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Old
01-16-2013, 09:03 PM
  #701
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Originally Posted by The Inglorious One View Post
Blues fan coming in peace. I have a fantasy league based solely on scoring points and we are required to take a rookie. I ended up taking your friend of Zetterberg, Damien Brunner.

I was just curious what kind of output you guys were expecting from him.

Hope if any of you travel to St. Louis on Saturday, you're treated civil. See you on Saturday!
I took Brunner in the Mod League Draft. I normally try to avoid picking Wings but he was out there a really long time and I rolled the dice. I snagged him with the 163rd overall pick.

It's impossible to say for sure, as he could completely flame out and end up on a checking line or back in Switzerland within a month. But he's starting the year with Z and Pavel and he looks like he's got a lot of skill and a lot of speed.

He could put up a lot of points on that line. 15 goals and 40-45 points would not be unheard of if he's playing 18 minutes a night with those guys and on the first PP unit to boot.

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01-16-2013, 11:57 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by TS Quint View Post
I think he will get 21-22 min/game same as 4 other Dmen on this team a little second line PP time. I'd put his over under for points in a 48 game season at 17.
Agree about the points but not sure if he'll play those minutes on average, although surely some nights.

Last season:
Kron 23
White 23
Quincey 22 but in Detroit more like 20
Ericsson 17
Smith 15
Kindl 14

This season I probably see it:
Kronwall 24 min
Quincey 22 min
White 21 min
Ericsson 19 min
Smith 19 min
Cola/Kindl 15 min


Hard to imagine a big decrease on the top3 considering our losses. Kronwall obviously gets a little bigger role. Quincey gets a little less PP time but a little more PK time this year and stays the same. White drops down to 21 as he isn't on the first pair anymore. Conversely Ericsson's totals rises as he gets more even-strength time alongside Kronwall and some of Stuart's PK time. Smith sees an increase at most situations. Cola/Kindl eat what's left.

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01-17-2013, 01:02 AM
  #703
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
This season I probably see it:
Kronwall 24 min
Quincey 22 min
White 21 min
Ericsson 19 min
Smith 19 min
Cola/Kindl 15 min
I think it will probably be closer to this:
Kronwall 24
Ericsson 21
White 21
Quincey 20
Smith 19
Cola/Kindl 15

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01-17-2013, 02:35 AM
  #704
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Agree about the points but not sure if he'll play those minutes on average, although surely some nights.

Last season:
Kron 23
White 23
Quincey 22 but in Detroit more like 20
Ericsson 17
Smith 15
Kindl 14

This season I probably see it:
Kronwall 24 min
Quincey 22 min
White 21 min
Ericsson 19 min
Smith 19 min
Cola/Kindl 15 min


Hard to imagine a big decrease on the top3 considering our losses. Kronwall obviously gets a little bigger role. Quincey gets a little less PP time but a little more PK time this year and stays the same. White drops down to 21 as he isn't on the first pair anymore. Conversely Ericsson's totals rises as he gets more even-strength time alongside Kronwall and some of Stuart's PK time. Smith sees an increase at most situations. Cola/Kindl eat what's left.
You could be right I might have over estimated Smith's minutes. I doubt he gets much special teams time and that will hurt.

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01-17-2013, 04:50 AM
  #705
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When looking those minute usages from last years playoffs and regular season, I could see the defence used this way:

PK minutes
1. Stuart 3min <-- Ericsson
2. Kronwall 3min --- Kronwall
3. Ericsson 2min <-- Quincey
4. Quincey 2min <-- Smith
5. White 1min --- White 1min

Ericsson promotes to main penalty killer role, Smith promotes to 2nd unit. Quincey is at 2nd pair role, but will be the first priority to jump at 1st pair, if Kronwall or Ericsson is not available. Other roles are kept same.

PP minutes
Lidström 4min <-- Kronwall
White 3min --- White
Kronwall 3min <-- Colaiacovo
Hudler/Quincey 2min <-- Samuelsson
Smith 1:45 --- Smith

White changes with Samuelsson for RH spot and Colaiacovo changes with Kronwall for LH spot.

There has been Quincey 2:28 minutes misleading these power-play usages, because that came mostly from the usage at Colorado. He was used under 2 minutes at playoffs in the spot of Hudler so he kind of was the 4th in hierarchy. Colaiacovo had +3 minutes PP for Blues at the playoffs, most with Shattenkirk on the team. So he had a 1st pair playoff role. I think Holland plans him on the PP before any of the kids (Kindl, Smith) and before Quincey, who's planned to be more of a defensive defenceman.

ES minutes:
White 19min
Lidström 18min
Stuart 18min
Kronwall 17min
(Quincey 17min)
Ericsson 15min
Smith 14min
Janik 14min
Kindl 13min

So those Top4 minutes were +17 minutes on average and we can count Quincey here as a 5th TOP4 guy, because he came in almost same time as Lidström was injured. His usage at Colorado was pretty much same at even strength.

But at the playoffs they changed those pairs, ERicsson was put with Lidström and he saw almost 2 minute jump in ice-time. White was relagated to 3rd pair minutes with Quincey, when all of those were healthy.

At this season, I could see very even usage between those pairs. We have quality also at 3rd pair now, so those minutes could go more like 17 - 17 - 16 than 18.5 (Lidström-White) - 17.5 (Kronwall-Stuart) - 14 (Ericsson-Smith/Janik/Kindl) average that was used at last season.

Even strength usage:

Kronwall - Ericsson
17minutes, 1st pair, main shutdown role and primary option at defensive end.

Quincey - Smith
17minutes, 2nd pair, secondary pair both at offensive and defensive ends.

Colaiacovo - White
16minutes, 3rd pair, primary option at offensive end.

(Kindl) 13 ES minutes, 7th defenceman

So with these usages my final predictions would be:

Kronwall 24min = (17minES + 4minPP + 3minPK)
Ericsson 20min = (17minES + 3minPK)
Smith 20min = (17minES + 2minPK + 1minPP)
White 20min = (16minES + 3minPP + 1minPK)
Quincey 19min = (17minES + 2minPK)
Colaiacovo 19min (16minES + 3minPP)
Kindl 13min (13minES + no PK or PP)

That's the "comittee" defence. If we want to take the lod off from Kronwall, give more PP minutes to Cola/Smith and more PK minutes to Quincey and so on...

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01-17-2013, 07:51 AM
  #706
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
When looking those minute usages from last years playoffs and regular season, I could see the defence used this way:

PK minutes
1. Stuart 3min <-- Ericsson
2. Kronwall 3min --- Kronwall
3. Ericsson 2min <-- Quincey
4. Quincey 2min <-- Smith
5. White 1min --- White 1min

Ericsson promotes to main penalty killer role, Smith promotes to 2nd unit. Quincey is at 2nd pair role, but will be the first priority to jump at 1st pair, if Kronwall or Ericsson is not available. Other roles are kept same.

PP minutes
Lidström 4min <-- Kronwall
White 3min --- White
Kronwall 3min <-- Colaiacovo
Hudler/Quincey 2min <-- Samuelsson
Smith 1:45 --- Smith

White changes with Samuelsson for RH spot and Colaiacovo changes with Kronwall for LH spot.

There has been Quincey 2:28 minutes misleading these power-play usages, because that came mostly from the usage at Colorado. He was used under 2 minutes at playoffs in the spot of Hudler so he kind of was the 4th in hierarchy. Colaiacovo had +3 minutes PP for Blues at the playoffs, most with Shattenkirk on the team. So he had a 1st pair playoff role. I think Holland plans him on the PP before any of the kids (Kindl, Smith) and before Quincey, who's planned to be more of a defensive defenceman.

ES minutes:
White 19min
Lidström 18min
Stuart 18min
Kronwall 17min
(Quincey 17min)
Ericsson 15min
Smith 14min
Janik 14min
Kindl 13min

So those Top4 minutes were +17 minutes on average and we can count Quincey here as a 5th TOP4 guy, because he came in almost same time as Lidström was injured. His usage at Colorado was pretty much same at even strength.

But at the playoffs they changed those pairs, ERicsson was put with Lidström and he saw almost 2 minute jump in ice-time. White was relagated to 3rd pair minutes with Quincey, when all of those were healthy.

At this season, I could see very even usage between those pairs. We have quality also at 3rd pair now, so those minutes could go more like 17 - 17 - 16 than 18.5 (Lidström-White) - 17.5 (Kronwall-Stuart) - 14 (Ericsson-Smith/Janik/Kindl) average that was used at last season.

Even strength usage:

Kronwall - Ericsson
17minutes, 1st pair, main shutdown role and primary option at defensive end.

Quincey - Smith
17minutes, 2nd pair, secondary pair both at offensive and defensive ends.

Colaiacovo - White
16minutes, 3rd pair, primary option at offensive end.

(Kindl) 13 ES minutes, 7th defenceman

So with these usages my final predictions would be:

Kronwall 24min = (17minES + 4minPP + 3minPK)
Ericsson 20min = (17minES + 3minPK)
Smith 20min = (17minES + 2minPK + 1minPP)
White 20min = (16minES + 3minPP + 1minPK)
Quincey 19min = (17minES + 2minPK)
Colaiacovo 19min (16minES + 3minPP)
Kindl 13min (13minES + no PK or PP)

That's the "comittee" defence. If we want to take the lod off from Kronwall, give more PP minutes to Cola/Smith and more PK minutes to Quincey and so on...
I think White is more likely to get significant usage on the PK than Smith. Also, I think you are giving too many minutes to Cola and not enough to Kindl; they'll basically be sharing a spot in the lineup. Furthermore, you're handing Cola PP minutes that won't be there; Sammy's going to be that 4th PP guy. And Cola likely won't get them over Smith either if Babcock plans to use Smith as a top-four defenseman.

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01-17-2013, 08:41 AM
  #707
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Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
I really don't understand the logic of even pondering the notion of dealing Franzen.

1. His contract is cap-friendly
2. for what he brings, he's worth every buck
3. He has notched 28-34 goals in 3 of the past 4 seasons and he was actually on pace to hit 30 in the year he was hurt.
4. 2/4 years he's been a playoff BEAST, 2/4 years no one on our team did **** in the playoffs
5. you want to remove the only big, rugged, physical forward with a scoring touch and more then likely replace him with either prospects, picks or a player who is without a doubt smaller.

Even pondering it is just asinine to me at this point.
1. Cap-friendly, yes. Potential CBA-related issues down the road friendly, not so much.

2. I agree for the most part; the only thing I (and others) want to see is a little more consistency.

3. He was also playing with Datsyuk and/or Zetterberg the entire time -- I'd hope he'd at least be scoring that much.

4. Well, we could always use the old "Hudler" argument for the years he put up great numbers: "Those teams were stacked!!"

5. Big, sure, but rugged and physical might be a bit of a stretch. Besides, "big, rugged, and physical" doesn't automatically make you a lock to score 30+ goals, and there are plenty of smaller guys who produce more with top-6 minutes.

For the money, yeah, Franzen isn't a bad deal, but that wasn't really the point in even bringing him up.

Also, I don't really care if you think discussing a Franzen trade is "asinine" or not, but you should probably keep that kind of comment to yourself. There are a lot of people on these boards, and everyone has differing opinions; just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make their opinion "asinine."

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01-17-2013, 08:44 AM
  #708
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
I think White is more likely to get significant usage on the PK than Smith.

And Cola likely won't get them over Smith either if Babcock plans to use Smith as a top-four defenseman.
Smith was a main penalty killer for Griffins. I think our management thinks that it's good to adjust him to defensive role first, offensive minutes will come later. Defense first! My prediction for Smith was 20 minutes, that was TOP4 minutes. There was two TOP6-guys lesser than that.

Quote:
Furthermore, you're handing Cola PP minutes that won't be there; Sammy's going to be that 4th PP guy.
I don't think we sign a defenceman (Cola) for 2.5 million per year for 2 years, if he isn't planned for some permanent role.

Quote:
Also, I think you are giving too many minutes to Cola and not enough to Kindl; they'll basically be sharing a spot in the lineup.
What comes to Kindl, he was the only Red Wings player that didn't convince me with his play at Europe. Babcock doesn't trust in him, so did not Holland, when he signed Carlo in front of him. He was average also in here like has been in NHL. He should have shined like Mursak did if there's some real potential hiding somewhere. 7th defenseman so far, until proven something better.

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01-17-2013, 09:16 AM
  #709
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I'm getting more and more convinced that this MacDonald situation isn't going to end well for someone, and odds are it's MacDonald. If Boucher was picked up by the Flyers only to end up in the AHL, what is going to be different for Joey Mac? Boucher doesn't have the rep as one of the best goalies around the league, but at least he has been known as a serviceable backup up until last season... Boucher is known as an NHL backup, and he's getting sent down to the AHL. MacDonald is known as a depth goalie, 3rd string, and he's expecting to get an NHL gig? I just don't see where there's a need for him anywhere.

Maybe in a few months when the Islanders need to replace Dipietro, MacDonald will be able to find himself a new team, but I just don't know what he realistically expects when he asks for a trade. Are there teams really lining up to acquire a 3rd string goalie who really has no potential at this point but thinks he deserves a spot in the NHL? I'd rather roll the dice with what I've already got, but idk... what do you guys think?

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01-17-2013, 11:31 AM
  #710
TS Quint
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I'm getting more and more convinced that this MacDonald situation isn't going to end well for someone, and odds are it's MacDonald. If Boucher was picked up by the Flyers only to end up in the AHL, what is going to be different for Joey Mac? Boucher doesn't have the rep as one of the best goalies around the league, but at least he has been known as a serviceable backup up until last season... Boucher is known as an NHL backup, and he's getting sent down to the AHL. MacDonald is known as a depth goalie, 3rd string, and he's expecting to get an NHL gig? I just don't see where there's a need for him anywhere.

Maybe in a few months when the Islanders need to replace Dipietro, MacDonald will be able to find himself a new team, but I just don't know what he realistically expects when he asks for a trade. Are there teams really lining up to acquire a 3rd string goalie who really has no potential at this point but thinks he deserves a spot in the NHL? I'd rather roll the dice with what I've already got, but idk... what do you guys think?
I think he would need to be a little more realistic. I think he just wants the NHL money. Vancouver was a good spot for him or some other team where they have a goaltender who plays 90% of the games.

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01-17-2013, 11:35 AM
  #711
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"We" should claim Haley or Newbury from waivers...



Abby - Haley/Newbury - Tootoo

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01-17-2013, 11:47 AM
  #712
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Originally Posted by TS Quint View Post
I think he would need to be a little more realistic. I think he just wants the NHL money. Vancouver was a good spot for him or some other team where they have a goaltender who plays 90% of the games.
Joey MacDonald has 1-way conract. He will get his NHL money (55% shortened-season money of 550k) even though we send him to Toledo.

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01-17-2013, 11:58 AM
  #713
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"We" should claim Haley or Newbury from waivers...



Abby - Haley/Newbury - Tootoo
Or do the sensible thing and give Sheahan a chance there.

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01-17-2013, 12:26 PM
  #714
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Or do the sensible thing and give Sheahan a chance there.
I'd rather wait another season or even two before bringing Sheahan up full time. Too many people think that top prospects need to be in the NHL now, yea if you want to waste their talent. I'm sure Detroit is trying to get Sheahan some offensive skills still and if you throw him on the 4th line he'll never get them as to getting 1st/2nd line minutes in GR. No need to rush any prospects.

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01-17-2013, 12:34 PM
  #715
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Man, I wish we were starting Nyquist. This over-ripening business is getting way old.

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01-17-2013, 12:36 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by landskronala View Post
"We" should claim Haley or Newbury from waivers...



Abby - Haley/Newbury - Tootoo
Newbury had his chance, got called up and didnt play physical really or have a fight. Hes also not scaring too many people.

In a regular year I would be all for claiming Haley as the 13th forward. Him Tootoo and Abdelkader would be one of the hardest lines to play against in the league. Haleys actually a pretty good skater, throws some big hits and a great middleweight fighter.

With all the bottom 6 type forwards though this year it seems like a waste to make that claim. But I would like the idea of that line against some teams on the wings schedule.

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Originally Posted by sully61 View Post
I'd rather wait another season or even two before bringing Sheahan up full time. Too many people think that top prospects need to be in the NHL now, yea if you want to waste their talent. I'm sure Detroit is trying to get Sheahan some offensive skills still and if you throw him on the 4th line he'll never get them as to getting 1st/2nd line minutes in GR. No need to rush any prospects.
Yeah I agree, Sheahan has been showing some legit offensive potential the last month or 2 that he couldnt really get to show at Notre Dame. I would put Sheahan at fourth line center in the playoffs with Tootoo and Abdelkader on his wings though

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01-17-2013, 01:32 PM
  #717
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Smith was a main penalty killer for Griffins. I think our management thinks that it's good to adjust him to defensive role first, offensive minutes will come later. Defense first! My prediction for Smith was 20 minutes, that was TOP4 minutes. There was two TOP6-guys lesser than that.

https://twitter.com/BradGalli/status/291189633100947457

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Brendan Smith told me the #RedWings want him to come in and be his aggressive self. "They don't want me to take a back seat."
Looks like they want him to play to his strengths right out of the gate.

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01-17-2013, 01:51 PM
  #718
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Is there a trade deadline this season? I'm assuming so, so when is it?

And on a completely different subject, what are we expecting from Filppula this season? Can he replicate his success from last year even though it looks like he's not playing with Z or Pasha?(at least not right away)


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01-17-2013, 02:12 PM
  #719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborg Yzerman View Post
Is there a trade deadline this season? I'm assuming so, so when is it?

And on a completely different subject, what are we expecting from Filppula this season? Can he replicate his success from last year even though it looks like he's not playing with Z or Pasha?(at least not right away)
1. Trade Deadline is early April.

2. I'm expecting him to produce at or near the same clip as last year.

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01-17-2013, 02:23 PM
  #720
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Originally Posted by Cyborg Yzerman View Post
Is there a trade deadline this season? I'm assuming so, so when is it?

And on a completely different subject, what are we expecting from Filppula this season? Can he replicate his success from last year even though it looks like he's not playing with Z or Pasha?(at least not right away)
i'm expecting a significant(maybe 50 or so point pace over a full season) drop in production from Filppula this year if the Wings are stubborn about leaving him at Center

if he's on the Wing I can see him getting around the same pace

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01-17-2013, 03:03 PM
  #721
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I still think it should be:
Franzen,Datsyuk, Nyquist
Filppula, Hank, Brunner
Samuelsson, Helm, Bertuzzi
Cleary, Abdel, tootoo

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01-17-2013, 03:40 PM
  #722
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Is there a trade deadline this season? I'm assuming so, so when is it?
April 3rd.

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01-17-2013, 03:41 PM
  #723
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i'm expecting a significant(maybe 50 or so point pace over a full season) drop in production from Filppula this year if the Wings are stubborn about leaving him at Center

if he's on the Wing I can see him getting around the same pace
I also predict a drop, if he is on his own line without either Datsyuk/Zetterberg.

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Old
01-17-2013, 03:42 PM
  #724
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Anyone know why Brunner isn't a rookie?

It says
Quote:
Players are only eligible if they were 26 years old or younger by September 15 of their rookie season.[1]
Brunner was 26 on September 15th of 2012.
He's even 26 until early march this year...

Or do they mean 26 years 0 days, maximum?

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01-17-2013, 08:12 PM
  #725
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Joey MacDonald has 1-way conract. He will get his NHL money (55% shortened-season money of 550k) even though we send him to Toledo.
Hopefully they let Joey split time in GR and they dump McCollum. Bust-o.

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