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Zack Bogosian to Detroit

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Old
01-17-2013, 04:43 PM
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
I guess the real question is... Do scouts view Nyquist as a top 6 winger right now? If the answer is yes then I am not so sure how much "lack of NHL experience" matters. He dominated college as an underager (soph). He then came back as a junior regarded as the best player in the league and every team tried to shut him down and he dominated again. He then dominated his first two years in the AHL on a horrible griffins team being targeted each game. He looked adequate in his first nhl games (though slightly undersized). At this point it is reasonable to believe that scouts know exactly what he is.

I would argue he is a player 10 pounds away from being a top line winger. I see Alex Tanguay as his downside and Patrick Kane light as his upside pretty much locked in. There is real player trade value there not (prospect trade value).

If we think objectively Nyquist is probably a better prospect than Smith (who I agree is over-hyped).

Nyquist+Sproul/Oulette (blue chip younger D prospects) gets this done imo. Just enough to be painful on the wings side.
I think Nyquist will be good in a couple years, but I don't think he's ready for full time NHL duty yet. Bogo has been in the big leagues for years now and had a fantastic year last year. To get him out of Winnipeg, it's going to be more than a little painful for the Red Wings, because letting Bogo go is going to hurt like a ***** for the Jets.

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01-17-2013, 04:44 PM
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post

Nyquist may very well become a 70+ point forward, but he wasn't one last year. As per garrets advanced stats, and anyone that watched 20 + jets games, last year Bogosian was a very good nhl defencemen. He's also younger then nyquist. Maybe some will give nyquist the benefit of the doubt strictly because he's in detroits system, but i'm not going to. There's a far bigger chance nyquist fails at being a top 6 player then bogosian being less then a top 3 d man (as one has achieved this goal in the apst and one hasn't). That's all i'm saying.
I agree

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Old
01-17-2013, 04:49 PM
  #228
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Why won't this rumor go away? I'd find a story/rumor about a Postma or Franson way more interesting than this.

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01-17-2013, 04:54 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
this is an extrodinarily rational post.

thank you sir. You and the one above are the two most realistic interpretations of the Red Wings i have read on hear in a long, long time.

especially that first sentance, that is bang on.
I didn't mean to say we are really trying to be "shifty" and steal the players, just that we have to realize the upside on our players combined with almost no NHL experience lowers their trade value.
They are possibly homerun players to us, but to other teams.. not so much. Detroit has the kind of prospects you trade 2-3 years after they make the NHL, not before they make the NHL

edit (ironically if they make the NHL, we probably do not want to trade them lol)

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01-17-2013, 05:01 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marky9er View Post
Why won't this rumor go away? I'd find a story/rumor about a Postma or Franson way more interesting than this.
My feeling is either Holland or Nill are never quiet on Bogosian. Clearly one if not both have a huge man crush on him. But it isn't just Regner that won't let it die, Khan speaks on it frequent enough as does Helene St. James.

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01-17-2013, 05:04 PM
  #231
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Some people were saying Bogosians 23. This might be splitting hairs but he's 22 and won't be 23 at any point this season.

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01-17-2013, 05:09 PM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post
I didn't mean to say we are really trying to be "shifty" and steal the players, just that we have to realize the upside on our players combined with almost no NHL experience lowers their trade value.
They are possibly homerun players to us, but to other teams.. not so much. Detroit has the kind of prospects you trade 2-3 years after they make the NHL, not before they make the NHL

edit (ironically if they make the NHL, we probably do not want to trade them lol)
on the shifty part thats not what i was emphasisng, mostly just the unproven for half proven part and not getting why other teams fans aren't thrilled with the proposals.

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01-17-2013, 05:36 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
My feeling is either Holland or Nill are never quiet on Bogosian. Clearly one if not both have a huge man crush on him. But it isn't just Regner that won't let it die, Khan speaks on it frequent enough as does Helene St. James.
They could atleast end with "asked for Bogo, but were countered with Meech."

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01-17-2013, 05:47 PM
  #234
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Sorry Detroit fans,

but not a chance in hell.

I have Nyquist in two of my keeper leagues(farm team) and although I really like him as a forward, he just can't compare to Bogosian. I share season tickets and I see Bogo alot. He is that good.

When, and if Trouba comes up. maybe Nyquist, a first, and a second.

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01-17-2013, 05:50 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marky9er View Post
Why won't this rumor go away? I'd find a story/rumor about a Postma or Franson way more interesting than this.
Do you understand what a rumor even is?

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01-17-2013, 05:55 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by aqsw View Post
Sorry Detroit fans,

but not a chance in hell.

I have Nyquist in two of my keeper leagues(farm team) and although I really like him as a forward, he just can't compare to Bogosian. I share season tickets and I see Bogo alot. He is that good.

When, and if Trouba comes up. maybe Nyquist, a first, and a second.
Rather see what Bogosian and Trouba can do together....

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Old
01-17-2013, 06:23 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Based on what? He was on pace to break the Griffins rookie scoring record. He's played PPG to near PPG in the minors. He jumped right onto the first line when called up and did not look out of place. If anything, I feel vindicated of the hype around Nyquist and think you're the one acting ridiculous. This is a really good hockey player and I'm excited to see him play. His performance has warranted this hype.
His performance has warranted excitement, true. But not anointment as the Chosen One, and certainly not nomination as a good candidate for a straight-up trade with Winnipeg for Zach freakin' Bogosian.

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Who said this? Who?! I would like to know. I've never said this.
In this thread, that specifically? Nobody in particular. It's more emblematic of the attitude of that subgroup.

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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Again, you are overreacting. It's this sentiment that "Red Wings fans act superior and believe every person they draft is a stud" that ticks me off.
If you look very carefully, you may notice that I was referring to a minority of Wings fans that are getting a lot of notice over and above the rest.

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Could you blame us when out of nowhere Ericsson pops up and plays out of his mind during the playoffs?
Yes. Unreservedly.

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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
The fact that we turned a 7th round pick into a decent defensive Dman is remarkable in and of itself.
True. But that is not what he was sold as - by certain Wings fans and by the hockey media in general - at the time.

Reminds me a lot of the recent worship of Chris Kreider, actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
We lost Lidstrom so it's a guarantee we aren't contenders and the playoffs aren't a sure thing? Ok... Same as last time when Yzerman and Shanahan were getting old and left/retire...
Y'know, if you read that very carefully, you might notice that I was actually mocking the "dooooom!" argument.

On the off chance that my personal position on the Wings' chances matter (which it might, since someone else already commented on it), I think they're in a real, serious fight to make the playoffs for the first time in a long while and so there's a tangible risk of that streak being broken. That's all.

Now, some hockey fans outside of the Wings fanbase are noting this and moving on; others, however, are gleefully anticipating its inevitability based on little more than sheer jealousy built up over the years (that would be the "OLD PEOPLE PRESENTED BY AMWAY" crowd I referred to). Among Wings fans, some fans are acknowledging the risk and just coping, others are blowing it off and looking forward to the games regardless, but others still - the ones I lament in that post - are not just blowing it off, but insisting it's not a problem at all "because we're Detroit, so there" and castigating anyone who dares suggest that maybe, just maybe, the situation right now is a tad shaky for the Red Wings.

I wish I could say with confidence that Detroit is doomed. But I try not to lie to myself like that. They're shaky this year, and MAYBE next if the rest of us in the Central Division are lucky but that seems unlikely to last. I can hope that they won't be as dominant going forward, but they're not about to have another Dead Things era anytime soon. Alas!

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01-17-2013, 06:33 PM
  #238
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I think Nyqusit+Ouellet gets the ball rolling, the wings would still have to add something else possible & depending on the + it may make it not worth for the wings. I'd like to see Bogosian have another solid season before I would unload the farm for him though.

Also isn't it funny how Detroit could have possible gotten him for a 1st+Kindl... Ah that would've been nice.

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01-17-2013, 06:33 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post
Ericson, Kindl, Coliacovo are #6 guys
it's amazing how little respect some Wings fans have for Ericsson

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01-17-2013, 06:34 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by porknbeans1000 View Post
Do you understand what a rumor even is?
I suppose it is like a tumor. It won't go away until someone cuts it out.
Quote:
Reports surfaced today that the Wings may be in on a trade for Atlanta defenseman Zach Bogosian a former first round draft pick (3rd overall) in the 2008 NHL Draft.

So who would the Wings have to give up?

Atlanta reportedly wants Jiri Hudler, a first round pick, Jonathan Ericsson or Jakub Kindl.

Wings GM Ken Holland has however told ESPN.com and the Detroit Free Press that he has had no contact with the Atlanta Thrashers regarding Bogosian.

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01-17-2013, 06:39 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
So is Big Buff going back to forward? At some point very soon Winnipeg will be forced to make a decision on one of Trouba, Buff and Bogosian. How many pairings in the top 4 can you name with two right handers? Heck in the history of the league how many have their been?

They might not do it now and Regner is probably off in total value I agree with that. But this idea that one of those three right handed d-man isn't going to hit the market at some point soon doesn't really scan with me. One of them can likely be had for the right package.
exactly what I think, this is what I meant by saying the jets have the luxury to trade a guy like bogosian to increase their offense.

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01-17-2013, 06:41 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
I think Nyquist will be good in a couple years, but I don't think he's ready for full time NHL duty yet. Bogo has been in the big leagues for years now and had a fantastic year last year. To get him out of Winnipeg, it's going to be more than a little painful for the Red Wings, because letting Bogo go is going to hurt like a ***** for the Jets.
Nyquist is ready. Has been for awhile now.

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01-17-2013, 07:06 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
it's amazing how little respect some Wings fans have for Ericsson
Ya, Ericsson is only an OK D man, but ive been spoiled watching really good ones for too long i guess

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01-17-2013, 07:46 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
exactly what I think, this is what I meant by saying the jets have the luxury to trade a guy like bogosian to increase their offense.
We are not trading away Bogosian our best all around defencemen last year because of Byfuglien and Trouba lol if anything provided Trouba can make the jump we would look to move Byfuglien

Also wayyyy too big of a deal is being made of how many right handed defencemen we have left handed guys play the right side all the time it's no different for any of the guys on our team they can play on the other side

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01-17-2013, 08:24 PM
  #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
So is Big Buff going back to forward? At some point very soon Winnipeg will be forced to make a decision on one of Trouba, Buff and Bogosian. How many pairings in the top 4 can you name with two right handers? Heck in the history of the league how many have their been?

They might not do it now and Regner is probably off in total value I agree with that. But this idea that one of those three right handed d-man isn't going to hit the market at some point soon doesn't really scan with me. One of them can likely be had for the right package.
Maybe at some point they may have to make decisions regarding their d-man , but as of now Trouba is an 18 year old college freshman, 10 years younger than Buff. This is hardly a reason for the Jets to give away a guy with Bogosian's potential.

Besides how can this guy be plugged into the Red Wings when he has no clue about Bogo's situation in Winnipeg.

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01-17-2013, 08:41 PM
  #246
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Bogo being shopped?

I highly doubt that

He isnt going anywhere, anytime soon

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01-17-2013, 08:48 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
Regner is probably one of the worst sports radio guys our city has seen. The guy tries to show he knows his ****, but in reality he's always further from it.
This makes sense. I was trying to figure out how this guy was a plugged in media guy in Detroit. Watching the clip he looks and sounds like some guy living in his parent's basement spotting off like he knows what he is talking about after reading the most recent edition of the hockey news.

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01-17-2013, 08:50 PM
  #248
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Wow, if this happens Jets better get Nyquist++

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Old
01-17-2013, 08:52 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
He pretty much has been in general. Not by all Wings fans, tho.

The Red Wings fanbase is presently getting embarrassed by a vocal subgroup that is unshakably convinced that some subset of Nyquist/Tartar/Jurco/Smith/etc. WILL be the next underrated unheralded NHL superstars a la Datsyuk/Zetterberg and those who don't get that far and Helm WILL be the next irreplacable roleplaying lifers a la Draper/Drake/etc. for no particular reason beyond "that's just how it works with the Red Wings", and that folks aren't immediately agreeing because of persecution/ignorance/ThanksGaryAss/whatever. The media-driven mystique of "Detroit always drafts stars in late rounds" sure as heck isn't helping (remember when Ericsson was going to be a regular Norris contender?).

So far, however, manifestations of this insanity have been limited largely to "we're still a Cup contender and the playoffs are a guarantee". More moderate and sensible Wings fans have been unable to address this in any comprehensive fashion, as they've been busy trying to fend off the equally insane vultures from other teams who maniacally insist that this is finally Detroit's time to be a doomed failure because OMG OLD PEOPLE PRESENTED BY AMWAY.

The "we are NHL gods" nutcases have taken an unprecedented step with this one, though. It's rather painful to see. I'd feel bad for the reasonable Wings fans, except, well, they're Wings fans.
As a Wings fan and a realist let me address it all. The Wings are no longer a stanley cup contender and there are in danger of missing the playoffs this year due to the weakest defense in decades.

As for the prospects we're all hoping they turn into stars some might or they may not. They have a pretty good prospect pool one of their deepest in years but there are problems within the pool. The defense depth is weaker and most are far away from the NHL. The forwards are a mix bunch some high skill but small size and some bigger ones that arent peforming that well. In goal Mrazek looks like a stud prospect but it's early for that as this his only his first AHL season. Smith will probably be a good offensive defensmen but his defensive game is suspect. Nyquist looks like a 2nd liner or possible 1st liner. Star probably not but dependable player like Filppula is more likely. No one really knows how they will all turn out. Jarnkrok has tons of talent and may remind people of a young Zetterberg but that is yet to be determined he has to still gain lots of muscle and adapt to NA ice so who knows.

I would love Bogosian on Detroit have wanted him on my team for years. At the very least he'll be a depenable 3rd defensemen for many years but his upside is top pairing and he'll probably get there in time. Trouba looks absolutely phenomenal and reminds me alot of Konstantinov. Winnipeg would be smart to keep them both. But if they decide to move Bogosian it wont be until Trouba is in the NHL and has established himself (which wont be long)

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01-17-2013, 09:12 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by Go Wings View Post
As a Wings fan and a realist let me address it all. The Wings are no longer a stanley cup contender and there are in danger of missing the playoffs this year due to the weakest defense in decades.

As for the prospects we're all hoping they turn into stars some might or they may not. They have a pretty good prospect pool one of their deepest in years but there are problems within the pool. The defense depth is weaker and most are far away from the NHL. The forwards are a mix bunch some high skill but small size and some bigger ones that arent peforming that well. In goal Mrazek looks like a stud prospect but it's early for that as this his only his first AHL season. Smith will probably be a good offensive defensmen but his defensive game is suspect. Nyquist looks like a 2nd liner or possible 1st liner. Star probably not but dependable player like Filppula is more likely. No one really knows how they will all turn out. Jarnkrok has tons of talent and may remind people of a young Zetterberg but that is yet to be determined he has to still gain lots of muscle and adapt to NA ice so who knows.

I would love Bogosian on Detroit have wanted him on my team for years. At the very least he'll be a depenable 3rd defensemen for many years but his upside is top pairing and he'll probably get there in time. Trouba looks absolutely phenomenal and reminds me alot of Konstantinov. Winnipeg would be smart to keep them both. But if they decide to move Bogosian it wont be until Trouba is in the NHL and has established himself (which wont be long)
Having both Bogo and Trouba develop to their full potential is a very good thing for the Jets and why would they want to move one. By the time that happens Buff will be in his 30's and likely losing a step and would more likely be the guy they will move. Enstrom would still be young enough to give the Jets a top end defense group.

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