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Leafs looking into Bernier

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Old
01-16-2013, 05:09 PM
  #26
savemefromtears
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Bernier ain't going anywhere.

a) Quick just had surgery
b) In this short season we'll need him to pull his weight as a #2
c) Bernier still has to prove he can be a badass #1 on another team, thus:
d) His trade-value isn't what it should be at the moment

Let's re-visit this thread around the deadline, shall we?


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01-16-2013, 05:46 PM
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The thing is that Bernier has to sign the contract. Don't you believe he can get more than that from another team or 50 percent more if he holds off and waits until his UFA years?
Me, I absolutely think he can.

I just thing it is an interesting idea. The Leafs would have to make an offersheet that they believe we would back away from and that JB would sign and in doing so would likely end up giving us what we would want if not more in compensation.

I don't see JB wanting to gamble with waiting for UFA status unless he gets several starts between now and the end of next season. That said I would be willing to bet that he can do better than $3m per if he signed an ltr today. Not much but better depending on the terms.

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01-16-2013, 06:00 PM
  #28
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Right now, I don't want to trade Johnny B. Quick coming off surgery concerns me a little bit. We need Bernier if Quickie isn't 100%

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01-16-2013, 06:42 PM
  #29
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Seriously, I just want to see Bernie play some games. Either his stock will rise or fall, either way, we'll know for sure.

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01-16-2013, 06:48 PM
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I'm thinking that if the Kings move Bernier, it will be around the trade deadline (which will in April this year) or during the off-season. The Kings will have a better idea of Quick's durability by the time the trade deadline rolls around. They can then address whatever it is that the team needs at that point to gear up for another deep playoff run.

Bernier's value may also increase next offseason depending on how certain goalies perform this season. If Crawford struggles in Chicago and Reimer fails to capture the starting role in Toronto, that can start a bidding war for Bernier. No sense in rushing into a decision now, especially when the only immediate need on the roster is someone to fill in for Willie Mitchell, and bringing in a replacement is only a temporary solution. We all know that Lombardi isn't going to trade Bernier for a rental.

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01-17-2013, 12:15 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I'm thinking that if the Kings move Bernier, it will be around the trade deadline (which will in April this year) or during the off-season. The Kings will have a better idea of Quick's durability by the time the trade deadline rolls around. They can then address whatever it is that the team needs at that point to gear up for another deep playoff run.

Bernier's value may also increase next offseason depending on how certain goalies perform this season. If Crawford struggles in Chicago and Reimer fails to capture the starting role in Toronto, that can start a bidding war for Bernier. No sense in rushing into a decision now, especially when the only immediate need on the roster is someone to fill in for Willie Mitchell, and bringing in a replacement is only a temporary solution. We all know that Lombardi isn't going to trade Bernier for a rental.
Totally agree! Plus having just watched the CHL prospects game I would like to see LA wait til maybe even the draft to move Bernier. Some solid youngsters with top 6 potential and Ryan Hartman reminds me of a young Dustin Brown

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01-17-2013, 04:38 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Actually from the main trade board, but figured it'd be good to start a thread not filled with Leafs fans telling us to take Clarke MacArthur...

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1324341

While I do debate the value of even tarding Bernier, if we did deal him I wonder what the Leafs have we'd want.

I like Frattin, but I just don't know where we'd place him on this team. Maybe deal for him and just find room with Nolan on the farm and hope Frattin could replace Penner or Gagne next year?

Anyways, stab in the dark here at a trade proposal:

Bernier for Frattin and Tyler Biggs and a 2nd?
Bernier for Frattin and a 1st?
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
The offer sheet would be a worry to me. I could see Bernier signing a long-term offer and if the other team was convinced as we are that Bernier can be a starter in this league, a $3 million price tag is nothing, and a 2nd round pick is nothing to pay for a guy you think could be a good NHL starter who is only 24.

Could be incentive for DL to get a deal done, but I agree, wait until the tarde deadline or after we get bumped out of the playoffs.
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Oh I think we would match. I think DL would look at it more from the complications it would create having a backup on the roster making $3 million per who will likely only get 10-20 games a year, barring injury. This is compounded by the fact that we will be in a tight cap situation next year barring trades or letting Scuds, Penner and/or Gagne walk, all of which have to be replaced.

An additional factor is that Bernier's tarde value will decrease the higher his contract goes. If we keep him at $3 million per season, not as many teams will be willing to take a chance on him in hopes he can pan out as a starter as that is increased risk, especially if the offer is a long-term deal. If DL deals Bernier though after the season, then the acquiring team can try and negotiate a deal exclusively, one that they could stomach more, or even negotiate a contract as part of the deal.
Sorry, man. I don't mean to bust your balls, but this made me laugh. Multiple times.

Carry on.

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01-17-2013, 09:38 AM
  #33
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Sorry, man. I don't mean to bust your balls, but this made me laugh. Multiple times.

Carry on.
LOL. I get picked on by some of my buds for the same thing. I constantly misspell that word. It's gotten to be a running joke. Thanks for the laugh.

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01-17-2013, 11:05 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I'm thinking that if the Kings move Bernier, it will be around the trade deadline (which will in April this year) or during the off-season. The Kings will have a better idea of Quick's durability by the time the trade deadline rolls around. They can then address whatever it is that the team needs at that point to gear up for another deep playoff run.

Bernier's value may also increase next offseason depending on how certain goalies perform this season. If Crawford struggles in Chicago and Reimer fails to capture the starting role in Toronto, that can start a bidding war for Bernier. No sense in rushing into a decision now, especially when the only immediate need on the roster is someone to fill in for Willie Mitchell, and bringing in a replacement is only a temporary solution. We all know that Lombardi isn't going to trade Bernier for a rental.
On other hand if Reimer and Crawford play more like 2010/11 selfs then both those teams probably drop out of Bernier sweepstakes

I think Hawks/Kings are best fit but dont think Hawks would be willing to move our 2013 1st (Hawks already lack 2nd/3rd rounders) nor any of our top prospects (Saad/TT/Danault)

I think Hawks could offer a reasonable deal at deadline this year since we can at least provide Kings with vet backup to take spot of Bernier (Emery)

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01-17-2013, 11:24 AM
  #35
etherialone
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Leafs making more moves today.

Phil K would be a nice move. Blockbuster. We could send back an interesting package.

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01-17-2013, 11:59 AM
  #36
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Calgary is putting Karlson and Irving on waivers today. Kings might want to take a look for a little depth in Manchester if they fall through waivers.

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01-17-2013, 12:41 PM
  #37
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What the **** is Calgary doing?

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01-17-2013, 12:47 PM
  #38
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To answer those wondering what the Flames are doing, here is Bob McKenzie's take:
https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/s...76325726629888
Quote:
I suspect one of CGY's well-travelled but resilient AHL netminders - Barry Brust or Danny Taylor - may get an NHL contract at some point.
Rather funny how these former duds in net for the Kings turned out to become decent goaltenders at the AHL level.

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01-17-2013, 02:15 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Leafs making more moves today.

Phil K would be a nice move. Blockbuster. We could send back an interesting package.
Why shake things up that much after winning the Cup? This core works, let's not mess with it.

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01-17-2013, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
On other hand if Reimer and Crawford play more like 2010/11 selfs then both those teams probably drop out of Bernier sweepstakes

I think Hawks/Kings are best fit but dont think Hawks would be willing to move our 2013 1st (Hawks already lack 2nd/3rd rounders) nor any of our top prospects (Saad/TT/Danault)

I think Hawks could offer a reasonable deal at deadline this year since we can at least provide Kings with vet backup to take spot of Bernier (Emery)
I think if DL can get a copmparible offer from outside the conference he takes it. Bernier has a big chance of biting us in the ass if we deal him to a conference foe. I could see CHicago having to pay more than say Toronto as a result.

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Calgary is putting Karlson and Irving on waivers today. Kings might want to take a look for a little depth in Manchester if they fall through waivers.
Irving hasn't played much this year. I think he'll clear. If he does clear though I'd be for us picking him up in a trade so we can have him in the system as an option in the event of injury. That kid was lights up in junior and I always felt he had what it took to be an NHL number one. His big problem was always between his ears, especially with the issue of confidence in himself. Gets down on himself to much at times and it affects his play. A pep talk with JQ could help with that.

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Why shake things up that much after winning the Cup? This core works, let's not mess with it.
Let's also not get to complacent. If we have a chance to move out Penner and bring in Kessel, I'm all for that (obviously we'd need to add substancially to that package). You can't just expect the same results with the same players to be guaranteed. Tinking a bit is ok. It also keeps players on their toes. Read the comments about complacency under Terry Murray that players had. Change to DS and this started to improve.

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01-17-2013, 02:57 PM
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Why shake things up that much after winning the Cup? This core works, let's not mess with it.
Adding PhilK or Iggy wouldn't do anything to our core. If Gagne were moved as part of a deal it would be like adding through subtraction.

I am not advocating a deal, just saying that there are allot of rumors floating around that are interesting.

The chemistry of our locker room is what I would want to be very certain about before I made any deal(s). If I wasn't certain that I could keep everyone in perfect harmony like I wouldn't do anything at all.

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01-17-2013, 02:57 PM
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Let's also not get to complacent. If we have a chance to move out Penner and bring in Kessel, I'm all for that (obviously we'd need to add substancially to that package). You can't just expect the same results with the same players to be guaranteed. Tinking a bit is ok. It also keeps players on their toes. Read the comments about complacency under Terry Murray that players had. Change to DS and this started to improve.
Let's be realistic here. Dustin Penner is not going to be the centerpiece to a trade for Phil Kessel. In all likelihood it would have to be Mike Richards. It would be a major shakeup of the core.

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01-17-2013, 03:00 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Adding PhilK or Iggy wouldn't do anything to our core. If Gagne were moved as part of a deal it would be like adding through subtraction.

I am not advocating a deal, just saying that there are allot of rumors floating around that are interesting.

The chemistry of our locker room is what I would want to be very certain about before I made any deal(s). If I wasn't certain that I could keep everyone in perfect harmony like I wouldn't do anything at all.
Iginla maybe, but there is no way Kessel ever becomes a King without us giving up an important piece of our core.

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01-17-2013, 03:06 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by DimMak187 View Post
Let's be realistic here. Dustin Penner is not going to be the centerpiece to a trade for Phil Kessel. In all likelihood it would have to be Mike Richards. It would be a major shakeup of the core.
That isn't necessarily true.

The key pieces of a deal for PK, a pending UFA (one season left) for TO would be based around youth (the new GM's obvious direction). I am not saying it would or wouldn't Penner or Gagne as a vet returning but if TO were to be able to get a package where they received a vet on a cheap expiring contract who can play on their top six as well as addressing other needs through a few of our prospects it could help get them back to good sooner rather than later.

Of course we may not be able to offer up the best package but who knows?

If the Leafs deal PK it wouldn't be for another vet, not at this point or at least not one they want for the long haul. I think they will be dealing his expiring contract to get younger and cheaper.

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01-17-2013, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
That isn't necessarily true.

The key pieces of a deal for PK, a pending UFA (one season left) for TO would be based around youth (the new GM's obvious direction). I am not saying it would or wouldn't Penner or Gagne as a vet returning but if TO were to be able to get a package where they received a vet on a cheap expiring contract who can play on their top six as well as addressing other needs through a few of our prospects it could help get them back to good sooner rather than later.

Of course we may not be able to offer up the best package but who knows?

If the Leafs deal PK it wouldn't be for another vet, not at this point or at least not one they want for the long haul. I think they will be dealing his expiring contract to get younger and cheaper.
Maybe you're right about Toronto looking for more youth, but I just don't think we have the youth to get a deal like that done anymore.

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01-17-2013, 03:28 PM
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Maybe you're right about Toronto looking for more youth, but I just don't think we have the youth to get a deal like that done anymore.
Who knows.

Maybe a deal where we sent (and this is just speculation) one of Gagne or Penner to TO along with a package that had one or more (depending on who) JB Loktionov Richardson a D prospect etc would be enough to interest them.

The Leafs need everything so who knows?

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01-17-2013, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Who knows.

Maybe a deal where we sent (and this is just speculation) one of Gagne or Penner to TO along with a package that had one or more (depending on who) JB Loktionov Richardson a D prospect etc would be enough to interest them.

The Leafs need everything so who knows?
There is absolutely no way the Leafs move Kessel for that type of return. They dealt two #1 picks to bring in Kessel who was by far their best player last season (and put up impressive numbers on an inept team).

I imagine they'll lock up Kessel and build the team around him and Phaneuf. Those two are their building blocks, and they're both entering their prime. Kessel is 25 and locked up for another two years. I'm sure they will work on a max length extension at the end of this season.

If the Leafs were to consider moving Kessel, they're going to ask for Dustin Brown or Mike Richards as a starting point. The Kings aren't going to do that.

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01-17-2013, 05:41 PM
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Let's be realistic here. Dustin Penner is not going to be the centerpiece to a trade for Phil Kessel. In all likelihood it would have to be Mike Richards. It would be a major shakeup of the core.
God help me. I am a Kings fan because of Richards but if he came to Toronto I couldn't cheer for him anymore.

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01-17-2013, 05:46 PM
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There is absolutely no way the Leafs move Kessel for that type of return. They dealt two #1 picks to bring in Kessel who was by far their best player last season (and put up impressive numbers on an inept team).

I imagine they'll lock up Kessel and build the team around him and Phaneuf. Those two are their building blocks, and they're both entering their prime. Kessel is 25 and locked up for another two years. I'm sure they will work on a max length extension at the end of this season.

If the Leafs were to consider moving Kessel, they're going to ask for Dustin Brown or Mike Richards as a starting point. The Kings aren't going to do that.
By two years you mean this 48 game season and next season.

You may be right but I don't see it as being so much of a definite thing as you do. The Leafs want need JB and have little depth up the middle along with other issues. Nonis is the polar opposite of Burke and is looking to rebuild the Leafs based around developing the talented kids that they have and adding to them to build the core that it will take to become a legitimate contender again.

Kessel will be 27 at the end of his contract and the Leafs will still be rebuilding, do you think he will want to stay in TO hoping that the rebuild will get him a shot at the cup?

Maybe I guess but I can't see Kessel being willing to lock up long term for a rebuild that will take him past his prime contract year (typically at or around 28yo).

I see him wanting to at the very least test free agency. I don't see the Leafs wanting to get back another player who will be likely to want to leave during their rebuild but I guess that depends on how much of a rebuild they do. Of course then they also risk losing PK for nothing and that would be a true disaster.

I believe that Nonis is going to take the young talent that the Leafs currently possess and spend the next two seasons (or more) developing a core to build a team around. The Leafs do have a few talented kids (very few) that should be the start of a rebuild but they haven't anyone in their system who is a legitimate #1 center (highest draft pick they can get this year will solve that problem, several great kids in the top ten) but it will take time for him to develop. They don't have a legitimate #1 starting goaltending candidate in their system either and they lack depth on D and in the rest of the prospect pool.

They need allot and getting a return of talented young players is what I believe they will be looking to do though, as I have said they will have plenty to chose from if/when they put PK on offer.

I just don't see them trying to build around PK when their needs are so many. Moving him to address their needs with high end young talented players/picks will get them to the promised land much faster then continuing to do the sort of half tailed semi rebuilds that they have been for the past 10 plus years.

I mean we watched our Kings do exactly what the Leafs have been doing with the exact same results until we decided to quit messing around and actually build a contender. Nonis is a smart guy and a good GM and I think he will do the same thing.

We may not be the perfect fit but I don't see them keeping Kessel nor do I see them wanting another 28+ year old player to be used as the core of their team (basing that on it taking at least 2 to 3yrs for the Leafs to become competitive if not longer).

I see them rebuilding around what they already have and then adding the best young talent and high end prospect that they can get which imo should take them about 3/4 more seasons to accomplish. Kessel will be lost to free agency by then imo.

I think they will deal him soon enough to get back more pieces that will grow with their core to build a legit contender. Lupul is a UFA after this season as is MacA and both of them will be 30ish and looking for big ups (with Lupul likely to get it). That is the Leafs top 2 leaving Kessel alone (unless Bozak and Kulemin are to be considered legitimate top line talent).

Time will tell I guess.


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01-17-2013, 06:55 PM
  #50
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Nevermind about Leland or Karlsson. Forgot they would have to stay with LA and not Manchester.

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