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P.K. Subban Thread - Mk III - Unsigned Edition

View Poll Results: Who should break first
Bergevin 61 25.00%
Subban 183 75.00%
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Old
01-17-2013, 04:56 PM
  #51
bjac
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
It makes absolutely zero sense to me. Marc Bergevin is picking his battles, unfortunately he's picking the wrong ones.

Four years to Brandon Prust at 10 million, but playing hardball with our best defender. I'm tired of ex-players and their complete lack of understanding with running a business.

The bridge contract nonsense is so silly. You pay players based on their worth, not on their age.

We finally have a keeper who wants to be here long term and we fight tooth and nail to save every penny. Ridiculous.
First of all, Prust was a UFA. Subban being and RFA makes his contract situation completely different. UFAs are generally overpayed.

Second, he is a great player to hold your ground against. If MB breaks here and lets Meehan get exactly what he wants, every agent negotiating with MB in the future will take note of it. The precedent must be set so that contracts remain as small as possible in the future. The people wanting Subban signed for whatever price he is naming better be careful what they wish for because future contracts will be gauged off of this one.

I'm glad the Habs are taking a cautious approach to this contract. I think it is a wise decision. I like Subban, he is the teams best defenseman. I have never disagreed with that. But we aren't in risk of losing him, so really I don't mind this as much as some...

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01-17-2013, 04:58 PM
  #52
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I'm not getting the hold up. Given Subban's status as an high-end #1 D-man, a long-term deal would be heavily to the benefit of the club, assuming the dollar amount was reasonable.

Unless Bergevin is following the insanity of some of the Montreal media and using del Zotto as a comparable (and, therefore, heavily lowballing Subban) I'm not getting his reticence.

PK is a special player, plain and simple.
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01-17-2013, 04:59 PM
  #53
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First of all, Prust was a UFA. Subban being and RFA makes his contract situation completely different. UFAs are generally overpayed.

Second, he is a great player to hold your ground against. If MB breaks here and lets Meehan get exactly what he wants, every agent negotiating with MB in the future will take note of it. The precedent must be set so that contracts remain as small as possible in the future. The people wanting Subban signed for whatever price he is naming better be careful what they wish for because future contracts will be gauged off of this one.

I'm glad the Habs are taking a cautious approach to this contract. I think it is a wise decision. I like Subban, he is the teams best defenseman. I have never disagreed with that. But we aren't in risk of losing him, so really I don't mind this as much as some...
Well said, I agree with you. I don't really see a disadvantage to being cautious at this point in time.

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Old
01-17-2013, 05:28 PM
  #54
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The only way the club insisting on a two year deal makes sense is if its also coupled with a significant discount on cap hit for those two years. It would make sense to do that if the club is worried about next years cap and want to get as much space as possible with the option of signing PK to his prime age contract like Pacioretty and Price have during the '14 offseason when a bunch of expiring contracts

Essentially it would be discounting Subban for 2 years to make signing Desharnais long term (only major expiring contract) this summer easier.

Otherwise if you're quality young player wants to sign long term at RFA rates then I think you should just accept that and move on.

If the fight is more about cap hit though, that's understandable.

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01-17-2013, 05:34 PM
  #55
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Old
01-17-2013, 05:40 PM
  #56
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As much as he'll never admit it, Bergevin won't trade PK simply because the kid is madly popular and supported by the fan base. It would be a PR disaster and Bergevin doesn't have the balls to pull such a move so early in his job.

Not only has the kid played some of the best D we have seen in years, but he is the most popular player this team has had in ages. Just to give you an idea, Subban has 3 times more twitter followers than Price.

Who's the last players in recent history to match his popularity?

PK Subban isn't going anywhere.

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Old
01-17-2013, 05:41 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
As much as he'll never admit it, Bergevin won't trade PK simply because the kid is madly popular and supported by the fan base. It would be a PR disaster and Bergevin doesn't have the balls to pull such a move so early in his job.

Not only has the kid played some of the best D we have seen in years, but he is the most popular player this team has had in ages. Just to give you an idea, Subban has 3 times more the followers than Price.

Who's the last players in recent history to match his popularity?

PK Subban isn't going anywhere.
I was a big fan of PK. A lot of us will become less of a fan, with the way he is acting.

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Old
01-17-2013, 05:47 PM
  #58
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The funny thing is that no one really knows who is holding out in the story and by lack of information people put all the blame on pk.

Maybe Bergevin doesn't want to budge on something stupid like the years, from what i heard 5 mil for 6 years would be ideal deal for the habs even if the caps lowers.


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01-17-2013, 05:50 PM
  #59
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As much as he'll never admit it, Bergevin won't trade PK simply because the kid is madly popular and supported by the fan base. It would be a PR disaster and Bergevin doesn't have the balls to pull such a move so early in his job.

Not only has the kid played some of the best D we have seen in years, but he is the most popular player this team has had in ages. Just to give you an idea, Subban has 3 times more twitter followers than Price.

Who's the last players in recent history to match his popularity?

PK Subban isn't going anywhere.
You don't think a young guy like Couturier would get a little interest? He also has that nice french sounding name too.

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01-17-2013, 05:53 PM
  #60
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Jamie Benn's agent Rich Evans says the two sides have yet to agree on term nor on $$. Both sides continue to talk, however.

What a noble concept...

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Old
01-17-2013, 05:57 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Dharvey33 View Post
The funny thing is that no one really knows who is holding out in the story and by lack of information people put all the blame on pk.

Maybe Bergevin doesn't want to budge on something stop like the years, from what i heard 5 mil for 6 years would be ideal deal for the tabs even if the caps lowers.
Welcome to HF Boards, where the ratio of speculation to information is 48 to 1. At least that's my guess...

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01-17-2013, 05:59 PM
  #62
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I'm not getting the hold up. Given Subban's status as an high-end #1 D-man, a long-term deal would be heavily to the benefit of the club, assuming the dollar amount was reasonable.

Unless Bergevin is following the insanity of some of the Montreal media and using del Zotto as a comparable (and, therefore, heavily lowballing Subban) I'm not getting his reticence.

PK is a special player, plain and simple.
Unfortunately we don't know what Bergevin is offering or what PK is asking for, so it is hard to make a judgment on how these negotiations are progressing.

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Old
01-17-2013, 06:09 PM
  #63
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Seriously, my only concern is that the two parties arrive at a figure that represents high value without crippling the overall budget. Every team allocates prime salaries for a small number of stars -- PK will be one of our stars and arguably is one already.

But there's a limit. The speculation that Meehan's asking for Doughty numbers depends on the cap space of other teams out there. The point of asking for astronomical numbers like that is not because the Habs might pay it -- they won't -- but if some other team like Philly will. I haven't looked up the contractual status of the Flyers or a few other teams, but I doubt any of them would lock Subban into a contract like Doughty's with the cap structure as it is now. Different player, different CBA. Which is why my guess is that PK gets about $4.5 - $5 million per.

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Old
01-17-2013, 06:17 PM
  #64
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Tells a lot about someone's character when they holdout after a lockout.

Now I see hes requesting a trade? Seriously? You have no arby rights and no right whatsoever to request a trade.

Del Zotto got 2 years 2.5 per from NYR. PK doesn't deserve more than that. (Years wise, you wanna see hes worth 3 mill, maybe 3.2? fine) This is the 2nd contract. He doesn't deserve to get more. He has no leverage to get more.

Make him sit. Make him sit the entire season, its going to hurt him, and his future value to do so. Hes probably bluffing.

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Old
01-17-2013, 06:18 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Seriously, my only concern is that the two parties arrive at a figure that represents high value without crippling the overall budget. Every team allocates prime salaries for a small number of stars -- PK will be one of our stars and arguably is one already.

But there's a limit. The speculation that Meehan's asking for Doughty numbers depends on the cap space of other teams out there. The point of asking for astronomical numbers like that is not because the Habs might pay it -- they won't -- but if some other team like Philly will. I haven't looked up the contractual status of the Flyers or a few other teams, but I doubt any of them would lock Subban into a contract like Doughty's with the cap structure as it is now. Different player, different CBA. Which is why my guess is that PK gets about $4.5 - $5 million per.
Even under the new CBA, a 23 year old #1 who eats minutes against the best of the opposition and still manages to put up points at a pace similar to Doughty's deserves $5.5MM+ over term - easily. If the Oilers had a third round pick this year I would have liked them to offer sheet him for 7 years / $42 MM - and would've been thrilled when he signed it.

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01-17-2013, 06:32 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Tells a lot about someone's character when they holdout after a lockout.

Now I see hes requesting a trade? Seriously? You have no arby rights and no right whatsoever to request a trade.

Del Zotto got 2 years 2.5 per from NYR. PK doesn't deserve more than that. (Years wise, you wanna see hes worth 3 mill, maybe 3.2? fine) This is the 2nd contract. He doesn't deserve to get more. He has no leverage to get more.

Make him sit. Make him sit the entire season, its going to hurt him, and his future value to do so. Hes probably bluffing.
Oh, good. You're spamming this thread with nonsense too.

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Old
01-17-2013, 06:32 PM
  #67
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Predicting a big push tomorrow to try and get him signed for the start of the season!

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Old
01-17-2013, 06:32 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Tells a lot about someone's character when they holdout after a lockout.

Now I see hes requesting a trade? Seriously? You have no arby rights and no right whatsoever to request a trade.

Del Zotto got 2 years 2.5 per from NYR. PK doesn't deserve more than that. (Years wise, you wanna see hes worth 3 mill, maybe 3.2? fine) This is the 2nd contract. He doesn't deserve to get more. He has no leverage to get more.

Make him sit. Make him sit the entire season, its going to hurt him, and his future value to do so. Hes probably bluffing.
He deserves more money, but not more years.

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Old
01-17-2013, 06:38 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Tells a lot about someone's character when they holdout after a lockout.

Now I see hes requesting a trade? Seriously? You have no arby rights and no right whatsoever to request a traseEde.

Del Zotto got 2 years 2.5 per from NYR. PK doesn't deserve more than that. (Years wise, you wanna see hes worth 3 mill, maybe 3.2? fine) This is the 2nd contract. He doesn't deserve to get more. He has no leverage to get more.

Make him sit. Make him sit the entire season, its going to hurt him, and his future value to do so. Hes probably bluffing.
Fortunately for the team, Bergevin won't create grudges or vendettas to cripple the Habs. He's not 12 years old.

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Old
01-17-2013, 06:38 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Tells a lot about someone's character when they holdout after a lockout.

Now I see hes requesting a trade? Seriously? You have no arby rights and no right whatsoever to request a trade.

Make him sit. Make him sit the entire season, its going to hurt him, and his future value to do so. Hes probably bluffing.
Not only that, apparently PK is having a presser tomorrow that, if rumours are true, will see PK punch a kitten in the face for five minutes then admit that he is the actual mastermind behind the Lance Armstrong doping scandal.

True story.

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Old
01-17-2013, 06:42 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Tells a lot about someone's character when they holdout after a lockout.

Now I see hes requesting a trade? Seriously? You have no arby rights and no right whatsoever to request a trade.

Del Zotto got 2 years 2.5 per from NYR. PK doesn't deserve more than that. (Years wise, you wanna see hes worth 3 mill, maybe 3.2? fine) This is the 2nd contract. He doesn't deserve to get more. He has no leverage to get more.

Make him sit. Make him sit the entire season, its going to hurt him, and his future value to do so. Hes probably bluffing.
PK is better than Del Zotto and will get more than 2.5.

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Old
01-17-2013, 06:42 PM
  #72
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Even under the new CBA, a 23 year old #1 who eats minutes against the best of the opposition and still manages to put up points at a pace similar to Doughty's deserves $5.5MM+ over term - easily. If the Oilers had a third round pick this year I would have liked them to offer sheet him for 7 years / $42 MM - and would've been thrilled when he signed it.
Let's not compare Subban to Doughty. Every GM in the league would take Doughty if given the choice.......stats aren't everything.

I like P.K. and hope we can get him signed sooner than later but make no mistake, it is P.K. who is playing hardball here. I don't like the fact that he didn't play hockey during the lockout and now he is holding out. Chances are that he is going to really struggle and hurt the team when he comes back. He has yet to put together a solid season from start to finish........maybe he should concentrate on that before playing hardball with the organization. It seems like he is trying to leverage his popularity and marketability ahead of his actual performance. Subban is a good young d-man but there still is alot of room for improvement. If he can play up to his potential the contract will be there.

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01-17-2013, 06:44 PM
  #73
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Unless the Habs struggle in the absence of their best D-man, play-driver, and arguably best and most impactful player.
That player is already on the lineup. He's been our best player in camp. We lost only 3 games in regulation out of 13 last year and he wasn't even close to 100%. That's our MVP, and will remain so unless he gets injured again.

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01-17-2013, 06:45 PM
  #74
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Even under the new CBA, a 23 year old #1 who eats minutes against the best of the opposition and still manages to put up points at a pace similar to Doughty's deserves $5.5MM+ over term - easily. If the Oilers had a third round pick this year I would have liked them to offer sheet him for 7 years / $42 MM - and would've been thrilled when he signed it.
I agree that PK is worth overpaying, but it still comes down to how much overpaying the market can bear. Last year's market saw the Flyers and Wild overpaying like horny sailors at a brothel. Now, with a tighter control on big, long contracts, teams might not be as eager to lock themselves in at ridiculous amounts and lengths. Again -- different CBA, different player.

To be honest, I wouldn't argue with 7 years / $6 Million per, but then managing the rest of the roster's budget becomes that much harder.

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01-17-2013, 06:46 PM
  #75
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PK is better than Del Zotto and will get more than 2.5.
True......but he is not 3 million better than Del Zotto. P.K. should be looking at the Price/Pacioretty examples and fitting in there where he belongs. At this point he is being selfish and hurting the team by demanding more than he is worth.

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