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Old
01-17-2013, 02:32 PM
  #951
TheGoalJudge
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I really hope Bergevin doesn't cave because he thinks we need Subban from day 1 in our quest for the cup this year. We're not going anywhere this year, let's use the games as our leverage instead of his.

Subban wants to play. Hopefully Bergevin realizes that we'll get a better deal if he lets Subban just sit there while we play hockey.

It's very clear that Meehan is using this short training camp preparation period as a pressure tactic to get a sweet deal. He figures Bergevin has to give in to whatever they want in order to get their #1 Dman back into the team.

Well guess what Meehan! We're tanking so you can sit there all year if you want. Oh how I wish lol.

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01-17-2013, 02:33 PM
  #952
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Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
That is pretty much the crux of it, but I think MB's job is for the 'greater good' so to speak I guess.

In a market like Montreal I don't want money to be something the fans can take shots at that's all. It's too easy of a subject to bring up. It ruins players imo.
Have you been paying attention to the NHL since the last lockout? It doesn't matter if he's in Montreal or anywhere else...EVERYONE thinks they're a salary cap expert now.

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01-17-2013, 02:33 PM
  #953
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
What if he did not asked for more money, but for a longer term?

You just make assumptions.
We're all making assumptions really though...it's tough without the numbers.

At this point I think it's that MB wants him to sign a 2 year deal to keep him an RFA and PK wants to skip that part.

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01-17-2013, 02:36 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Have you been paying attention to the NHL since the last lockout? It doesn't matter if he's in Montreal or anywhere else...EVERYONE thinks they're a salary cap expert now.
I don't profess to be a cap expert, but I think MB holds all the leverage in this negotiation simply because PK is an RFA.

I think our GM factors our market into the way we do things 100% Let another GM sign him to an offer sheet then. He might be worth more to another team and we'll have to match it, he is entitled to that. But you said it yourself that is unlikely.

Again, MB holds the hammer.

I don't want you guys to get upset heh, i'm simply saying that PK's agent has his own interest in mind, and MB has the habs. Trust me I will be the first guy to criticize MB and Molson for being a cheap ass if they lowball PK and then don't spend to the cap in the coming years to make our team competitive overall.

At this point I simply think MB deserves a chance to put his philosophy into practice. If it was PG lowballing PK I would be all over him because of PG's track record lol.

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01-17-2013, 02:36 PM
  #955
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That is the path he chose bud. I'm not a professional hockey player. I'm not a contract employee. In the NHL this is the way it works when he is an RFA.I'm assuming the habs made an offer, I'm not saying that the habs made a fantastic offer, but I do believe that they want to bridge him and money aside that is a problem for PK. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Exactly...PK Subban IS a professional hockey player and he's entitled to hold out to get paid as much as feels he's worth

IF PK was holding out for more money WHILE under contract, then I could totally understand all the character assinations he's received...but he's not, his contract expired and he's trying to negotiate the best deal for him. Those are the rights afforded to him under the collective bargaining agreement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
I don't profess to be a cap expert, but I think MB holds all the leverage in this negotiation simply because PK is an RFA.

I think our GM factors our market into the way we do things 100% Let another GM sign him to an offer sheet then. He might be worth more to another team and we'll have to match it, he is entitled to that. But you said it yourself that is unlikely.

Again, MB holds the hammer.

I don't want you guys to get upset heh, i'm simply saying that PK's agent has his own interest in mind, and MB has the habs. Trust me I will be the first guy to criticize MB and Molson for being a cheap ass if they lowball PK and then don't spend to the cap in the coming years to make our team competitive overall.
I'm not upset at all, this is a very healthy debate which i've enjoyed

As for the rest of your argument...i'm not entirely sure that MB holds the hammer per say. Subban has plenty of ammunition too

That's why we're at a standstill

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Old
01-17-2013, 02:40 PM
  #956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Patrick Caisse ‏@PatrickCaisse
#Subban : Don Meehan just told me that there's no progress AND that there's no meeting/discussion planned with #Habs.
I dislike Meehan. He seems to be the one trying to gamble with Bergevin (and so far cudos to MB for standing his ground).

PK, from what we've seen has always spoken about working hard just to get to the NHL, him and his brothers. Comes from a very well-grounded family, doesn't seem greedy, rather reasonable (which is what everyone is asking for). His father seems to have instilled in him a good work ethic and the need to earn your keep so all this really seems like PK being wagged by Meehan, since in theory, Meehan does think that PK could/should get a massive deal (and it's his job I guess. Agents ).

Every day we hear something very discouraging from Meehan that reeeeeks of a strategy to galvanize fans who have no understanding of either the cap, that we have to pay players in the future, or both, to protest la Kovalev to sign PK to whatever he wants.

We finally have a season. Finally opening at home. Against a bitter rival (to me at least tied with Boston by virtue of the fallout I have to/get to deal with), also his hometown team. Player intros will be made. It's always an awesome ceremony (unlike the leafs'...so so very sad). No PK Subban.

THIS SUCKKKS!

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Old
01-17-2013, 02:41 PM
  #957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Exactly...PK Subban IS a professional hockey player and he's entitled to hold out to get paid as much as feels he's worth

IF PK was holding out for more money WHILE under contract, then I could totally understand all the character assinations he's received...but he's not, his contract expired and he's trying to negotiate the best deal for him. Those are the rights afforded to him under the collective bargaining agreement
Yes he is entitled to sit and not make anything, you're right. And he will also be entitled to leave when he is a UFA, which I hope he doesn't do one day but I wouldn't bet on that.

I'm not sure how smart it is for him to hold out though...moneywise it might work but again...I don't know, maybe the fans will be happy to see him back but maybe they won't. That's what i'm scared of i guess. And it's likely what MB is afraid of too.

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01-17-2013, 02:44 PM
  #958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
I dislike Meehan. He seems to be the one trying to gamble with Bergevin (and so far cudos to MB for standing his ground).

PK, from what we've seen has always spoken about working hard just to get to the NHL, him and his brothers. Comes from a very well-grounded family, doesn't seem greedy, rather reasonable (which is what everyone is asking for). His father seems to have instilled in him a good work ethic and the need to earn your keep so all this really seems like PK being wagged by Meehan, since in theory, Meehan does think that PK could/should get a massive deal (and it's his job I guess. Agents ).

Every day we hear something very discouraging from Meehan that reeeeeks of a strategy to galvanize fans who have no understanding of either the cap, that we have to pay players in the future, or both, to protest la Kovalev to sign PK to whatever he wants.

We finally have a season. Finally opening at home. Against a bitter rival (to me at least tied with Boston by virtue of the fallout I have to/get to deal with), also his hometown team. Player intros will be made. It's always an awesome ceremony (unlike the leafs'...so so very sad). No PK Subban.

THIS SUCKKKS!
I doubt his father told him to have no self-respect either, i'm sure his father also told him to believe in himself...why do you assume he's being greedy?

Why don't you assume he just wants to get compensated for what HE thinks is fair?

We as fans shouldn't intertwine what we want as fans...with what a player thinks he sould be compensated for his services.

Contracts are between team and player...not between player/fan & team/fan

Not to sound like an ass...but this doesn't concern you.

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01-17-2013, 02:44 PM
  #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Exactly...PK Subban IS a professional hockey player and he's entitled to hold out to get paid as much as feels he's worth

IF PK was holding out for more money WHILE under contract, then I could totally understand all the character assinations he's received...but he's not, his contract expired and he's trying to negotiate the best deal for him. Those are the rights afforded to him under the collective bargaining agreement



I'm not upset at all, this is a very healthy debate which i've enjoyed

As for the rest of your argument...i'm not entirely sure that MB holds the hammer per say. Subban has plenty of ammunition too

That's why we're at a standstill
I've enjoyed it as well, I like arguing both sides of any argument at times and you guys have presented your side very well imo.

In the end if PK indeed does hold out it will be interesting to see the events that unfold one way or the other.

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01-17-2013, 02:46 PM
  #960
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Louis Jean ‏@LouisJean_TVA

Seems highly doubtful at this point that @PKSubban1 signs with #Canadiens before season opener. Significant gulf remains.

Patrick Caisse ‏@PatrickCaisse

#Subban : Don Meehan just told me that there's no progress AND that there's no meeting/discussion planned with #Habs.

Great start to year, looking forward to seeing Kaberle playing big minutes in our top 4 now...

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Old
01-17-2013, 02:47 PM
  #961
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Ultimately, I will just claim one thing:

PK is in his right to demand what he wants. And so is Bergevin's right to refuse such terms.

Vice-Versa.

I don't care if PK does get signed long or short term. But I am not gonna give MB a free pass just because he wants to be dogmatic about some sort of "structure"

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01-17-2013, 02:47 PM
  #962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I doubt his father told him to have no self-respect either, i'm sure his father also told him to believe in himself...why do you assume he's being greedy?

Why don't you assume he just wants to get compensated for what HE thinks is fair?
But we don't know what he thinks is fair right? The only thing we can deduce is that the habs have offered him a contract and he has refused it and it looks like they are far apart.

And I think the habs want a short term deal to keep him an RFA - true?

And PK's camp doesn't want that - true?

So those are the only valid assumptions on either side of the argument - true?

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01-17-2013, 02:48 PM
  #963
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So much for the guy who "booked it" that Subban signs by today lol

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01-17-2013, 02:48 PM
  #964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Chainz View Post
Louis Jean ‏@LouisJean_TVA

Seems highly doubtful at this point that @PKSubban1 signs with #Canadiens before season opener. Significant gulf remains.

Patrick Caisse ‏@PatrickCaisse

#Subban : Don Meehan just told me that there's no progress AND that there's no meeting/discussion planned with #Habs.

Great start to year, looking forward to seeing Kaberle playing big minutes in our top 4 now...
Look at it this way:

Tank or Trade.

either way, it might not mean a bad thing!

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01-17-2013, 02:49 PM
  #965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Ultimately, I will just claim one thing:

PK is in his right to demand what he wants. And so is Bergevin's right to refuse such terms.

Vice-Versa.

I don't care if PK does get signed long or short term. But I am not gonna give MB a free pass just because he wants to be dogmatic about some sort of "structure"
Really tough to judge...we haven't had MB making decisions for us...I gotta have 'faith' that he knows what he is doing...then i'll be his biggest critic lol.

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01-17-2013, 02:49 PM
  #966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
I really hope Bergevin doesn't cave because he thinks we need Subban from day 1 in our quest for the cup this year. We're not going anywhere this year, let's use the games as our leverage instead of his.

Subban wants to play. Hopefully Bergevin realizes that we'll get a better deal if he lets Subban just sit there while we play hockey.

It's very clear that Meehan is using this short training camp preparation period as a pressure tactic to get a sweet deal. He figures Bergevin has to give in to whatever they want in order to get their #1 Dman back into the team.

Well guess what Meehan! We're tanking so you can sit there all year if you want. Oh how I wish lol.
Disagree.

But IF we're going somewhere, it's with PK Subban, possibly from day 1. Think of what the standings might look like on the last day of the season playing...yup...the leafs. Do we really want to make that a game 7? Not that the excitement wouldn't be great, but I'd rather be in and Prust making golf swings just subtle enough not to get suspended.)


We are not tanking. We need Subban. This is not a good situation for MB by any means given the obstinate posture of Meehan.

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01-17-2013, 02:49 PM
  #967
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Meanwhile Dallas getting one of their stars signed...

Nick Kypreos ‏@RealKyper

Sure sounds like #Stars deal with Jamie Benn getting finalized. Latest Dal offer I heard was 33M. Look for cap hit around 5.5M for 5/6 yrs

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01-17-2013, 02:49 PM
  #968
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^

And more leverage for Subban with the Benn news if that is the signing. Just wait once this team starts 1-3-1 or something and he'll have even more.

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01-17-2013, 02:49 PM
  #969
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Originally Posted by 2 Chainz View Post
Louis Jean ‏@LouisJean_TVA

Seems highly doubtful at this point that @PKSubban1 signs with #Canadiens before season opener. Significant gulf remains.

Patrick Caisse ‏@PatrickCaisse

#Subban : Don Meehan just told me that there's no progress AND that there's no meeting/discussion planned with #Habs.

Great start to year, looking forward to seeing Kaberle playing big minutes in our top 4 now...
The best way to trade Kaberle is to play him a lot early on and move him once Subban signs. He won't raise his value playing 12 minutes a night.

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01-17-2013, 02:51 PM
  #970
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The best way to trade Kaberle is to play him a lot early on and move him once Subban signs. He won't raise his value playing 12 minutes a night.
Aye. It would leave room for Diaz to be promoted, and PG/MB will have done the legendary task of turning lead (Spacek) into.. well, something that is not lead

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01-17-2013, 02:52 PM
  #971
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Nick Kypreos ‏@RealKyper
Sure sounds like #Stars deal with Jamie Benn getting finalized. Latest Dal offer I heard was 33M. Look for cap hit around 5.5M for 5/6 yrs

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01-17-2013, 02:54 PM
  #972
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^

And more leverage for Subban with the Benn news if that is the signing. Just wait once this team starts 1-3-1 or something and he'll have even more.
It's looking more and more like Bergevin will have to give in and sign him for 5-6 years. All the young guys in PK's situation are getting long term 5+ mil deals...except MDZ

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01-17-2013, 02:55 PM
  #973
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So much for the guy who "booked it" that Subban signs by today lol
Days still not over...

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01-17-2013, 02:55 PM
  #974
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Aye. It would leave room for Diaz to be promoted, and PG/MB will have done the legendary task of turning lead (Spacek) into.. well, something that is not lead
Spacek was useless. Kaberle is a useful and productive NHLer when used properly.

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01-17-2013, 02:56 PM
  #975
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I really hope Bergevin doesn't cave - PK is an ego-maniac who thinks he's bigger than the team. There'a a reason he got in the most fights last year during practices - teammates think he's a hot dog. Bergevin has to stick to his guns or trade him to the Oilers - Yakupov wouldn't be a bad fit here with Galyenchuk at center for the next 5 years.
It really pisses me off that one player could be so selfish after only 2 years in the league - let him rot.

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