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Josh Bailey: secondary scoring/second line answer

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01-17-2013, 11:47 AM
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petrocelli
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Josh Bailey: secondary scoring/second line answer

It's a shame that Josh Bailey is hurt to start off the season. Being that he ended last season very strongly, with almost a PPG over the last 20 games, I thought it was important he build on that with a strong start to this season. With everyone concerned about secondary scoring, I really felt Josh Bailey was going to be the most important player in filling that secondary scoring void. Because of his vision, creativity and playmaking abilities, I still see Bailey as a second line center. With Ryan Strome, Brock Nelson and Johan Sundstrom knocking on the door but still all probably a year away, this really is Bailey's year to put up if he is to have a future here. Again, the injury is a big setback for him as he losses the opportunity to secure a second line spot and build some chemistry. Regardless, I hope Bailey is put on the second line (preferably at center) and given every opportunity to succeed as this may be his last season before Strome, Nino, Sundstrom, etc come knocking on the door. I am a Bailey fan and really hope to see him succeed. If we are to make the playoffs this year, I think Bailey needs to be a key player in secondary scoring. Here's what I would like to see for this season (not necessarily what we will see):

Moulson Tavares Okposo

Nino/Ullstrom Bailey Boyes

Grabner Neilsen Martin

Joensuu Cizikas Ullstrom


I think Bailey needs a real skilled player on his line to be successful. Joensuu, Martin and Ullstrom are all more third line type players. Maybe one of those three fills a second line spot until Nino gets called up. Nino is looking like the player we drafted him to be this year, but finishing out the year in Bridgeport may be best for his development.

And in a year or two:

Moulson/Nino Tavares Okposo

B. Nelson Strome Bailey

Grabner Neilsen/Sundstrom Ullstrom

Martin Cizikas Sundstrom

wildcards: A. Lee?? Kabanov??

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01-17-2013, 12:27 PM
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Mustang2750
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The fact that Okposo is on our first line is a joke. He has sucked since hes been here and is not a first line player. I also dont understand how you are ok interchanging Nino w Moulson and not Okposo instead. I would like to see Moulson- JT- Nino much rather than Nino JT Okposo. Okposo should be on the third line...possibly second if he can improve pretty much every single thing he does. Also Bailey has been MUCH better as a winger than a center and when he returns he shoul have the second line winger spot.

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01-17-2013, 12:40 PM
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Bones45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petrocelli View Post
Because of his vision, creativity and playmaking abilities, I still see Bailey as a second line center.
Which Bailey would you be speaking of? Cuz It can't be the Josh Bailey who plays for the Isles. He floats around and does nothing for 90% of the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by petrocelli View Post
I think Bailey needs a real skilled player on his line to be successful.
Like Crosby?


I think people here need to realize that these prospects/teenagers which are touted as talent, NEED TO PLAY IN THE AHL FOR YEARS before they come to the NHL in order to be successful.

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Originally Posted by petrocelli View Post
With Ryan Strome, Brock Nelson and Johan Sundstrom knocking on the door but still all probably a year away
one year? Try THREE.

Isles mgmt is so dumb, they are ruining talent by bringing them up too early and letting them get mangled. This is the norm. Bailey is a perfect example.

Then you add the fact that they have no talent to play with, once they get here -- and the mistake is compounded.

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01-17-2013, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Mustang2750 View Post
The fact that Okposo is on our first line is a joke. He has sucked since hes been here and is not a first line player. I also dont understand how you are ok interchanging Nino w Moulson and not Okposo instead. I would like to see Moulson- JT- Nino much rather than Nino JT Okposo. Okposo should be on the third line...possibly second if he can improve pretty much every single thing he does. Also Bailey has been MUCH better as a winger than a center and when he returns he shoul have the second line winger spot.
To be honest, I don't see Okposo as a first line player. I'd much rather see him on Bailey's wing as they seemed to have a bit of chemistry in Bailey's rookie year.. But the Isles seem set on playing Okposo with Tavares, so I was just going with the current reality of the lines in place.
As far as why I have Moulson/Nino interchangeable in a few years instead of slotting Nino in for Okposo.. The reason is, that is what I see in a few years from now. Moulson will be 30 this year. I don't know how many more years you can count on him playing at this level.


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01-17-2013, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Bones45 View Post
Which Bailey would you be speaking of? Cuz It can't be the Josh Bailey who plays for the Isles. He floats around and does nothing for 90% of the time.



Like Crosby?


I think people here need to realize that these prospects/teenagers which are touted as talent, NEED TO PLAY IN THE AHL FOR YEARS before they come to the NHL in order to be successful.



one year? Try THREE.

Isles mgmt is so dumb, they are ruining talent by bringing them up too early and letting them get mangled. This is the norm. Bailey is a perfect example.

Then you add the fact that they have no talent to play with, once they get here -- and the mistake is compounded.
I'm all for grooming talent, and what the Isles did in rushing Bailey and Nino was ridiculous.... But for you to say practically all skilled players need years in the AHL to develop these skills is a stretch... On top of that, saying Strome, Nelson and Sundstrom are all three years away is pushing it as well.. Some players develop quicker than others. Not all prospects develop along the same time line, nor do they all have the same size and strength.

And when I said Bailey needs to play with talented scorers, in case you are not aware, there are lots of talent levels in between Jesse Joensuu and Sidney Crosby.. I meant putting a guy on the second line doesn't mean anything unless he has legitimate 2nd line players on his line. In many ways, Bailey has been set up for failure as was Nino last year when you bury them on the 3rd or 4th line with linemates that couldn't buy a goal. So NO, i wasn't asking for a Sid Crosby to play alongside of Bailey. I was just saying that some players (Okposo) are handed spots (first line alongside of Tavares) that make it very easy to score, so if the team would like to see Bailey succeed, give him some linemates that can complement his talent level. Perhaps one veteran (Boyes or Okposo), and one big skilled kid such as Nelson or Nino over the likes of a Joensuu, Mcdonald or even Martin...

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01-17-2013, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang2750 View Post
The fact that Okposo is on our first line is a joke. He has sucked since hes been here and is not a first line player. I also dont understand how you are ok interchanging Nino w Moulson and not Okposo instead. I would like to see Moulson- JT- Nino much rather than Nino JT Okposo. Okposo should be on the third line...possibly second if he can improve pretty much every single thing he does. Also Bailey has been MUCH better as a winger than a center and when he returns he shoul have the second line winger spot.
Nino had ONE point last season. And before you blame his linemates-they all outscored him. He hasn't proven and/or earned a single thing at the NHL level-and honestly wasn't ready for the NHL last year. He should stay far away from the 2nd line-let alone the 1st.

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01-17-2013, 07:24 PM
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i would agree with you except you think bailey is a center

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01-17-2013, 07:35 PM
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When Bailey plays wing his game is much more north and south and simple. A lot of centers have made the switch to wing.

I just can't help but think that this will be Bailey's last year on the Island if he doesn't produce near a PPG pace when he gets healthy.

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01-17-2013, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
When Bailey plays wing his game is much more north and south and simple. A lot of centers have made the switch to wing.

I just can't help but think that this will be Bailey's last year on the Island if he doesn't produce near a PPG pace when he gets healthy.
That's just absolutely crazy talk. Go and look at how many guys scored at a PPG pace last year. It's easier said then done.

I'd be happy with a .7 PPG pace. He's still young, not a baby young, but still young enough where his game is still developing. Some guys develop differently than others, especially when you consider the fact that some people are thrown to the wolves way before they're ready (Bailey).

Fact of the matter is, Bailey has been a streak player in his career. He shows flashes of brilliance, then disappears for LONG stretches at a time. But when he is producing, he shows an ability that not many guys on our team have.

I don't see why we're so quick to get rid of him. I'm not saying hand him a 10 year deal and throw him on the first line, but to get rid of him because he doesn't produce a PPG is nuts.

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01-17-2013, 10:47 PM
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I also wanted to mention that I agree with the OP. If this team is gonna do anything, I think Bailey is gonna have to be one of the players that steps up big time.

If JT, Moulson, and Grabner are your "primary" scorers, then Bailey has to be one of the guys thats helping out on the "secondary" front.

I also agree with the posters that mentioned Bailey belongs on the wing. If we want him to be a scorer, right now he belongs on the wing. If he gets put at center, then he's gonna be a more steady 2 way player, not flashy on either end but solid.

Throw out numbers for a second, if you just watch Bailey when he first came into the league to now, its night and day. He's come so far on both ends. From what I've seen, at worst you have your future checking line center. You don't need him to be a banger, but a smart guy, who positions himself well but has some offensive ability.

He has good vision, and if he had better linemates, he would have better numbers. Let's hope he gets himself healthy and starts fulfilling his potential.

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01-17-2013, 10:48 PM
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[QUOTE=seafoam;57760503]When Bailey plays wing his game is much more north and south and simple. A lot of centers have made the switch to wing.

I just can't help but think that this will be Bailey's last year on the Island if he doesn't produce near a PPG pace when he gets healthy.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps Bailey will end up at wing, but I would like to see him get a legit shot at second line center this season. If he fails, Strome or Brock Nelson will be happy to take that second line center spot from him next year. Maybe Bailey would be better off playing wing for one of those two kids, but until then, let's give Bailey a shot.

A PPG is really stretching it. You're basically asking Bailey to have the year that Tavares had last year (81 points in 82 games). That put him in the top-10 scorers in the league. So are you saying Bailey has no future with the Isles if he doesn't end up in the top-10 scorers in the league this year?? If it was a full season, I'd be happy with 20-25- 45 points. If Bailey ends up playing 40 games this year, I'd be happy with 20-25 points.

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01-17-2013, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang2750 View Post
The fact that Okposo is on our first line is a joke. He has sucked since hes been here and is not a first line player. I also dont understand how you are ok interchanging Nino w Moulson and not Okposo instead. I would like to see Moulson- JT- Nino much rather than Nino JT Okposo. Okposo should be on the third line...possibly second if he can improve pretty much every single thing he does. Also Bailey has been MUCH better as a winger than a center and when he returns he shoul have the second line winger spot.
How is it a joke? There have been several times where KO has been slotted with JT and Matty Mo and they produced. Hell, when they first paired Okposo on the JT line last year they were the most dangerous line in the NHL for a short period of time. I think Okposo can definitely be a first line winger, my concern is that I keep hearing that he is playing unmotivated at camp and I fear he may be out of shape.

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01-17-2013, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by GusTheo View Post
That's just absolutely crazy talk. Go and look at how many guys scored at a PPG pace last year. It's easier said then done.

I'd be happy with a .7 PPG pace. He's still young, not a baby young, but still young enough where his game is still developing. Some guys develop differently than others, especially when you consider the fact that some people are thrown to the wolves way before they're ready (Bailey).

Fact of the matter is, Bailey has been a streak player in his career. He shows flashes of brilliance, then disappears for LONG stretches at a time. But when he is producing, he shows an ability that not many guys on our team have.

I don't see why we're so quick to get rid of him. I'm not saying hand him a 10 year deal and throw him on the first line, but to get rid of him because he doesn't produce a PPG is nuts.
[QUOTE=petrocelli;57770027]
Quote:
Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
When Bailey plays wing his game is much more north and south and simple. A lot of centers have made the switch to wing.

I just can't help but think that this will be Bailey's last year on the Island if he doesn't produce near a PPG pace when he gets healthy.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps Bailey will end up at wing, but I would like to see him get a legit shot at second line center this season. If he fails, Strome or Brock Nelson will be happy to take that second line center spot from him next year. Maybe Bailey would be better off playing wing for one of those two kids, but until then, let's give Bailey a shot.

A PPG is really stretching it. You're basically asking Bailey to have the year that Tavares had last year (81 points in 82 games). That put him in the top-10 scorers in the league. So are you saying Bailey has no future with the Isles if he doesn't end up in the top-10 scorers in the league this year?? If it was a full season, I'd be happy with 20-25- 45 points. If Bailey ends up playing 40 games this year, I'd be happy with 20-25 points.
I said near a point per game pace. For example, GusTheo suggested a .7 point per game pace and I think that number is somewhere in the ballpark of where he needs to be consistenly in order for Garth to offer him a long term deal. The fact of the matter is there are going to be prospects pushing for that second line line spot and is Bails doesn't consistenly provide quaility top six scoring, then he could be trade bait.

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01-18-2013, 01:28 AM
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[QUOTE=seafoam;57772237]
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrocelli View Post

I said near a point per game pace. For example, GusTheo suggested a .7 point per game pace and I think that number is somewhere in the ballpark of where he needs to be consistenly in order for Garth to offer him a long term deal. The fact of the matter is there are going to be prospects pushing for that second line line spot and is Bails doesn't consistenly provide quaility top six scoring, then he could be trade bait.
They could push all they want, but unless these guys come in and flat out win it, then they shouldn't be here. It sucks that when Crosby and Ovechkin came along and produced right away, and now all of a sudden all prospects are supposed to come in and be world beaters before they're old enough to drink.

Guys like Strome, Nelson, and Nino should come along at a nice slow pace. Let them develop, to force it down their throat. Unfortunately for Bailey, he was thrust into action, and I truly believe its effected him. When he's going good, he's playing with confidence. No reason to rush the guys you listed as pushing for spots.

I hope they do push, competitions breeds success. But unless they come in and absolutely wow you, let them develop at a normal rate.

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01-18-2013, 02:17 AM
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It's a catch 22, guys like bailey would not be rushed if they were surrounded by proven NHL talent. Someone needs to score and since Snow has not made any trades for forwards or brought in any quality free agents, the weight of scoring has been put on young drafted players such as bailey.

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01-18-2013, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GusTheo View Post
That's just absolutely crazy talk. Go and look at how many guys scored at a PPG pace last year. It's easier said then done.

I'd be happy with a .7 PPG pace. He's still young, not a baby young, but still young enough where his game is still developing. Some guys develop differently than others, especially when you consider the fact that some people are thrown to the wolves way before they're ready (Bailey).

Fact of the matter is, Bailey has been a streak player in his career. He shows flashes of brilliance, then disappears for LONG stretches at a time. But when he is producing, he shows an ability that not many guys on our team have.

I don't see why we're so quick to get rid of him. I'm not saying hand him a 10 year deal and throw him on the first line, but to get rid of him because he doesn't produce a PPG is nuts.
I concur, especially when you consider he likely will not be on the first line. Not only do few players manage a PPG, almost no one manages it without first line minutes.

I would be very pleased with 0.7 PPG (about a 60 pt pace in 82 games) from Bailey this season.

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02-09-2013, 09:44 PM
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Great to see Josh Bailey come out on fire tonight.... He picked up right where he left off last year!! 7 shots on net. Consistently throwing the body around. Skating hard.. His whole line looked to have an extra step tonight because of his lead....

Go Bailey!! This be the year!!

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