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In Soviet Russia, Ryan O'Reilly signs you.

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Old
01-17-2013, 11:13 PM
  #626
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Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
You want a guy gone just because he wants money? I think people expect him to use that money to buy lambos and get the ladies. For all you know he could be penny pinching so he could give more to charity. Would that change your view on him?
no. i don't care what he does with the money.
really don't even dislike him much because of it, I just want a #2 defenseman way more than Ryan.

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01-17-2013, 11:13 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Good blog by Dater.

You have to hope there are some sane people around O'Reilly that can guide him in the right direction.
True. Level headed and some insight. Somebody mentioned it previously, but Dater has been better of late. Maybe the extended break did him some good.

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01-17-2013, 11:15 PM
  #628
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Good blog by Dater.

You have to hope there are some sane people around O'Reilly that can guide him in the right direction.
Good blog. At this point someone in his camp needs to convince him to get his head out of his ***.


Last edited by Frenchy: 01-18-2013 at 09:46 AM.
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01-17-2013, 11:18 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by Mouse21 View Post
no. i don't care what he does with the money.
really don't even dislike him much because of it, I just want a #2 defenseman way more than Ryan.
I'd rather have Ryan. The #2 dman will be acquired by trading Stastny.

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01-17-2013, 11:20 PM
  #630
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Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
I'd rather have Ryan. The #2 dman will be acquired by trading Stastny.
Of course you think that.

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01-17-2013, 11:23 PM
  #631
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Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
I'd rather have Ryan. The #2 dman will be acquired by trading Stastny.
At least Stastny isn't a greedy ******.

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01-17-2013, 11:27 PM
  #632
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At least Stastny isn't a greedy ******.
I mean who's counting when you're handed a 6.6 million/year contract, especially in the cap environment back then.

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01-17-2013, 11:37 PM
  #633
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Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
I'd rather have Ryan. The #2 dman will be acquired by trading Stastny.
Unless you're getting unreal value for him or he isn't willing to extend his contract, trading Stastny would be a mistake.

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01-17-2013, 11:38 PM
  #634
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Originally Posted by Mifroid View Post
He was a hero for the Avs fans weeks ago, and now everyone wants him gone
The problem is if O'Reilly is expecting a contract that pays him most likely over his value and then brings him to UFA, which tells some fans maybe he doesn't really want to play here.. hence the pipe dreams and trade thoughts.

We all still think he's a good player, he's a great two way guy, but if he doesn't want to be here and I doubt he wants to play in Russia the rest of his life, it's one of the only options.

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01-17-2013, 11:49 PM
  #635
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all the Avs have to do is wait him out and let him miss that money.
he's not going to get more leverage without playing in the NHL. if anything he should just sign a two year deal and demand the contract later.

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01-17-2013, 11:50 PM
  #636
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Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
I mean who's counting when you're handed a 6.6 million/year contract, especially in the cap environment back then.
he was handed that contract by a GM that happily overpaid.
he didnt handicap his team forcing them to match a deal in the KHL.

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01-18-2013, 12:00 AM
  #637
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Originally Posted by CalderKing21 View Post
all the Avs have to do is wait him out and let him miss that money.
he's not going to get more leverage without playing in the NHL. if anything he should just sign a two year deal and demand the contract later.
Miss what money? He's making more in the KHL than he will in the NHL. I do agree that he has very little leverage though, if any at all.

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01-18-2013, 12:07 AM
  #638
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Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
You want a guy gone just because he wants money? I think people expect him to use that money to buy lambos and get the ladies. For all you know he could be penny pinching so he could give more to charity. Would that change your view on him?
oh please, they give to charity for the tax break.

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01-18-2013, 12:21 AM
  #639
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Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
You want a guy gone just because he wants money? I think people expect him to use that money to buy lambos and get the ladies. For all you know he could be penny pinching so he could give more to charity. Would that change your view on him?
Yeah, he's basically ****ing the Avs over and pulling this KHL bs so he can earn an extra 500k to donate to charity. I know you probably didn't mean this literally but still, it's nothing but selfish to put the Avs in a position like this, especially considering what his teammates have signed for (as mentioned). The dude should be thankful we were practically coachless last year or else he wouldn't be making anything more than 3m.

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01-18-2013, 12:51 AM
  #640
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Originally Posted by Mouse21 View Post
he was handed that contract by a GM that happily overpaid.
he didnt handicap his team forcing them to match a deal in the KHL.
Haha I'm not saying he's greedy, I'm saying how could we ever know since he had probably the easiest negotiation ever with FG

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01-18-2013, 01:05 AM
  #641
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Sorry, I'm actually a big fan of Dater's, but I'm disagreeing with him here.

No, these offers were not "more than fair." Were they insulting offers? I think the "bridge" deal was, yes. I don't think the five year, $17 million offer was...though it was a below-market offer. I HOPE they can find a middle ground between that offer and the $5 million per that Guy and O'Reilly want...at least they're still talking, but the fact that no progress has been made is very alarming.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you Ryan O'Reilly is the epitome of class. Yeah, frankly I too fear he's trying to over-leverage one excellent offensive year, even though I don't agree with Dater that he had two mediocre years to start (he was a defensive forward, and played well in that role). Dater's biggest flaw is that he continually overlooks the contributions of defensive forwards...he couldn't stop railing on and on about how Jay McClement put up crappy numbers and even went so far as to compare them to Stewart's right after the trade. Ridiculous.

But regardless of whose fault this is, it has officially gotten ugly. I think it's clear at the very least he blew any chance of getting the captaincy by letting things get this far, even though I think the Avs made a mistake making Landy the captain this soon.

I think a resolution needs to be found, and soon. And regardless of whatever principles may be involved, I think the Avalanche will be making a gigantic mistake if they end up dragging this out well into the season or trading his rights.

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01-18-2013, 01:10 AM
  #642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouse21 View Post
At least Stastny isn't a greedy ******.
It's hard to be greedy when you're already getting overpaid by a couple million.

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01-18-2013, 02:27 AM
  #643
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The whole lock-out charade and now this with RoR is really dicking up my view of hockey players


Last edited by Qurpiz: 01-18-2013 at 09:36 AM.
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Old
01-18-2013, 02:56 AM
  #644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Good blog by Dater.

You have to hope there are some sane people around O'Reilly that can guide him in the right direction.
If he gets hurt – and already he has suffered what’s been termed a minor leg injury – you take your chances with the medical expertise offered over there.

Didn't know Dater have experience with Russian medicine...

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01-18-2013, 03:07 AM
  #645
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SoS is flat out stealing millions and he isn't getting hated on like factor is.

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01-18-2013, 03:09 AM
  #646
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I'd been hoping all this time that the sinking feeling I got in my gut upon learning that O'Reilly had signed in Russia and what his terms for returning were would turn out to have been misplaced anxiety. Heck, even then I wasn't too worried about him not returning - it was more that his tactic would backfire and he'd be shipped out by the trade deadline for being a putz.

But now he'll be missing games in what is an abbreviated season, and for what? Near as I can tell, he's gotten two offers that are fair value. And I tend to side with players when it comes to negotiations. But I can't do that when a guy has priced himself out of reality, hoping that Sherman may be as weak or make the same mistakes as a few other GMs around the league. He wants to be an outlier. Well, can't blame him for trying, but when you've been at it for months and you're still not getting it, to the point where you're now missing games, it is time to re-assess things.

His stunt was bad news a month ago. But despite the Avs' penchant for not putting up with such crap, there was still a chance that they'd let bygones be bygones, chalk it all up to lockout fever and move on. But now he's really gone and done it. Hard to say what the Avs will do with him. They're obviously not budging, so unless he does, he stays in the KHL. Do they trade him unsigned at some point between now and the offseason, or do they let him stay in the KHL, watching as his NHL value plummets? Hell, even after this year his stock will be worth much less, let alone if he stays 2 years. He took a gamble, and he has very clearly lost.

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01-18-2013, 04:46 AM
  #647
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I apologize for a long post.

I'm not going to re-cap all the preceding arguments for and against whether or not Ryan is being reasonable in his demands, but I do have some remarks on the case.

1. I do not think it is fair to make disrespectful and dismissive comments about Ryan's alleged character based on the information we have. For all we know it might all be negotiating tactics. Also, what makes Ryan's situation so different than any other person on the job-market? He is trying to maximise the compensation he gets for spending most of his time laboring for an organization. An organization I might add, which has no higher purpose for the public good.

2. The way I see it he and his agent (based on the history of the his agency) is trying to change the value of restricted free agents. In this sense Ryan's contract is becoming a paradigmatic case, which potentially could change the market for young players coming out of their entry-level contract under the new CBA.

3. If I am right in my assumption, this is a huge risk, which will backfire because I just don't see that the Avs would be willing to assist in pushing the price of RFA upwards for several reasons. A) They don't want to be known as a team that overpays B) they have become very budget conscious C) they have been burned by being too generous earlier (Brett Clark anyone?).

4) Remember that Ryans IS taking a risk by trying to price himself above what is considered market value at this point for a player with his track record. This might end up costing him in the long run.

5) Yes, it sucks that we as fans of the Avalanche risk loosing, or at least not getting full value out one of the most respected players, because we are emotionally attached to the team, but it is Ryan's life and we don't have the right to make judgements about his character based on the scant information we have.

6) I think that Ryan was probably over-hyped by the media last year. He was portrayed as an unselfish, hard-working, team-first guy, with yoga-power (!) etc. Now these representations of Ryan are all VERY marketable, so this helped to inflate his value and his agent is using that as a leverage. This portrayal of Ryan as some kind of superhuman ultra-focused guy willing to give everything to a team we all care deeply about also might have increased most people's emotional investment in him and created unrealistic expectations. This is not Ryans fault.

7) Having said that. I do not think that the Avalanche should pay Ryan significantly more than Duchene, but given that Duchene's contract is probably below market-value I don't think that they should insist that he gets payed the same or less either.

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01-18-2013, 05:11 AM
  #648
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Btw, has it been confirmed about his KHL release clause? That we would need to match his salary there?

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01-18-2013, 05:17 AM
  #649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouse21 View Post
At least Stastny isn't a greedy ******.
But in 1.5 years he is an UFA coming off of a healthy 6.6 M a year contract.
If the Avs balk at his price (and I can certainly see that) or if he just wants to see something new, the Avs are screwed and left with Duchene and a big bunch of nothing at center.


We have to take this into the equation as well before we ship him out.

I really don't want to lose both guys in the matter of 1.5 years in exchange for a mediocre trade return.

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01-18-2013, 06:41 AM
  #650
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Good blog by Dater.

You have to hope there are some sane people around O'Reilly that can guide him in the right direction.
As much as it pains me to say, I'm losing respect for a guy I thought had the utmost character. A two-year 3.5mil deal means he gets to re-negotiate next summer at this juncture in the season. How is that unfair to a guy with one outstanding year to date?

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