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Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XVI

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Old
01-17-2013, 01:10 PM
  #551
capitalsrock
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Wonder if any of this could happen

Forsberg, Johansson, Ward, Kundatek, some crap prospects for Benn

Laich, Kuznetsov, Galiev, Schultz, 1st 13 for Ryan, Beauchemin

Wilson, Perreault, Neuvirth, Erskine, 1st 14, some crap prospects for O'Reilly, Giguere

beg Kostitsyn to leave Russia and sign one year on the cheap

Benn Backstrom Ovechkin
Kostitsyn Ribeiro Ryan
Chimera O'Reilly Brouwer
Hendricks Beagle Crabb

Alzner Carlson
Beauchemin Green
Hillen Orlov

Holtby
Giguere

We make Holmgren look like a prospect hoarder but thats like 3 cups right there. Then trade Green in the offseason for like 8 2nd rounders with Orlov taking his role and quietly get the farm back on track
That's just awful.

You completely destroy our roster along with 2 first rounders and all of our prospects.
I would love to see our prospect depth after these trades for the next couple of years.

None of those trades will happen.

Glad you are not our GM.

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01-17-2013, 01:19 PM
  #552
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That's just awful.

You completely destroy our roster along with 2 first rounders and all of our prospects.
I would love to see our prospect depth after these trades for the next couple of years.

None of those trades will happen.

Glad you are not our GM.
How is the roster "completely destroyed" exactly? Is replacing Johansson with Benn, Laich with O'Reilly, Fehr with Ryan and Schultz with Beauchemin really going to make us a lottery team?

I'm glad I'm not the GM too, we might not have the overwhelming history of success we've had up until this point. That would be turrble.

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01-17-2013, 01:21 PM
  #553
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
You wouldn't do it for Crosby?

Holmgren does it all the time and they've generally been ahead of the curve, ahead of us as well. I'd say it all depends on whether it improves your team or not. You can argue about whether the team is better or worse, or if the total annihilation of the farm overshadows essentially having every roster spot cemented and plated in gold. I don't see how throwing it out on the principle of more than x roster players and more than y recent picks is valid.

But no, we should hoard those roster players. They'd been so successful for us after all.
would i trade 7 roster players plus two first round first round picks from the last draft for one player? no. neither would pittsburgh. it cant happen.

if you want holmgren, you can be a flyers fan. holmgren's wheeling and dealing is in part because that fan base is conditioned to get major moves and they turn against their team. those moves have not won them a cup since greg joly played for the caps. they have certainly not won a cup in mcphee's term.

i will say that the dramatic moves of trading richards and carter certainly stirred up the flyer fan base. but its richards and carter getting cup rings and not the flyers.

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01-17-2013, 01:29 PM
  #554
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would i trade 7 roster players plus two first round first round picks from the last draft for one player? no. neither would pittsburgh. it cant happen.

if you want holmgren, you can be a flyers fan. holmgren's wheeling and dealing is in part because that fan base is conditioned to get major moves and they turn against their team. those moves have not won them a cup since greg joly played for the caps. they have certainly not won a cup in mcphee's term.

i will say that the dramatic moves of trading richards and carter certainly stirred up the flyer fan base. but its richards and carter getting cup rings and not the flyers.
No, I really thought it could happen IRL. You got me there.

Fehr, Wolski, Perreault, Schultz, Erskine, Hillen, Hamrlik. That's 7 roster players. There's nothing in the world you'd trade them for if it meant them leaving at once. Even if you're getting like 4 roster players back, so it's not like you're going into a game with 13 skaters. Got it.

Holmgren has had inarguably more success then McPhee since the lockout. Conference final, Stanley cup final. Stanley cup if he's not a retard when it comes to goaltending. No presidents' trophy though. The Carter trade was genius. The Richards trade may yet pay off. You can laugh all you want but he has more to show for it than we do for our hoarding ways. And probably will again this year.

Okay, not Holmgren? How about Lombardi? Their farm is pretty bare. I bet Kings fans are crying themselves to sleep over their best prospect being Tyler Toffoli. Doug Wilson's too. But I forgot, Sharks choke a lot (even though they tend to go further than us in the playoffs in their sleep) so his approach is also laughable.

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01-17-2013, 01:34 PM
  #555
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come on....nobody is going to trade one good player for 3 7th defensemen and 3 4th line forwards and a backup goalie.

in the real world the caps are not going to turn their team upside down by shipping off 1/3 of their roster with pieces off from the top to bottom of the lineup.

if you like holmgren's moves, the you would be excited to see mcphee trade ovechkin and backstrom on two consecutive days. eh?

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01-17-2013, 01:40 PM
  #556
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come on....nobody is going to trade one good player for 3 7th defensemen and 3 4th line forwards and a backup goalie.

in the real world the caps are not going to turn their team upside down by shipping off 1/3 of their roster with pieces off from the top to bottom of the lineup.

if you like holmgren's moves, the you would be excited to see mcphee trade ovechkin and backstrom on two consecutive days. eh?
Depends. Did they do something to force Leonsis's hand? If so, what are we getting back?

I'd be absolutely thrilled if he traded Green and Laich on consecutive days and got a Couturier and Voracek for Green and a solid top 4 defenseman for Laich. If you notice Philly was a much improved team from 2010-2011. And that's with Bryzgalov being a bigger bust than anyone thought he'd be.

Ovechkin and Backstrom is a bit of disingenious comparison though. Semin and Green from the young guns days is closer. Philly did keep Giroux after all.

This is all fantasy obviously (like every single thing ever posted on this board). I showed you the players going out, and the players coming in. If you see any defects with the projected lineup feel free to point them out. I think it's the best lineup in the league for the next 3 years at least. All players gotten back would be long term acquisitions. This isn't trading for Pronger to let him walk after a year (which you'd have been fine for, I'd have been too). Hershey would be bad, but Pittsburgh, Philly, SJ and LA did fine with bare cupboards when they were in win now modes. It certainly didn't cripple them.

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01-17-2013, 01:53 PM
  #557
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
would i trade 7 roster players plus two first round first round picks from the last draft for one player? no. neither would pittsburgh. it cant happen.

if you want holmgren, you can be a flyers fan. holmgren's wheeling and dealing is in part because that fan base is conditioned to get major moves and they turn against their team. those moves have not won them a cup since greg joly played for the caps. they have certainly not won a cup in mcphee's term.

i will say that the dramatic moves of trading richards and carter certainly stirred up the flyer fan base. but its richards and carter getting cup rings and not the flyers.
LOL. That's myopic, Tex. Flyers have been to how many Cup finals in the last 30 years?

Lets see, by my count they have been to 9 Eastern Conference Finals (to our 2), and 4 Stanley Cup Finals (to our 1).

Sure, they havent won one since 1975 (and have 2 over all...to our ZERO), but to scoff at the Flyers playoff history is stupid.

I used the 30years window as the Caps started becoming NHL relevant in 1982. So the shoe fits.

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01-17-2013, 01:59 PM
  #558
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Also some more thoughts to consider on Holmgren.

He kept Hartnell since getting him. He kept Briere. Coburn. Timonen. If you're a character guy who fits into the plan and plays his guts out in the postseason, Holmgren will keep you around. Their lineup has a lot to like. Not one flaky forward in the vein of Wolski, Fehr, Johansson or Perreault. Top 2 lines have good chemistry and are on the same page, Schenn brothers, Couturier is already an exceptional defensive C and will only get better. I think he surpasses Richards in 3 years as the latter starts to decline. Carter and Richards were traded for being massive Dbags, pretty much forced by Snyder, and got respectable return that's keeping Philly competitive. Gagne was cast away for peanuts but he sucked from that year onward. I'd gladly make an avatar bet that Giroux does not get traded until, at best, the deadline before the end of his next (8 year) contract.

Also, had they managed to pry Weber out of Poile's cold dead hands, I don't think anyone would be laughing at them right now.

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01-17-2013, 02:00 PM
  #559
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Trying to emulate the Flyers who haven't won a SC in many a moon seems like an exercise in futility.

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01-17-2013, 02:02 PM
  #560
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ok...its myopic. they havent won a cup still. they trade richards and carter to change the team and in part to make room for bryzgalov's salary. now half the flyers fan base wants bryz run out of town. already.

anyway...the question "wonder if any of this could happen". my answer is no. if it happens, i will say i am wrong. i said they couldnt trade clark and he got traded. i was wrong. wrong. i can say it again.

edit: yes. the flyers have 2 to the caps ZERO. i say again ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
that said....they won the 2nd in the caps first season and havent won anymore than the caps have since. i wasnt even in high school the last time flyers won a stanley cup.

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01-17-2013, 02:02 PM
  #561
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Originally Posted by usiel View Post
Trying to emulate the Flyers who haven't won a SC in many a moon seems like an exercise in futility.
I was thinking more like Kings.

Who should we emulate though?

There's a pretty reliable formula for getting to the conference finals, beyond that it's a coin flip that favors the roster that can still throw a check without collapsing in pain.

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01-17-2013, 02:02 PM
  #562
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Flyers turned into that team because of good drafting in the 1st and mostly Giroux developing into one of the best players in the league.

The Trades you are suggesting the caps make the flyers wouldnt have. Did the flyers trade young Giroux for Pronger? no.

caps need to keep developing their own talent if they want to maintain longterm success.

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01-17-2013, 02:03 PM
  #563
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Originally Posted by usiel View Post
Trying to emulate the Flyers who haven't won a SC in many a moon seems like an exercise in futility.
thats myopic

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01-17-2013, 02:05 PM
  #564
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Originally Posted by Ovechkins Wodka View Post
Flyers turned into that team because of good drafting in the 1st and mostly Giroux developing into one of the best players in the league.

The Trades you are suggesting the caps make the flyers wouldnt have. Did the flyers trade young Giroux for Pronger? no.

caps need to keep developing their own talent if they want to maintain longterm success.
They traded Sbisa and 2 firsts for Pronger.

If you notice 2 of the players we're getting back are younger than Giroux. A third one is one year older. The 4th one is 32 but has at least 4 years of good hockey in him.

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01-17-2013, 02:07 PM
  #565
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ok...its myopic. they havent won a cup still. they trade richards and carter to change the team and in part to make room for bryzgalov's salary. now half the flyers fan base wants bryz run out of town. already.

anyway...the question "wonder if any of this could happen". my answer is no. if it happens, i will say i am wrong. i said they couldnt trade clark and he got traded. i was wrong. wrong. i can say it again.
Why Flyers? For some reason we're skipping over the fact that none of the players getting traded from us is Richards or Carter. I'm even keeping MIKE GREEN on the roster ffs. Do you have any idea how much self control that takes? Even Orlov is still here, since I anticipate him being a crucial piece when we inevitably trade Mike Green after winning the cup to get some prospect depth back.

If you desperately want another team to peg it to Kings are a much more intellectually honest choice than the Flyers. Napalmed their cupboard, but got every major position filled for the next decade with players they don't need to worry about upgrading. Same here. I wasn't looking at anyone's model.

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01-17-2013, 02:08 PM
  #566
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Originally Posted by Ovechkins Wodka View Post
Flyers turned into that team because of good drafting in the 1st and mostly Giroux developing into one of the best players in the league.

The Trades you are suggesting the caps make the flyers wouldnt have. Did the flyers trade young Giroux for Pronger? no.

caps need to keep developing their own talent if they want to maintain longterm success.
caps parallel would be kuznetsov comes in and becomes a top player, then backstrom and ovechkin are traded to change the culture

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01-17-2013, 02:10 PM
  #567
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caps parallel would be kuznetsov comes in and becomes a top player, then backstrom and ovechkin are traded to change the culture
Nowhere am I suggesting anything like that though.

Also if Kuznetsov becomes a far and away best player on the roster, that move becomes a lot less far fetched, since either Ovechkin and Backstrom have regressed to 60 point players or Kuznetsov is the next Mario Lemieux.

Also Ovechkin and Backstrom get smashed before every game in this scenario.

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01-17-2013, 02:14 PM
  #568
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Trying to emulate the Flyers who haven't won a SC in many a moon seems like an exercise in futility.
versus no Moons?

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01-17-2013, 02:16 PM
  #569
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versus no Moons?
Okay, remind me of the crazy trades the Flyers did to win their previous Stanley Cups.

Let alone trading 2 guys that are easily 30g/20g guys for a 30g ceiling guy.

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01-17-2013, 02:24 PM
  #570
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versus no Moons?
one moon vs no moons. one moon the day the caps were born. really, its not a big difference.
for context. since 1990 the flyers have been to the stanley cup finals twice. the caps once.
in those two finals appearances they were swept by the wings in one and lost 4-2 in the other.


Last edited by txpd: 01-17-2013 at 02:30 PM.
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01-17-2013, 02:26 PM
  #571
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ok...its myopic. they havent won a cup still. they trade richards and carter to change the team and in part to make room for bryzgalov's salary. now half the flyers fan base wants bryz run out of town. already.

anyway...the question "wonder if any of this could happen". my answer is no. if it happens, i will say i am wrong. i said they couldnt trade clark and he got traded. i was wrong. wrong. i can say it again.

edit: yes. the flyers have 2 to the caps ZERO. i say again ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
that said....they won the 2nd in the caps first season and havent won anymore than the caps have since. i wasnt even in high school the last time flyers won a stanley cup.
LOL. I like the response

You're right, it wont happen....all those trades. But the point is more that it would be "nice" were something like that to happen. Something aggressive to help this team give it a real shot at the cup.

I know GMGM "kind of" tried going into last season. He signed Ward, Hamrlik, and Vokoun (am I missing someone?)...oh yeah, and traded for Brouwer.

And then this off-season...crickets, for the most part.

We have a LOT of assets that could fetch some amazing NHL talent now, to give our star players -- Ovechkin/Backstrom-- a better chance to be ring bearers now. Halpys listed those assets, and its impressive.

But, we sit.

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01-17-2013, 02:28 PM
  #572
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Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'd trade one Cup this year for the next 30 of trying hard to win, but not succeeding.

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01-17-2013, 02:32 PM
  #573
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Okay, remind me of the crazy trades the Flyers did to win their previous Stanley Cups.

Let alone trading 2 guys that are easily 30g/20g guys for a 30g ceiling guy.
LOL. NOT. THE. POINT.

GO back and see where this all started. Halpysback wants to shake up this team by trading some of our chips for some bonafide NHL stars.

That theory makes sense, to me.

TXPD lamented that it didnt help the Flyers last year. Arguably its not the same thing, as the Flyers actually traded the NHL stars for young pieces. We'd do the opposite (kinda like what the LA Kings did, and voila! for them).

Caps need to *really* start going for the brass ring as we are knee deep in Ovechkin and Backstrom's primes. They ain't getting better, I wouldnt think.

So lets augment the line up to play towards that, instead of sitting on our thumbs.

THAT was halpysback's point, and Tex and I hi-jacked this thread over whether or not the Flyers have had a more viable past/present than we do (they do, I think)

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01-17-2013, 02:35 PM
  #574
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one moon vs no moons. one moon the day the caps were born. really, its not a big difference.
for context. since 1990 the flyers have been to the stanley cup finals twice. the caps once.
in those two finals appearances they were swept by the wings in one and lost 4-2 in the other.
its actually 2 moons, but you are accurate in how far back.

Since 1990, the Flyers have been to 6 ECF's. Winning 2. Caps have been to 1...least they won it, right?

Anyway, this isnt *really* about Flyers v Caps. It's about GMGM sending out some of these nuts to acquire top NHL talent now, to allow for the Ovechkin/Backstrom years to NOT be the "what if" years. They are fast becoming that now, arent they (what if we traded for Pronger in 2008...you Tex yourself say that).

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01-17-2013, 02:47 PM
  #575
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if we can land a top talent and hold onto kuyza and FF im all for it

Maybe the BB factor will help if ducks fire sell happens

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