dramatically increase our odds of winning most of them and buffering against the results of the tough games by getting him to pay NOW.

The shortened season and continued league parity really does play into this. Now is the time for Bergevin to avoid a gamble, since IMO the odds tip against him.


Edit: Freudian typo - pay instead of play

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01-17-2013, 12:22 PM
  #868
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Why would Subban even consider signing for less than Del Zotto when he's a first pairing defender and Del Zotto is not?
Ranking is relative. Del Zotto plays for the Rangers while Subban plays for the Habs. If Chara were a Hab every other Dman would be moved down one notch.

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01-17-2013, 12:24 PM
  #869
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[QUOTE=HawkeyeCB;57729785]On Hockey Central At Noon (Sportsnet), they were just saying that if Subban isn't signed by the time Redden becomes a UFA, that we should try to sign him a contract near league minimum.
[QUOTE]

They also said that PK and don meehan will be meeting tomorrow to decide their next move

so it easy to assume nothing will get done before that

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Old
01-17-2013, 12:27 PM
  #870
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Ranking is relative. Del Zotto plays for the Rangers while Subban plays for the Habs. If Chara were a Hab every other Dman would be moved down one notch.
To some degree yes, but when I say first pairing, I mean Subban can be one of a teams two best defenders and still be a net positive. I seriously doubt the same can be said about Del Zotto. If Chara was a Hab, Subban would still be a first pairing Dman.

Put it this way, the Rangers have three guys who could arguably play first pairing minutes on most teams in McD, Girardi, and Staal. Subban is closer to that group than MDZ.

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01-17-2013, 12:29 PM
  #871
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Pk is starting to turn the public against him. Quite selfish the way he is acting in these negos.

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Old
01-17-2013, 12:29 PM
  #872
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[QUOTE=GordonGraham;57736073][QUOTE=HawkeyeCB;57729785]On Hockey Central At Noon (Sportsnet), they were just saying that if Subban isn't signed by the time Redden becomes a UFA, that we should try to sign him a contract near league minimum.
Quote:

They also said that PK and don meehan will be meeting tomorrow to decide their next move

so it easy to assume nothing will get done before that
This is all because PK doesn't want to play just yet. He's really enjoyed his job modelling his swag on Sportsnet and I think he wants to be part of the panels for the first week or so. Then he'll sign.

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01-17-2013, 12:29 PM
  #873
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[QUOTE=GordonGraham;57736073][QUOTE=HawkeyeCB;57729785]On Hockey Central At Noon (Sportsnet), they were just saying that if Subban isn't signed by the time Redden becomes a UFA, that we should try to sign him a contract near league minimum.
Quote:

They also said that PK and don meehan will be meeting tomorrow to decide their next move

so it easy to assume nothing will get done before that
I heard that comment as well about them meeting tomorrow to "discuss their next move." That's ominous. When you're a hold-out RFA, you only have two possible moves:
1) Come back to Montreal with a new proposal (full or partial capitulation), or
2) Seek offer sheets.

So this could get interesting quickly. Let's just hope status quo isn't chosen.

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Old
01-17-2013, 12:30 PM
  #874
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Why would Subban even consider signing for less than Del Zotto when he's a first pairing defender and Del Zotto is not?
you need math lessons buddy

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Old
01-17-2013, 12:32 PM
  #875
Et le But
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you need math lessons buddy
Yeah, I misinterpreted something there..there's a reason I'm in law school and not business school or anything else I'd need math for.

I still think it sounds like the Habs are using the MDZ contract to push Subban, and it just doesn't work.

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