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Sundin vs Alfie

View Poll Results: Who is better Daniel Alfredsson or Mats Sundin?
Mats Sundin 117 63.93%
Daniel Alfredsson 66 36.07%
Voters: 183. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-17-2013, 06:29 PM
  #26
ToddRundgren
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Originally Posted by darglor View Post
Homer: Alfie AINEC
Homerism aside: Alfie and it's very close. Offense is better for Sundin, defense/leadership/team commitment is better for Alfie.
+1 for original invented category.

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Old
01-17-2013, 06:38 PM
  #27
Erik Alfredsson
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I'm sure that if Alfie had two years and didn't have a lockout in the middle of his prime he would be very close to passing Sundin for points. Un freaking believable how overrated Mats is, and ho underrated Alfie is, makes me mad, I bet if the players switched teams, this poll would have a different winner.

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Old
01-17-2013, 06:44 PM
  #28
inthewings
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Originally Posted by Erik Alfredsson View Post
I'm sure that if Alfie had two years and didn't have a lockout in the middle of his prime he would be very close to passing Sundin for points. Un freaking believable how overrated Mats is, and ho underrated Alfie is, makes me mad, I bet if the players switched teams, this poll would have a different winner.
Mats missed exactly as much time as Alfie did due to lockouts.

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Old
01-17-2013, 06:46 PM
  #29
Erik Alfredsson
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Originally Posted by inthewings View Post
Mats missed exactly as much time as Alfie did due to lockouts.
Mats didn't have a full one in his prime.

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Old
01-17-2013, 06:49 PM
  #30
eyeball11
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I'm just going to cut and paste several of my posts from 2008. Bear in mind his numbers and position only went UP since then.

"This is the HHoF criteria:
ďPlaying ability, sportsmanship, character and their contribution to the team or teams and to the game of hockey in general.Ē

Under playing ability:
When you couple Sundinís record as a Leaf: all time leading scorer of a franchise thatís been around for 90 years, 2nd leading Leafs playoff scorer (done in a lower scoring era), one of the best win% of any Leafs captain along with a variety of other Leafs records as well as:

9 All Star appearances
4th overall in NHL Scoring while he was in the league
Top scorer and top ppg in the six Best on Best Tournaments in his era
Only 3 time Best on Best All Star forward during his era (along with All Star in all WCs he fully participated in)
Top 10 in NHL GWGs
Record for NHL OT goals
1 SEL Championship
3 World Championship Golds (one as Captain)
Captains 1 Olympic Gold
Etc

They cannot ignore what this man has done in international play Ė particularly when he was up against the best players in the world. Thatís often overlooked by guys like Costello but he was one of the very top international players during his time and the HHoF wonít ignore that.

Beyond the playing ability criteria
And when they couple his playing ability record with this part of Sundinís hockey career: ď sportsmanship, character and their contribution to the team or teams and to the game of hockey in general.Ē, Sundin has a very strong case."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm too lazy tp type it out so I'm just going to quote two other people who summed it up nicely:

Anyway, here are some fun Mats stats:

1. There are only 18 players who have been inducted into the HHOF who scored more points in their NHL careers than Mats has.

2. There are only 12 who scored more goals.

3. There are only 23 who have more assists.

4. Only 19 have played more career NHL games than he has.

5. Mats is currently sitting at #22 on the all-time list for goals. As mentioned above, 12 of those are already HHOF members. The remaining 9 are Hull (Brett), Yzerman, Robitaille Shanahan, Jagr Andreychuck, Sakic, Ciccarelli, and Nieuwendyk. Of those 9, the only player that meets the eligibility requirement of having retired for at least 3 full seasons prior to being nominated is Ciccarelli (and as has already been mentioned, we know why that is).

6. Mats is currently #34 on the all-time list for assists. Of the 33 in front of him, 23 are already inductees, and of the remaining 10 only Adam Oates, Doug Gilmour, Phil Housley, and Vinny Damphouse are eligible.

7. Mats is 30th in all-time points. Oates and Gilmour are the only two players ahead of him who haven't been inducted and are eligible.

8. Mats has average 1.01 points per game during his career. Of the 44 players who played at least 500 games and have a higher average, there are only 8 players who are eligible for nomination and haven't yet been inducted (Kent Nilsson, Pavel Bure, Bernie Nicholls, Adam Oates, Tim Kerr, Rick Martin, Steve Larmer, Pierre Larouche). Of those, only Nicholls, Oates and Larmer played more than 1000 games.


And to illustrate the stupidity of the author's article:

Quote from: Brian Costello, The Hockey News
So while Sundin dithers on what to do next season, here are 10 reasons why he won't make the Hall of Fame three years after his retirement. There might be 20 reasons why he will make the Hall some day, but some members of the selection committee will reject him for these flaws:

Hereís one way to look at it:


Quote from: Brian Costello, The Hockey News
4. Has never been a first-team all-star. (He has been a second-teamer twice.)

59% of the Hall of Fame has never been a first team all star so that leaves us with a little over 41%. We canít compare goalies record with Sundin so that leaves roughly 35% of the HHoF

Names like: Leafs Sittler, McDonald, Keon, Joe Primeau, Alan Stanley, Ron Francis (& Doug Gilmour)
And NHLerís like Gil Perreault, Jacques Lemaire, Cournoyer, Ratelle, Larry Murphy, Gainey, Delvecchio, Serge Savard

They donít get in with that criteria treated like elimination rounds.

For Doug Gilmour fans, he was never a first or second team all star. Think they should lock the doors of the HHoF on Doug because of that?


Quote from: Brian Costello, The Hockey News
7. His 1,321 career regular season points are impressive, but not good enough. Adam Oates has been rejected two straight induction years and he retired with 1,420 points. Same with Doug Gilmour and his 1,414 points.

Of the 35% left, only 12 have scored more points leaving. 95% of the HHoF have been eliminated after two pieces of criteria that this writer feels could cause a player to be disqualified.


Quote from: Brian Costello, The Hockey News
6. His 555 career regular season goals are impressive, but not good enough. Dino Ciccarelli has 608 and he has been rebuffed and Dave Andreychuk (640) won't get in when he's first-time eligible in 2009.

Mikita? Trottier? Face it you guys. You donít cut the mustard for this Hockey News HHoF criteria ! (down to 8 players left)


Quote from: Brian Costello, The Hockey News
8. He never posted a 50-goal season and had just one 100-point season. Pavel Bure had two 60-goal seasons and two more with 58 and 59 and he's an outsider.

I always though Gordie Howe sucked when he couldnít put up 50 goals in a season !


Quote from: Brian Costello, The Hockey News
9. Has just 16 more points (1,321) than games played (1,305) during his 17-season career. Very good, but not great.

Renown household name Johnny Bucyk makes it this far but falls short. (He wasnít a bad player but seriously top 7 in NHL history by that criteria?)


Quote from: Brian Costello, The Hockey News
3. Has never won an individual award.

Iíd take the Messier over the Lady Bing. So would Mogilny. Jari Kurri bites the dust.

Only five players in the entire Hockey Hall of Fame and of the entire NHLers of all time can get past those six criteria that THN writer Costello feels will be held against Sundin:

Esposito, Gretzky, Lafleur, Lemieux, Messier.

Interesting to note that those five players played a lot in at least one of the two of the highest scoring decades in hockey: the 70s and 80s.

I say the above somewhat tongue in cheek. Itís almost as assinine a way to look at it as Costello did.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

There are currently 138 forwards in the Hall of Fame (HOF). If Mats hangs them up today, here's how he compares both to the HOF and league wide (LW) historically.

Goals

14th HOF
22nd LW

Assists

28th HOF
34th LW

Points

21st HOF
30th LW

Points Per Game Played

27th HOF
35th LW

Game Winning Goals

5th HOF
8th LW

Overtime Goals

1st HOF
1st LW

Given there are 138 forwards in the HOF and his stats put him between 27th and 1st all time vs currently inducted HOF members, how much does he lower the bar again?

This aside, lets have a look at the HOF criteria and someone enlighten me as to how he doesn't fit (and before you go say Dino Ciccarelli or Adam Oates, try and come up with a list of this magnitude for them).

"The criteria the HoF consider is ďPlaying ability, sportsmanship, character and their contribution to the team or teams and to the game of hockey in general. Ē

Playing ability : Sundin led World Championship tournaments in scoring. Sundin is the 4th leading scoring since he entered the league. Plus see above.

Sportsmanship
Sundinís PIMs/game and career PIMs is low.

Character
Captaincy is a testament to a playerís character. Sundin is the longest serving non-Canadian captain in league history. Heís about to be the 2nd longest serving captain in Leafs history surviving a few GMs and coaches. Sundin is the second longest serving Captain in the league now. He also led Sweden to WC Gold and Olympic Gold as their Captain.

Look at the media scrutiny Sundin was under and how he has handled himself and compare that to others.

Contributions to their Team
Sundin led his team in scoring 13 times so far and the other 4 times he was second in scoring. Sundin is an original six teamís All Time leading scorer and goal scorer. Sundin also led Sweden in scoring many times. Sundin also scored 7 goals in 8 SEL playoff games to lead his team to that championship.

Sundin was named to the all star team 7 times and elected twice more. Sundin is the only forward of his era to be named to the Best-on-Best All Star teams 3 times during his era. Sundin also made the World Championships All Star teams regularly as well as earning some Best Forward & one MVP recognition.

Sundin won 1 SEL, 3 World Championships and 1 Olympic Gold and he captained at least two of those teams and either led or was up with the leaders in scoring.

Sundin holds the NHL record for OT goals. Heís top 7 in GWG and top 10 shorthanded goals.

Statistically, Sundin is the most consistent elite scorer in NHL history. His string of 70 point seasons and the number of times he has led his team in scoring are up there with the best in league history.

Contributions to the game of hockey

In í99, Sundin started a Leafs Charity called Captainís Corner. He is Captain of the NHL team that raises more money for charity than any other and has done so for some time. Sundin has done his share to contribute to that for years.

Sundinís popularity in Sweden and how he has handled himself over the years has probably done more to grow the sport than many.

Sundinís Historical Notes:

Currently holds the NHL and Leafs record for most overtime goals with 15

Tied NHL record for fastest overtime goal - 6 seconds (tied with Alexander Ovechkin and David Legwand)

Tied for Most consecutive 70-or-more point seasons (15) (excluding the shortened 1994-95 NHL season)

First European hockey player to be drafted first overall

Mats was banned from representing Sweden for coming to play in the NHL but went on to represent them 14 times and becoming one of three Swedes to win 3 World Championships

He was tied for the most Viking awards (Best Swedish NHLer voted by Swedish NHLers)

Longest serving European captain in league history

First Swedish player to reach the 500 goal milestone

Most career points, goals and assists by a Swedish hockey player

Currently the third highest scoring completely non-Canadian player in NHL history behind Jagr & Kurri. (Brett Hull born in Canada & Stan Mikita raised in Canada are also currently ahead of him)

Leafs All Time leading goal scorer and leading scorer

Top 7 all time in game winning goals

Close to top 10 all time in short handed goals.

Supposedly scored the most famous goal in Swedish hockey history when he went end to end through the Russian team and Fetisov for the Gold Medal winning goal in í91."

But yeah, someone please enlighten me as to how he lowers the bar or doesn't qualify.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First European born player to be drafted first overall in the NHL entry draft. (1989)
Named to the Elitserien World All-Star Team in 1991, 1992, 1994 and 1998.
Named to the World Championships All-Star Team in 1992 and 2003.
World Championships' Best Forward in 1992.
Named to the Canada Cup All-Star Team in 1991.
Named to the World Cup of Hockey All-Star Team in 1996.
Named to the Olympic Tournament All-Star Team in 2002.
4 international gold medals, one silver, and two bronze.

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Old
01-17-2013, 06:55 PM
  #31
MastuhNinks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Alfredsson View Post
Mats didn't have a full one in his prime.
Well maybe not his peak, but as far as prime goes Sundin was remarkably consistent throughout his career, so he still probably missed out on 75 or so points that year. Excluding his 1st and last seasons, Sundin scored at 0.90 points per game or higher every year of his career, and he played 70 or more games in every season except for the shortened one in '94-'95.

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Old
01-17-2013, 07:00 PM
  #32
inthewings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Alfredsson View Post
Mats didn't have a full one in his prime.
Sundin missed half a season in his prime and a full season when he was a 70+ point player. Alfredsson missed one in his prime and half a season when he was a 50(?) point player. Really not enough to move the needle one way or another.

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Old
01-17-2013, 07:02 PM
  #33
Erik Alfredsson
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Originally Posted by inthewings View Post
Sundin missed half a season in his prime and a full season when he was a 70+ point player. Alfredsson missed one in his prime and half a season when he was a 50(?) point player. Really not enough to move the needle one way or another.
+2 seasons

Offensively= Close but slight edge to Sundin
Defensively= Alfie ainec
All around=Alfie
Leader=Alfie
Importance to team= Alfie

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Old
01-17-2013, 09:17 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inthewings View Post
Sundin missed half a season in his prime and a full season when he was a 70+ point player. Alfredsson missed one in his prime and half a season when he was a 50(?) point player. Really not enough to move the needle one way or another.
To be fair, the shortened season in 94/95 may have had an affect on Alfredsson making the team vs staying in Sweden at the time. Ottawa was seriously weak at RW (and just about every other position) that year and he had just come off a pretty good season in the SEL; he would have had a very good opportunity to make the team in a prominent role (like he did the following season). It's likely he committed to his SEL team when the lockout occurred and had no motivation to try to make the sens mid SEL Season.

So, you could say Alfredsson was potentially affected by all 3 lockouts, though 1 is purely speculation.

That said, don't really care in debating who was "better" both were/are great for their respective teams.

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Old
01-17-2013, 09:25 PM
  #35
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Offensively= Close but slight edge to Sundin
Defensively= Alfie ainec
All around=Alfie
Leader=Alfie
Importance to team= Alfie


Based on what?

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Old
01-17-2013, 09:26 PM
  #36
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I know it was long ago in the distant past, but do you remember those playoff series when Sundin would always prove to be clutch. He was definitely the better leader although Alfredsson was really good too. I just don't like him though. But there was a reason why the leafs would always beat Ottawa in the POs


Last edited by Atomos2: 01-17-2013 at 09:32 PM.
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01-17-2013, 09:36 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Alfredsson View Post
+2 seasons

Offensively= Close but slight edge to Sundin
Defensively= Alfie ainec
All around=Alfie
Leader=Alfie
Importance to team= Alfie
In your opinion

Since Sundin was Alfie's captain the year he won an olympic gold medal, I'm sure Alfie would say Sundin is the better leader.

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Old
01-17-2013, 11:08 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
I'm just going to cut and paste several of my posts from 2008. Bear in mind his numbers and position only went UP since then.

"This is the HHoF criteria:
ďPlaying ability, sportsmanship, character and their contribution to the team or teams and to the game of hockey in general.Ē

Under playing ability:
When you couple Sundinís record as a Leaf: all time leading scorer of a franchise thatís been around for 90 years, 2nd leading Leafs playoff scorer (done in a lower scoring era), one of the best win% of any Leafs captain along with a variety of other Leafs records as well as:

9 All Star appearances
4th overall in NHL Scoring while he was in the league
Top scorer and top ppg in the six Best on Best Tournaments in his era
Only 3 time Best on Best All Star forward during his era (along with All Star in all WCs he fully participated in)
Top 10 in NHL GWGs
Record for NHL OT goals
1 SEL Championship
3 World Championship Golds (one as Captain)
Captains 1 Olympic Gold
Etc

They cannot ignore what this man has done in international play Ė particularly when he was up against the best players in the world. Thatís often overlooked by guys like Costello but he was one of the very top international players during his time and the HHoF wonít ignore that.

Beyond the playing ability criteria
And when they couple his playing ability record with this part of Sundinís hockey career: ď sportsmanship, character and their contribution to the team or teams and to the game of hockey in general.Ē, Sundin has a very strong case."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm too lazy tp type it out so I'm just going to quote two other people who summed it up nicely:

Anyway, here are some fun Mats stats:

1. There are only 18 players who have been inducted into the HHOF who scored more points in their NHL careers than Mats has.

2. There are only 12 who scored more goals.

3. There are only 23 who have more assists.

4. Only 19 have played more career NHL games than he has.

5. Mats is currently sitting at #22 on the all-time list for goals. As mentioned above, 12 of those are already HHOF members. The remaining 9 are Hull (Brett), Yzerman, Robitaille Shanahan, Jagr Andreychuck, Sakic, Ciccarelli, and Nieuwendyk. Of those 9, the only player that meets the eligibility requirement of having retired for at least 3 full seasons prior to being nominated is Ciccarelli (and as has already been mentioned, we know why that is).

6. Mats is currently #34 on the all-time list for assists. Of the 33 in front of him, 23 are already inductees, and of the remaining 10 only Adam Oates, Doug Gilmour, Phil Housley, and Vinny Damphouse are eligible.

7. Mats is 30th in all-time points. Oates and Gilmour are the only two players ahead of him who haven't been inducted and are eligible.

8. Mats has average 1.01 points per game during his career. Of the 44 players who played at least 500 games and have a higher average, there are only 8 players who are eligible for nomination and haven't yet been inducted (Kent Nilsson, Pavel Bure, Bernie Nicholls, Adam Oates, Tim Kerr, Rick Martin, Steve Larmer, Pierre Larouche). Of those, only Nicholls, Oates and Larmer played more than 1000 games.


And to illustrate the stupidity of the author's article:

Quote from: Brian Costello, The Hockey News
So while Sundin dithers on what to do next season, here are 10 reasons why he won't make the Hall of Fame three years after his retirement. There might be 20 reasons why he will make the Hall some day, but some members of the selection committee will reject him for these flaws:

Hereís one way to look at it:


Quote from: Brian Costello, The Hockey News
4. Has never been a first-team all-star. (He has been a second-teamer twice.)

59% of the Hall of Fame has never been a first team all star so that leaves us with a little over 41%. We canít compare goalies record with Sundin so that leaves roughly 35% of the HHoF

Names like: Leafs Sittler, McDonald, Keon, Joe Primeau, Alan Stanley, Ron Francis (& Doug Gilmour)
And NHLerís like Gil Perreault, Jacques Lemaire, Cournoyer, Ratelle, Larry Murphy, Gainey, Delvecchio, Serge Savard

They donít get in with that criteria treated like elimination rounds.

For Doug Gilmour fans, he was never a first or second team all star. Think they should lock the doors of the HHoF on Doug because of that?


Quote from: Brian Costello, The Hockey News
7. His 1,321 career regular season points are impressive, but not good enough. Adam Oates has been rejected two straight induction years and he retired with 1,420 points. Same with Doug Gilmour and his 1,414 points.

Of the 35% left, only 12 have scored more points leaving. 95% of the HHoF have been eliminated after two pieces of criteria that this writer feels could cause a player to be disqualified.


Quote from: Brian Costello, The Hockey News
6. His 555 career regular season goals are impressive, but not good enough. Dino Ciccarelli has 608 and he has been rebuffed and Dave Andreychuk (640) won't get in when he's first-time eligible in 2009.

Mikita? Trottier? Face it you guys. You donít cut the mustard for this Hockey News HHoF criteria ! (down to 8 players left)


Quote from: Brian Costello, The Hockey News
8. He never posted a 50-goal season and had just one 100-point season. Pavel Bure had two 60-goal seasons and two more with 58 and 59 and he's an outsider.

I always though Gordie Howe sucked when he couldnít put up 50 goals in a season !


Quote from: Brian Costello, The Hockey News
9. Has just 16 more points (1,321) than games played (1,305) during his 17-season career. Very good, but not great.

Renown household name Johnny Bucyk makes it this far but falls short. (He wasnít a bad player but seriously top 7 in NHL history by that criteria?)


Quote from: Brian Costello, The Hockey News
3. Has never won an individual award.

Iíd take the Messier over the Lady Bing. So would Mogilny. Jari Kurri bites the dust.

Only five players in the entire Hockey Hall of Fame and of the entire NHLers of all time can get past those six criteria that THN writer Costello feels will be held against Sundin:

Esposito, Gretzky, Lafleur, Lemieux, Messier.

Interesting to note that those five players played a lot in at least one of the two of the highest scoring decades in hockey: the 70s and 80s.

I say the above somewhat tongue in cheek. Itís almost as assinine a way to look at it as Costello did.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

There are currently 138 forwards in the Hall of Fame (HOF). If Mats hangs them up today, here's how he compares both to the HOF and league wide (LW) historically.

Goals

14th HOF
22nd LW

Assists

28th HOF
34th LW

Points

21st HOF
30th LW

Points Per Game Played

27th HOF
35th LW

Game Winning Goals

5th HOF
8th LW

Overtime Goals

1st HOF
1st LW

Given there are 138 forwards in the HOF and his stats put him between 27th and 1st all time vs currently inducted HOF members, how much does he lower the bar again?

This aside, lets have a look at the HOF criteria and someone enlighten me as to how he doesn't fit (and before you go say Dino Ciccarelli or Adam Oates, try and come up with a list of this magnitude for them).

"The criteria the HoF consider is ďPlaying ability, sportsmanship, character and their contribution to the team or teams and to the game of hockey in general. Ē

Playing ability : Sundin led World Championship tournaments in scoring. Sundin is the 4th leading scoring since he entered the league. Plus see above.

Sportsmanship
Sundinís PIMs/game and career PIMs is low.

Character
Captaincy is a testament to a playerís character. Sundin is the longest serving non-Canadian captain in league history. Heís about to be the 2nd longest serving captain in Leafs history surviving a few GMs and coaches. Sundin is the second longest serving Captain in the league now. He also led Sweden to WC Gold and Olympic Gold as their Captain.

Look at the media scrutiny Sundin was under and how he has handled himself and compare that to others.

Contributions to their Team
Sundin led his team in scoring 13 times so far and the other 4 times he was second in scoring. Sundin is an original six teamís All Time leading scorer and goal scorer. Sundin also led Sweden in scoring many times. Sundin also scored 7 goals in 8 SEL playoff games to lead his team to that championship.

Sundin was named to the all star team 7 times and elected twice more. Sundin is the only forward of his era to be named to the Best-on-Best All Star teams 3 times during his era. Sundin also made the World Championships All Star teams regularly as well as earning some Best Forward & one MVP recognition.

Sundin won 1 SEL, 3 World Championships and 1 Olympic Gold and he captained at least two of those teams and either led or was up with the leaders in scoring.

Sundin holds the NHL record for OT goals. Heís top 7 in GWG and top 10 shorthanded goals.

Statistically, Sundin is the most consistent elite scorer in NHL history. His string of 70 point seasons and the number of times he has led his team in scoring are up there with the best in league history.

Contributions to the game of hockey

In í99, Sundin started a Leafs Charity called Captainís Corner. He is Captain of the NHL team that raises more money for charity than any other and has done so for some time. Sundin has done his share to contribute to that for years.

Sundinís popularity in Sweden and how he has handled himself over the years has probably done more to grow the sport than many.

Sundinís Historical Notes:

Currently holds the NHL and Leafs record for most overtime goals with 15

Tied NHL record for fastest overtime goal - 6 seconds (tied with Alexander Ovechkin and David Legwand)

Tied for Most consecutive 70-or-more point seasons (15) (excluding the shortened 1994-95 NHL season)

First European hockey player to be drafted first overall

Mats was banned from representing Sweden for coming to play in the NHL but went on to represent them 14 times and becoming one of three Swedes to win 3 World Championships

He was tied for the most Viking awards (Best Swedish NHLer voted by Swedish NHLers)

Longest serving European captain in league history

First Swedish player to reach the 500 goal milestone

Most career points, goals and assists by a Swedish hockey player

Currently the third highest scoring completely non-Canadian player in NHL history behind Jagr & Kurri. (Brett Hull born in Canada & Stan Mikita raised in Canada are also currently ahead of him)

Leafs All Time leading goal scorer and leading scorer

Top 7 all time in game winning goals

Close to top 10 all time in short handed goals.

Supposedly scored the most famous goal in Swedish hockey history when he went end to end through the Russian team and Fetisov for the Gold Medal winning goal in í91."

But yeah, someone please enlighten me as to how he lowers the bar or doesn't qualify.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First European born player to be drafted first overall in the NHL entry draft. (1989)
Named to the Elitserien World All-Star Team in 1991, 1992, 1994 and 1998.
Named to the World Championships All-Star Team in 1992 and 2003.
World Championships' Best Forward in 1992.
Named to the Canada Cup All-Star Team in 1991.
Named to the World Cup of Hockey All-Star Team in 1996.
Named to the Olympic Tournament All-Star Team in 2002.
4 international gold medals, one silver, and two bronze.
You gotta understand that 99% of people will not have time to read this...myself included. It took way less time to quote and respond then to read it...and i don't even know which side you're on...

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01-18-2013, 03:21 AM
  #39
Ohashi_Jouzu
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You gotta understand that 99% of people will not have time to read this...myself included. It took way less time to quote and respond then to read it...and i don't even know which side you're on...
It basically distills down to "Sundin, /thread". And I, personally, agree.

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01-18-2013, 03:41 AM
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But there was a reason why the leafs would always beat Ottawa in the POs
Double the pay roll?

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01-18-2013, 12:30 PM
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Mats Sundin

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01-18-2013, 01:14 PM
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I'm a big Sundin fan, but prefer Alfie's style of play. The way he slows things down and creates space is elite. Voted Alfie, but good poll.

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01-18-2013, 01:14 PM
  #43
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As a Sabres fan who got to see both of these players all to frequently throughout their careers, I always thought more of Alfredsson. IMO, he's one of the most underrated players of his generation while Sundin was always one of the most overrated.

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01-18-2013, 03:25 PM
  #44
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I know it was long ago in the distant past, but do you remember those playoff series when Sundin would always prove to be clutch. He was definitely the better leader although Alfredsson was really good too. I just don't like him though. But there was a reason why the leafs would always beat Ottawa in the POs
Clutch would have applied if he had stepped it up in the later rounds. Making it out of the 1st round a few times doesn't turn him into a clutch player.

If Sundin was the reason they always beat Ottawa, would it be fair to say he's the reason they never had much playoff success?

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01-18-2013, 05:01 PM
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01-18-2013, 05:13 PM
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I respect the opinions of Sens fans on almost any topic as long as its not Karlsson or Alrfedsson. no offense guys, but this isnt close, Sundin is a first ballot hall of famer, Alfie would get in on a weaker than normal year. Messier award is dumb and holds literally no weight, if you want Alfie to make up the extra games on Sundin give them to a 20 year old alfie and we'll see how ppg adds up. Alfredsson is a helluva player but i can't think of any argument that can legitimately prove Alfredsson was a better player than Sundin

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01-18-2013, 05:27 PM
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I respect the opinions of Sens fans on almost any topic as long as its not Karlsson or Alrfedsson. no offense guys, but this isnt close, Sundin is a first ballot hall of famer, Alfie would get in on a weaker than normal year. Messier award is dumb and holds literally no weight, if you want Alfie to make up the extra games on Sundin give them to a 20 year old alfie and we'll see how ppg adds up. Alfredsson is a helluva player but i can't think of any argument that can legitimately prove Alfredsson was a better player than Sundin
This is really ironic.

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01-18-2013, 05:32 PM
  #48
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As a Sabres fan who got to see both of these players all to frequently throughout their careers, I always thought more of Alfredsson. IMO, he's one of the most underrated players of his generation while Sundin was always one of the most overrated.
This. Sundin was a great player, however I found his play to be overrated. The media in Toronto, such as TSN and Sportsnet always made Sundin moments bigger because they wanted more viewers.

I think it's close but gotta give the edge to Alfie. His loyalty to Ottawa is what put it over the top for me. When I think Alfie, I can see the big C on an Ottawa jersey. When I think Sundin, I can't help but see a Canucks jersey with Sundin on the back.

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01-18-2013, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Zubrus Coffee Maker View Post
I respect the opinions of Sens fans on almost any topic as long as its not Karlsson or Alrfedsson. no offense guys, but this isnt close, Sundin is a first ballot hall of famer, Alfie would get in on a weaker than normal year. Messier award is dumb and holds literally no weight, if you want Alfie to make up the extra games on Sundin give them to a 20 year old alfie and we'll see how ppg adds up. Alfredsson is a helluva player but i can't think of any argument that can legitimately prove Alfredsson was a better player than Sundin
Sundin shouldnt have been a first ballot hall of famer. And Alfie isnt that far below Sundin that he has to get in on a weaker year.

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01-18-2013, 06:14 PM
  #50
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Anyone acting like it`s not close is just kidding themselves. I'm a Sens fan and I've watched probably 75% of Alfie's career games so clearly I`ll be biased. But they're very comparable in pretty much every way. Similar PPG, both great captains, both never led their team to a cup.

These polls come up every week and it's just silly. In the future, hopefully the OP will have some more specific guidelines for the comparison because as the question is currently framed, there's really no right answer.

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