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Are the Oilers tough enough?

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Old
01-17-2013, 01:51 PM
  #26
bereanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
I think Hartikainen can be that player going forward once Hemsky is done here..

If Gagner can develop chemistry with Yakupov and be 50% on the dot then we can get by with his lack of size.

Hopefully we luck out and one of Pitlick, Martindale, Zharkov and Khaira become that good tough top 6 forward down the road.
I'd really like Pitlick to be groomed for the position of 2C. He's got the size, toughness and defensive awareness to do it. He doesn't have to score goals, just backup Yakupov and whoever is on the other side. I'd like see Zharkov there in a year or two.

Hall/RNH/Eberle
Zharkov/Pitlick/Yakupov

If Pitlick and Zharkov can pan out that would make for a couple of pretty dynamic lines and of course leave us with assets to trade for upgrades elsewhere.

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01-17-2013, 01:58 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
Why does it have to be a C ?
It can be #2 LW (instead of Hemsky) ... We arent contenders yet so lets just wait and see if Hartikainen can be that guy before trading for a Kulemin or Downie.

Who did we have when we went to SCF in 06? Who is the big tough #2 C in PHI or NJ?
A center is the one who has the biggest responsibilty to anchor a line and play a responsible 2 way game and attempt to shut down the opposition.

Horcoff was our guy in '06. Couturier is Philly's guy and Zajac in NJ.

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01-17-2013, 01:59 PM
  #28
Petro Points
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Originally Posted by bereanca View Post
I'd really like Pitlick to be groomed for the position of 2C. He's got the size, toughness and defensive awareness to do it. He doesn't have to score goals, just backup Yakupov and whoever is on the other side. I'd like see Zharkov there in a year or two.

Hall/RNH/Eberle
Zharkov/Pitlick/Yakupov

If Pitlick and Zharkov can pan out that would make for a couple of pretty dynamic lines and of course leave us with assets to trade for upgrades elsewhere.
only issue with that is that Pitlick has been playing the wing in AHL. If Oilers wanted to groom him to be a C they shouldve played him at C already.

The other issue is that Pitlick hasnt done much to show that he can be anything more than a 4th line winger at NHL level yet.

With the kids back up in EDM, Pitlick should have been taking the bull by the horn and be getting close to PPG.
Guys like Jacques and Pouliot put up better points in AHL 2 years after the draft.

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01-17-2013, 02:00 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by bereanca View Post
I'd really like Pitlick to be groomed for the position of 2C. He's got the size, toughness and defensive awareness to do it. He doesn't have to score goals, just backup Yakupov and whoever is on the other side. I'd like see Zharkov there in a year or two.

Hall/RNH/Eberle
Zharkov/Pitlick/Yakupov

If Pitlick and Zharkov can pan out that would make for a couple of pretty dynamic lines and of course leave us with assets to trade for upgrades elsewhere.
Tyler Pitlick has 3 points in 30 games in the AHL...he's fast becoming a bust

Zharkov has been inconsistent all year

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01-17-2013, 02:11 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by The Last Dynasty View Post
Tyler Pitlick has 3 points in 30 games in the AHL...he's fast becoming a bust

Zharkov has been inconsistent all year
Yeah Pitlick has a looooong way to go before hes even considered for the roster. Let alone a #2C. When he was drafted I don't think people expected him to be much more than a #3C.

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01-17-2013, 02:29 PM
  #31
bereanca
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
only issue with that is that Pitlick has been playing the wing in AHL. If Oilers wanted to groom him to be a C they shouldve played him at C already.

The other issue is that Pitlick hasnt done much to show that he can be anything more than a 4th line winger at NHL level yet.

With the kids back up in EDM, Pitlick should have been taking the bull by the horn and be getting close to PPG.
Guys like Jacques and Pouliot put up better points in AHL 2 years after the draft.
His natural position is centre. Who knows why he was shifted? Maybe they thought with VV, Lander and Martindale waiting in line he would stand a better chance on the wing. Maybe they thought the right side was shallow with basically Hemsky there. But with the emergence of Eberle, the addition of Yakupov and with Paajarvi moving over to the right side that is no longer the case.

The issue is not points, it's toughness. And Pitlick gives the team that. Semenko and Lumley both looked like All Stars playing with Gretz.

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01-17-2013, 02:39 PM
  #32
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Depends on how Kriger runs things. Renney had Hordi and Eager on leashes so tight I'm surprised they could breath.

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01-17-2013, 04:31 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
We have a butter soft forward group.

No one is scared of a couple of guys who might play 3 minutes a night.

Fixing that should definitely be Tambo's #1 priority.
What do our butter soft forwards have to be afraid of?

I look through the rosters of the Western Conference this season and I don't see too many that scream toughness.

In the Oilers division, Vancouver, Calgary, and Colorado are all butter soft as well. Minnesota isn't tough to play against either besides having a few end of the roster goons like Edmonton.


Maybe, Anaheim, Columbus, St. Louis, and LA will be tough to play against. The rest don;t seem to be intimidating at all.

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01-17-2013, 05:11 PM
  #34
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It is what is. Our young stars will never be a tough group. They will have to deal with it, out talent teams and have an awesome power play to make teams think twice about running them.

Tambo needs to build a decent third line though. Thats where some more muscle could really be used. Some big, tough, respectable players to lean heavily on other teams top lines. Horc and Smyth aren't capable of providing that.

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01-17-2013, 05:21 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
They also said that they are gonna go back to calling all that stuff again.
I hope your right, but what will likely happen is they will call it for the first 30 games ... then lose the whistles.

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01-17-2013, 06:18 PM
  #36
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Not nearly.

Swap Gagner + asset for a bigger meaner version of himself, swap Hemsky for something of value, promote Hartikainen to the top 6, and fill out the bottom six with some bruisers and the Oilers will be tough enough. I don't suspect any of these moves will be feasible until the deadline or the draft (if the Oilers are in contention at the deadline).

Fistric was a step in the right direction.

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01-17-2013, 06:32 PM
  #37
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they aren't the softest team in the west, but they're close. I like the grit of guys like hemsky, smyth and hall, but they're by no means tough guys. Nobody on opposing teams fears the physicality of the oilers top 9

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01-17-2013, 06:54 PM
  #38
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Why cant we run 2 skilled lines and have a 3rd line that just oozes toughness? I don't want to move Hall or Eberle to the second line just to add toughness.

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01-17-2013, 06:56 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Not nearly.

Swap Gagner + asset for a bigger meaner version of himself, swap Hemsky for something of value, promote Hartikainen to the top 6, and fill out the bottom six with some bruisers and the Oilers will be tough enough. I don't suspect any of these moves will be feasible until the deadline or the draft (if the Oilers are in contention at the deadline).

Fistric was a step in the right direction.
What team gives up on a second line center that can make plays, be responsible in his own zone, throw big hits, win faceoffs and intimidate other teams top lines?

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01-17-2013, 07:09 PM
  #40
harpoon
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Replace Gagner with a capable, strong top 6 center who can play physical, chip in offense and shut down the opposing best player and this team will look worlds better.
By all means lets turn this into another thread about how small and weak Gagner is ....
Imagine if Horcoff would hit somebody once in awhile . We wouldn't be having this conversation.

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01-17-2013, 07:39 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
What team gives up on a second line center that can make plays, be responsible in his own zone, throw big hits, win faceoffs and intimidate other teams top lines?
It's not outside the realm of possibility that a financially distressed organization swaps a better version of Gagner for Gagner and a draft pick. I don't know what's going on in Colorado but all signs point to distress. O'Reilly may be available for the right pieces.

If not for that the Oilers will have to sign a free agent (tough from a cap perspective) or more likely draft the 2 C they need.

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01-17-2013, 08:29 PM
  #42
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Bolded are the 05/06 centers and the rest of the team



Player Pos GP G A Pts PIM +/- PPG SHG GWG
Ales Hemsky RW 81 19 58 77 64 -5 7 1 4
Shawn Horcoff C 79 22 51 73 85 0 3 3 5
Jarret Stoll C 82 22 46 68 74 4 11 1 4
Ryan Smyth LW 75 36 30 66 58 -5 19 2 3
Chris Pronger D 80 12 44 56 74 2 10 0 3
Raffi Torres LW 82 27 14 41 50 4 6 0 3
Fernando Pisani RW 80 18 19 37 42 5 4 1 2
Marc-Andre Bergeron D 75 15 20 35 38 3 8 0 1
Radek Dvorak RW 64 8 20 28 26 -2 2 0 2
Steve Staios D 82 8 20 28 84 10 1 0 1
Ethan Moreau LW 74 11 16 27 87 6 2 4 4
Marty Reasoner C 58 9 17 26 20 -12 5 0 1
Michael Peca C 71 9 14 23 56 -4 2 2 1
Jaroslav Spacek D 31 5 14 19 24 3 3 0 0
Jason Smith D 76 4 13 17 84 1 0 0 0
Sergei Samsonov LW 19 5 11 16 6 0 4 0 0
Georges Laraque RW 72 2 10 12 73 -5 0 0 0
Igor Ulanov D 37 3 6 9 29 -11 1 0 0
Todd Harvey RW/C 63 5 2 7 32 -7 0 0 0
Cory Cross D 34 2 3 5 38 -5 0 1 0
Dick Tarnstrom D 22 1 3 4 24 -5 0 0 0
Jani Rita LW 21 3 0 3 6 0 0 0 0
Rem Murray C/LW 9 1 1 2 2 1 0 0 0
Alexei Semenov D 11 1 1 2 17 -3 0 0 0
Matt Greene D 27 0 2 2 43 -6 0 0 0
Marc-Antoine Pouliot C 8 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 0
Jussi Markkanen G 37 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
Dwayne Roloson G 19 0 1 1 2 0 0 0 0
Brad Winchester C/LW 19 0 1 1 21 -2 0 0 0
Kyle Brodziak C 10 0 0 0 4 -4 0 0 0
Ty Conklin G 18 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0
Jean-Francois Jacques LW 7 0 0 0 0 -3 0 0 0
Krys Kolanos C 6 0 0 0 2 -1 0 0 0
Mike Morrison G 21 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0
Mathieu Roy D 1 0 0 0 0 -1 0 0 0
Dan Smith D 7 0 0 0 7 1 0 0 0
Yan Stastny C 3 0 0 0 0 -2 0 0 0
Danny Syvret D 10 0 0 0 6 -1 0 0 0

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01-17-2013, 08:37 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by 240SX93 View Post
Bolded are the 05/06 centers and the rest of the team



Player Pos GP G A Pts PIM +/- PPG SHG GWG
Ales Hemsky RW 81 19 58 77 64 -5 7 1 4
Shawn Horcoff C 79 22 51 73 85 0 3 3 5
Jarret Stoll C 82 22 46 68 74 4 11 1 4
Ryan Smyth LW 75 36 30 66 58 -5 19 2 3
Chris Pronger D 80 12 44 56 74 2 10 0 3
Raffi Torres LW 82 27 14 41 50 4 6 0 3
Fernando Pisani RW 80 18 19 37 42 5 4 1 2
Marc-Andre Bergeron D 75 15 20 35 38 3 8 0 1
Radek Dvorak RW 64 8 20 28 26 -2 2 0 2
Steve Staios D 82 8 20 28 84 10 1 0 1
Ethan Moreau LW 74 11 16 27 87 6 2 4 4
Marty Reasoner C 58 9 17 26 20 -12 5 0 1
Michael Peca C 71 9 14 23 56 -4 2 2 1
Jaroslav Spacek D 31 5 14 19 24 3 3 0 0
Jason Smith D 76 4 13 17 84 1 0 0 0
Sergei Samsonov LW 19 5 11 16 6 0 4 0 0
Georges Laraque RW 72 2 10 12 73 -5 0 0 0
Igor Ulanov D 37 3 6 9 29 -11 1 0 0
Todd Harvey RW/C 63 5 2 7 32 -7 0 0 0
Cory Cross D 34 2 3 5 38 -5 0 1 0
Dick Tarnstrom D 22 1 3 4 24 -5 0 0 0
Jani Rita LW 21 3 0 3 6 0 0 0 0
Rem Murray C/LW 9 1 1 2 2 1 0 0 0
Alexei Semenov D 11 1 1 2 17 -3 0 0 0
Matt Greene D 27 0 2 2 43 -6 0 0 0
Marc-Antoine Pouliot C 8 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 0
Jussi Markkanen G 37 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
Dwayne Roloson G 19 0 1 1 2 0 0 0 0
Brad Winchester C/LW 19 0 1 1 21 -2 0 0 0
Kyle Brodziak C 10 0 0 0 4 -4 0 0 0
Ty Conklin G 18 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0
Jean-Francois Jacques LW 7 0 0 0 0 -3 0 0 0
Krys Kolanos C 6 0 0 0 2 -1 0 0 0
Mike Morrison G 21 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0
Mathieu Roy D 1 0 0 0 0 -1 0 0 0
Dan Smith D 7 0 0 0 7 1 0 0 0
Yan Stastny C 3 0 0 0 0 -2 0 0 0
Danny Syvret D 10 0 0 0 6 -1 0 0 0
Funny, Stoll would be the perfect fit for this team .... adding jus thte right amount of size/grit.

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01-17-2013, 08:49 PM
  #44
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By all means lets turn this into another thread about how small and weak Gagner is ....
Imagine if Horcoff would hit somebody once in awhile . We wouldn't be having this conversation.
So "Harpoon wants Horcoff to play 2nd line center."

Noted.

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01-17-2013, 08:50 PM
  #45
guymez
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Funny, Stoll would be the perfect fit for this team .... adding jus thte right amount of size/grit.
Yup...Management traded Stoll and to this day have never able to fill the hole they created.

As an aside...its amazing to be reminded that Pronger was 5th in team scoring with 56 points.

2005/06 was also a year when Raffi Torres was a very effective top 9 player. The Oilers could really use that version of Torres now.

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01-17-2013, 08:55 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by alanschu View Post
So "Harpoon wants Horcoff to play 2nd line center." Noted.
No. harpoon wants to discuss team toughness, the topic of this thread.
And harpoon wants the back to back to back TOI leader on this team to not skate away into a corner anytime there is a physical confrontation going on.

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01-17-2013, 08:57 PM
  #47
Matt Ryan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bereanca View Post
I'd really like Pitlick to be groomed for the position of 2C. He's got the size, toughness and defensive awareness to do it. He doesn't have to score goals, just backup Yakupov and whoever is on the other side. I'd like see Zharkov there in a year or two.

Hall/RNH/Eberle
Zharkov/Pitlick/Yakupov

If Pitlick and Zharkov can pan out that would make for a couple of pretty dynamic lines and of course leave us with assets to trade for upgrades elsewhere.
Pitlick isn't good enough.

All of you saying Stoll would be a perfect fit, that guy sucks. Sure he's big, but he's slow and couldn't keep up with his wingers. Trust me, you guys would find a way to hate him in like 3 weeks.

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Old
01-17-2013, 09:04 PM
  #48
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The Oilers have had the same problem for a god 5-6 years.

We always end up getting mad and reacting to other teams running us around.

I rarely see an Oiler go smoke a star player first.

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01-17-2013, 09:08 PM
  #49
Joey Moss
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In the top 6, no. But Hartikainen and Fistric hit everything. Petrell is a strong checker and Eager can play tough as well.

The Oilers will have to address the grit in the top 6 for next season IMO, and it's obviously going to be a center or winger replacing either Gagner or Hemsky. Getzlaf/Perry would be ideal, although maybe unrealistic. Clowe is realistic and the Oilers should target him as well.

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01-17-2013, 09:09 PM
  #50
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Crap we should have gone after mike fisher when the sens were trading him, perfect fit between hemsky/yakupov

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