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One of the Most Unbreakable Gretzky Records

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Old
01-16-2013, 09:02 PM
  #51
victor
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Originally Posted by JaymzB View Post
I'll throw out the obvious disclaimer.

Playoff plus\minus wasn't recorded when Orr played.
True, although it would be hard for him to beat.

In 1971-1972, Orr had 24 points in 15 games (5 goals, 19 assists.) Fewer games, but still

In 1983-1984, Greztky scored 47 points in 18 games (17 goals, 30 assists, 25.4% shooting, )

Gretzky had 35 or more points in the playoffs 6 times. Wow.

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01-16-2013, 09:05 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by God Made Me View Post
I think One of the Most Unbreakable Gretzky Records is the number of records he holds. How many records does he hold anyways?
That entirely depends on what a record would be. (Still damn impressive)

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01-16-2013, 09:49 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by God Made Me View Post
I think One of the Most Unbreakable Gretzky Records is the number of records he holds. How many records does he hold anyways?
Besides Gretzky's 60 official records, he has countless unofficial records -- many of which (such as most 70 goal, 80 goal, and 90 goal seasons, for example) should be official records. But Gretzky set the bar higher than what was thought possible (for example his 200 point seasons), that they ("Most 200 point seasons," for example) were never made official records...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._Wayne_Gretzky

Unofficial records:

Along with his numerous official records, Wayne Gretzky also has many "unofficial" records. These other records are not recognized by the NHL Official Guide and Record Book.

Youngest player to score 50 goals in a season (19 years, two months)
Most points by an NHL player in his first year: 137. Because of Gretzky's season played in the WHA, he was not considered a rookie in his first year, so the rookie record belongs to Teemu Selanne with 132
Most assists by an NHL player in his first year: 86. The rookie record is held jointly by Peter Stastny and Joe Juneau with 70 assists. Note that the record book gives Gretzky the record for most assists and points in a game as a first year player, but not the season totals
Most 200-or-more point seasons: 4. Gretzky owns the official record for most 100 point seasons. He is the only player to reach 200 points in a season
Most consecutive 200 point seasons: 3
Most 70-or-more goal seasons: 4. The NHL has a record for most 60 goal seasons, but not 70. Eight players have achieved 70 goals, and Brett Hull did so three times.
Most consecutive 70 goal seasons: 4
Most 80-or-more goal seasons: 2
Most 90-or-more goal seasons: 1. Gretzky is the only player to achieve this
Fastest 50 goals from start of season: 50 goals in 39 games. 50 goals in 50 games is labelled as the most difficult one to break of all of Gretzky's records. The NHL has an official record for the most goals in 50 games, but not the fastest 50 goals
Fastest 100 points: 34 games in 1983–84
Most seasons averaging at least 1 point per game: 19
Most consecutive seasons averaging at least 1 point per game: 19
Most seasons averaging at least 2 points per game: 10
Most consecutive seasons averaging at least 2 points per game: 9
Most game-winning goals in the playoffs: 24 (tied with Brett Hull)
Most 100-or-more assist seasons: 11
Most consecutive 100-or-more assist seasons: 11
Most NHL and WHA regular season assists: 2,027
Most NHL and WHA regular season points: 2,967
Most NHL and WHA regular season and playoff goals: 1,072 (one more than Gordie Howe)
Most NHL and WHA regular season and playoff assists: 2,297
Most NHL and WHA regular season and playoff points: 3,369
Most MVP awards (Hart Trophy): 9
Most scoring championships (Art Ross Trophy): 10
Largest margin of victory in the scoring race: 79 (in 1983–84)
Most seasons where he was his team's leading scorer: 19
Most official NHL records: 61 on retirement, 60 at present
Highest Plus/Minus in a single playoff year: +28 (1984–85)
Highest Plus/Minus by a forward, single season: +98
Highest Plus/Minus by a forward, career: +518

The following are milestone records:

Only Player To Reach 2000 Career Points
Only Player To Reach 3000 Career Points, Regular Season and Playoffs combined
Only Player To Reach 1000 Career Goals, Regular Season and Playoffs combined
Only Player To Reach 2000 Career Assists, Regular Season and Playoffs combined

Goals

Youngest 100 Goals (20 years, 40 days)
Fastest & Youngest 200 Goals (242 games)- Modern Record, Cy Denneny scored 200 goals in 181 games, (21 years, 256 days)
Fastest & Youngest 300 Goals (350 games), (22 years, 321 days)
Fastest & Youngest 400 Goals (436 games), (23 years, 352 days)
Fastest & Youngest 500 Goals (575 games), (25 years, 299 days)
Fastest & Youngest 600 Goals (718 games, one less than Mario Lemieux), (27 years, 302 days)
Fastest & Youngest 700 Goals (886 games), (29 years, 342 days)
Fastest & Youngest 800 Goals (1116 games), (33 years, 53 days)

Assists

Fastest 100 Assists (92 games)
Fastest & Youngest 200 Assists (165 games), (20 years 265 days)
Fastest & Youngest 300 Assists (229 games), (21 years 43 days)
Fastest & Youngest 400 Assists (290 games), (21 years 362 days)
Fastest & Youngest 500 Assists (352 games), (22 years 325 days)
Fastest & Youngest 600 Assists (416 games), (23 years 307 days)
Fastest & Youngest 700 Assists (478 games), (24 years 267 days)
Fastest & Youngest 800 Assists (527 games), (25 years 11 days)
Fastest & Youngest 900 Assists (584 games), (25 years 320 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1000 Assists (645 games), (26 years 282 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1100 Assists (706 games), (27 years 276 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1200 Assists (774 games), (28 years 65 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1300 Assists (846 games), (29 years 50 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1400 Assists (913 games), (30 years 38 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1500 Assists (986 games), (31 years 38 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1600 Assists (1068 games), (32 years 308 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1700 Assists (1179 games), (34 years 267 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1800 Assists (1286 games), (35 years 322 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1900 Assists (1404 games), (37 years 54 days)

Points

Fastest 100 Points (61 games)- Modern Record, Joe Malone and Newsy Lalonde share the record by scoring 100 points in 51 games.[1]
Fastest 200 Points (117 games)
Fastest & Youngest 300 Points (159 games), (20 years, 67 days)
Fastest & Youngest 400 Points (197 games), (20 years, 335 days)
Fastest & Youngest 500 Points (234 games), (21 years, 52 days)
Fastest & Youngest 600 Points (273 games), (21 years, 330 days)
Fastest & Youngest 700 Points (317 games), (22 years, 62 days)
Fastest & Youngest 800 Points (352 games), (22 years, 325 days)
Fastest & Youngest 900 Points (385 games), (23 years, 47 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1000 Points (424 games), (23 years, 328 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1100 Points (464 games), (24 years, 50 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1200 Points (504 games), (24 years, 321 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1300 Points (539 games), (25 years, 38 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1400 Points (580 games), (25 years, 313 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1500 Points (620 games), (26 years, 44 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1600 Points (667 games), (26 years, 330 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1700 Points (711 games), (27 years, 285 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1800 Points (754 games), (28 years, 23 days)
Fastest & Youngest 1900 Points (803 games), (28 years, 318 days)
Fastest & Youngest 2000 Points (857 games), (29 years, 273 days)
Fastest & Youngest 2100 Points (908 games), (30 years, 27 days)
Fastest & Youngest 2200 Points (962 games), (30 years, 349 days)
Fastest & Youngest 2300 Points (1026 games), (32 years, 39 days)
Fastest & Youngest 2400 Points (1091 games), (32 years, 351 days)
Fastest & Youngest 2500 Points (1165 games), (34 years, 81 days)
Fastest & Youngest 2600 Points (1244 games), (35 years, 52 days)
Fastest & Youngest 2700 Points (1331 games), (36 years, 67 days)
Fastest & Youngest 2800 Points (1422 games), (37 years, 264 days)

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Old
01-16-2013, 09:58 PM
  #54
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At Crosby's age he had 1300 points.

Damn

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01-17-2013, 12:07 AM
  #55
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One of the ones I admire is the points in 51 straight games. On his website it says it was 153 points over that period...3 points a game? Crazy.
this is one of the things that I've always been most impressed about w/r/t The Great One. In his prime, he could score a goal and an assist and still call it a bad game by his standards.

Ridiculous.

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01-17-2013, 01:09 PM
  #56
Fred Taylor
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Gretzky could have retired when he was 28 and still have been the all-time point leader.

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01-17-2013, 04:01 PM
  #57
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This is the thing. Gretzky was 28 years old when he broke Howes scoring record. It took howe until he was 52 to finish his totals.

To me the most ridiculous of Gretzky's records is the 47 playoff points but if we are looking at regular season stats then how about Gretzky racking up 120 points in the first 40 games of the 83-84 season. He had enough to win the scoring title before Christmas.

I dont know how anyone ever beats that again and when we look at all these records, its not even how many he has its how ridiculous they all are compared to his closest rivals.

In any other universe Mario Lemiuex is the best player but adding in Gretzky makes Lemiuex look like a chimp. He didnt break even ONE of Gretzky's records.

In my opinion, Micheal Jordan and Roger Federer were not even as dominant in their sport as Gretzky was.

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01-17-2013, 05:15 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
In terms of single season records, I think his 163 assist season might be his most unbreakable. Only 2 other players have even cracked 100 assists, Mario once with 114 and Orr once with 102.
Absolutely. Only Lemieux has ever had that many points in a season.

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01-17-2013, 09:11 PM
  #59
tazzy19
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Originally Posted by Fred Taylor View Post
Gretzky could have retired when he was 28 and still have been the all-time point leader.
If Gretzky had retired when he was 28, these would have been (some of) his accomplishments:

* 9 Hart Trophies in 10 years

* 8 scoring titles (and tied for another his first season) in 10 years

* 10 assist titles in 10 years

* 5 goal scoring titles in 10 years.

* 4 Stanley Cups (and 5 Cup finals) in 10 years

* 51 NHL records in 10 years

* 5 playoff scoring titles in 10 years (including 2 MVPs)

* 3 Canada Cup Scoring Titles in all 3 Canada Cups (including an MVP)

There is no other player, not even Bobby Orr, who ever had that kind of success over his first 10 years. If Gretzky had retired after those first 10 years, he would have been an even bigger "what if" than Mario Lemieux ever was. He would have been projected at over 3500 career points and over 1000 goals over his career. I would say his legend would arguably have been ever greater than it is, and there would be really no debate as to who the best player of all time is. In some ways, Gretzky gets penalized for having a longer career than Orr.

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01-17-2013, 11:41 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
This is the thing. Gretzky was 28 years old when he broke Howes scoring record. It took howe until he was 52 to finish his totals.

To me the most ridiculous of Gretzky's records is the 47 playoff points but if we are looking at regular season stats then how about Gretzky racking up 120 points in the first 40 games of the 83-84 season. He had enough to win the scoring title before Christmas.

I dont know how anyone ever beats that again and when we look at all these records, its not even how many he has its how ridiculous they all are compared to his closest rivals.

In any other universe Mario Lemiuex is the best player but adding in Gretzky makes Lemiuex look like a chimp. He didnt break even ONE of Gretzky's records.

In my opinion, Micheal Jordan and Roger Federer were not even as dominant in their sport as Gretzky was.
Well, at first Lemieux broke Gretsky's PPG record, but Gretzky got it back after Marios comeback from retirement.

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01-18-2013, 01:52 AM
  #61
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take out Gretzky's 894 career goals and he still is the alltime leader in points.

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01-18-2013, 03:27 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by tazzy19 View Post
Most seasons averaging at least 2 points per game: 10


No one in today's game can do that for ONE season, let alone 10. (even if you included injury seasons with smaller sample sizes).

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01-18-2013, 08:52 AM
  #63
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Remember, folks: Wayne Gretzky is not the greatest hockey player ever. He just played in a weak era.

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01-18-2013, 12:25 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
Well, at first Lemieux broke Gretsky's PPG record, but Gretzky got it back after Marios comeback from retirement.
Yes, after Mario played some of the post-prime games Gretzky had been playing all along . Mario "broke" that record after retiring after 12 years (his first retirement). Now take a look at Gretzky's PPG average after 12 years......Gretz does more than demolish Lemieux. It's not even close.

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01-18-2013, 02:19 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Remember, folks: Wayne Gretzky is not the greatest hockey player ever. He just played in a weak era.
I know you're being sarcastic.....the sad thing is there are people here that actually BELIEVE that

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01-18-2013, 02:57 PM
  #66
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The only other athlete that can be mentioned in the same breath as Gretzky when it comes to holding records would be Wilt Chamberlain.

He held 128 League records upon retirement. Still holds or shares 72 records. When Wilt played... steals and blocked shots stats were not kept.

This being said..... 50 goals in 39 games will never ever happen again. Heck... most of us will likely never see 50 in 50 in our lifetimes again.

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01-18-2013, 03:41 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by tazzy19 View Post
If Gretzky had retired when he was 28, these would have been (some of) his accomplishments:

* 9 Hart Trophies in 10 years

* 8 scoring titles (and tied for another his first season) in 10 years

* 10 assist titles in 10 years

* 5 goal scoring titles in 10 years.

* 4 Stanley Cups (and 5 Cup finals) in 10 years

* 51 NHL records in 10 years

* 5 playoff scoring titles in 10 years (including 2 MVPs)

* 3 Canada Cup Scoring Titles in all 3 Canada Cups (including an MVP)

There is no other player, not even Bobby Orr, who ever had that kind of success over his first 10 years. If Gretzky had retired after those first 10 years, he would have been an even bigger "what if" than Mario Lemieux ever was. He would have been projected at over 3500 career points and over 1000 goals over his career. I would say his legend would arguably have been ever greater than it is, and there would be really no debate as to who the best player of all time is. In some ways, Gretzky gets penalized for having a longer career than Orr.
One of the best posts ever on HFBoards with regard to the Greatness of Gretzky. Puts to rest much of the debate of who was the greatest of all time.

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01-18-2013, 04:05 PM
  #68
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Many good records, but also many comments in here not accounting for the era he played in. Some records are in reality impossible to break nowadays, even if a superior player to Gretzky would arrive.
You have to see Gretzky in his prime to appreciate what he brought. His talent was ridiculous.

People often mention his great playmaking, underrated shot, etc. The thing that separated him from everybody else (besides vision) was agility. The man had simply unreal agility. Just crazy elusiveness.

Here's a great youtube channel with old-time Oiler highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/user/oilerfanatic1

Check out some of those clips.

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01-18-2013, 06:01 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by JMT21 View Post
The only other athlete that can be mentioned in the same breath as Gretzky when it comes to holding records would be Wilt Chamberlain.

He held 128 League records upon retirement. Still holds or shares 72 records. When Wilt played... steals and blocked shots stats were not kept.

This being said..... 50 goals in 39 games will never ever happen again. Heck... most of us will likely never see 50 in 50 in our lifetimes again.
I think his 163 assists are the record most impossible to break. The 50 in 39 I don't think I'll see it in my lifetime. However, 50 in 50 is possible. All you need is a strong half season. Lemieux and Brett Hull did it. Neely sort of did it although he missed games in between. Nicholls was a game away. Esposito was also a game away I believe. Charlie Simmer was close to it. Bossy has done it once too.

Ovechkin and Crosby have at least flirted with it. Ovechkin racked up 65 goals in 2008 (I have to admit I miss him playing like that) and had 39 in 50. Not close, but not impossible either. Crosby had 32 goals in 41 games before his injury. Again, he wasn't going to get there either. Stamkos racked up a ton of goals in the last third of the season last year in order to get 60 but considering how young he is and assuming he has some prime goal scoring years ahead of him don't be surprised if Stamkos is a player that can flirt with 50 in 50. It only has to happen once.

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01-18-2013, 06:26 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazzy19 View Post
If Gretzky had retired when he was 28, these would have been (some of) his accomplishments:

* 9 Hart Trophies in 10 years

* 8 scoring titles (and tied for another his first season) in 10 years

* 10 assist titles in 10 years

* 5 goal scoring titles in 10 years.

* 4 Stanley Cups (and 5 Cup finals) in 10 years

* 51 NHL records in 10 years

* 5 playoff scoring titles in 10 years (including 2 MVPs)

* 3 Canada Cup Scoring Titles in all 3 Canada Cups (including an MVP)

There is no other player, not even Bobby Orr, who ever had that kind of success over his first 10 years. If Gretzky had retired after those first 10 years, he would have been an even bigger "what if" than Mario Lemieux ever was. He would have been projected at over 3500 career points and over 1000 goals over his career. I would say his legend would arguably have been ever greater than it is, and there would be really no debate as to who the best player of all time is. In some ways, Gretzky gets penalized for having a longer career than Orr.
And he would have finished +553 for his career if he retired that year.

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01-18-2013, 07:07 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
Many good records, but also many comments in here not accounting for the era he played in. Some records are in reality impossible to break nowadays, even if a superior player to Gretzky would arrive.
Gretzky also does well in era-independent measures, such as

Most Seasons Leading the NHL in Assists
Wayne Gretzky - 16
Bobby Orr - 5
Lemieux, Howe, Oates, H. Sedin, Thornton, Jagr, Primeau, P. Esposito, Mikita - 3 each

This might just be Gretzky's most unbreakable record.

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01-19-2013, 12:28 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
take out Gretzky's 894 career goals and he still is the alltime leader in points.
As I wrote a while back, if Gretzky never got a point for any goal he scored, his placing in the scoring race would have been:

1981- T-5
1982 - 5
1983 - 1
1984 - T-4
1985 - T-1
1986 - 1
1987 - 1
1988 - 7
1989 - 5
1990 - T-9
1991 - 2

That gives him 3 outright wins, and a tie for a fourth, for a total of 11 finishes in the top 10 of league scoring. Three outright scoring titles is a good career for most players; to do that by only recoring assists is simply mind-boggling.

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01-19-2013, 02:53 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
Many good records, but also many comments in here not accounting for the era he played in. Some records are in reality impossible to break nowadays, even if a superior player to Gretzky would arrive.
Incorrect. Yes, the 1980s were a more high flying era with more goals (which you can even argue Gretzky himself ushered in) but when you look at the players even in the 1980s no one was touching him then either. Gretzky had the entire NHL under his thumb for more or less a decade. Only when another generational talent like Lemieux came along did Gretzky finally have a peer. All players ranging from Bossy, Dionne, Hawerchuk, Stastny, Savard, Trottier, Messier, Kurri, etc. got blown out in the scoring race as well. Look at 1982, Gretzky had 212 points while Bossy had his career best of 147. That's a difference of 65 points and that wasn't even the biggest gap between Gretzky and the second highest scorer.

There was plenty of offensive talent in the game. You can easily argue that Bossy or Dionne are the most offensive players in the NHL in 2013 in their prime. So think about that and then imagine someone who outscores THOSE guys by upwards of 100 points.

Gretzky did this as late as 1991. He had 163 points to Hull's 131. That's 32 points, and 12 years after Gretzky started his career he still was able to lap the entire field in the NHL. Now, you can't tell me there wasn't offensive talent in 1991 either. The only blip on that season is that Gretzky didn't have anywhere near a full season by Mario to compete with. But even with a full season for Mario he has "only" 139 points

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01-19-2013, 03:05 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Incorrect. Yes, the 1980s were a more high flying era with more goals (which you can even argue Gretzky himself ushered in) but when you look at the players even in the 1980s no one was touching him then either. Gretzky had the entire NHL under his thumb for more or less a decade. Only when another generational talent like Lemieux came along did Gretzky finally have a peer. All players ranging from Bossy, Dionne, Hawerchuk, Stastny, Savard, Trottier, Messier, Kurri, etc. got blown out in the scoring race as well. Look at 1982, Gretzky had 212 points while Bossy had his career best of 147. That's a difference of 65 points and that wasn't even the biggest gap between Gretzky and the second highest scorer.

There was plenty of offensive talent in the game. You can easily argue that Bossy or Dionne are the most offensive players in the NHL in 2013 in their prime. So think about that and then imagine someone who outscores THOSE guys by upwards of 100 points.

Gretzky did this as late as 1991. He had 163 points to Hull's 131. That's 32 points, and 12 years after Gretzky started his career he still was able to lap the entire field in the NHL. Now, you can't tell me there wasn't offensive talent in 1991 either. The only blip on that season is that Gretzky didn't have anywhere near a full season by Mario to compete with. But even with a full season for Mario he has "only" 139 points
i think his point was that gretzky himself could not break gretzky's records today.

but maybe the more interesting question re: scoring levels w/r/t era is if 80s gretzky had never existed and an 18 year old gretzky came into the league today, could he break the records that would belong to mario? without thinking too hard about it and scrutinizing the numbers, my gut says yes but just barely.

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01-19-2013, 03:19 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
i think his point was that gretzky himself could not break gretzky's records today.

but maybe the more interesting question re: scoring levels w/r/t era is if 80s gretzky had never existed and an 18 year old gretzky came into the league today, could he break the records that would belong to mario? without thinking too hard about it and scrutinizing the numbers, my gut says yes but just barely.
Well we really don't know if Gretzky could break these records. It is purely hypothetical. We know that three players, Thornton, Jagr and Crosby have had 120 points in a season over the last decade. Malkin led the NHL last year with 109. Gretzky we can agree was significantly better than all of them. If Mario's peak is 85 goals, 114 assists and 199 points in a season then I too believe that Gretzky at some point in his career peaks and breaks all three of them at some time. Thornton has 96 and 92 assist seasons back to back and we are wondering if Gretzky can surpass it?

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