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Senators vs Maple leafs(Honest discussion)

View Poll Results: Choose one.
Sens now and later 239 85.05%
Leafs now and later 13 4.63%
Sens now, Leafs later 23 8.19%
Leafs now, Sens later 6 2.14%
Voters: 281. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-17-2013, 09:33 PM
  #51
Nizdizzle
Salary cap? Huh?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roooney View Post
The first two years after the lockout they spanked the leafs. But after that leafs have 4 more wins head to head.
Spezza-Alfie-Heatley wasn't fair so those first two years don't count

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01-17-2013, 09:35 PM
  #52
Novak Djokovic
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Sens D sucks right now (add Cowen's injury to that) so I wouldn't be surprised to see the Leafs do better than us this year.

Future? I like the Sens.

P.S. I miss 2005-2008. Sens spanked the Leafs on a normal basis.

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Old
01-17-2013, 09:49 PM
  #53
MAK19
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Silfverberg
Turris
Zibanejad
Smith
O'Brien
Hoffman
Da Costa
Stone
Prince
Pageau
Noesen
Puempel
Grant

Karlsson
Cowen
Wiercioch
Ceci
Borowiecki
Gryba
Claesson
Wikstrand
Sdao
Aneloski

Lehner



Leafs can't touch this. As long as Dumbledore's around, the Sens can't be touched.

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Old
01-17-2013, 11:07 PM
  #54
Nizdizzle
Salary cap? Huh?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Silfverberg
Turris
Zibanejad
Smith
O'Brien
Hoffman
Da Costa
Stone
Prince
Pageau

Noesen
Puempel
Grant

Karlsson
Cowen
Wiercioch
Ceci
Borowiecki
Gryba
Claesson
Wikstrand
Sdao
Aneloski


Lehner


Leafs can't touch this. As long as Dumbledore's around, the Sens can't be touched.
Any team in the League can list off prospects like the ones bolded, they are a dime a dozen

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Old
01-17-2013, 11:12 PM
  #55
MAK19
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Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
Any team in the League can list off prospects like the ones bolded, they are a dime a dozen
Except the guys you bolded would be ''any team's'' top prospects. They're secondary prospects for the Sens, and all have NHL potential.


Also, I see you bolded Smith. The Leafs, for example, don't even have a guy like that. Not as easy to find as you think.

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Old
01-17-2013, 11:57 PM
  #56
HavlatMach9
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Kicking the Leafs while they are down. Ottawa has good pieces at all position and a more ideal core, while the Leafs have changed personnel and are rebuilding, so I don't see why this thread was needed.

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Old
01-18-2013, 12:00 AM
  #57
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Senators


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Old
01-18-2013, 12:28 AM
  #58
MAK19
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Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
You must be trolling, so I'll just let you live in your little world
So who's your Smith? Dave Steckel? When was the last time you had a player like Smith?



Stone, Da Costa, Prince, Pageau, Borowiecki, Wikstrand... that's a decent prospect pool. Those guys alone are better than what a lot of team have like the Sharks and what not.

Take those guys you bolded, add one top end-ish prospect like Baertschi or something and you probably have a top 10 prospect pool in the league.

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Old
01-18-2013, 12:28 AM
  #59
Benny FTW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
Any team in the League can list off prospects like the ones bolded, they are a dime a dozen
Stone being a dime a dozen. I lol'd.

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Old
01-18-2013, 12:34 AM
  #60
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I think that has more to do with goaltending and a poor defensive structure. Phaneuf is really good at matching up against high calibre players. He has the ability to get under their skin which was shown last year when he frustrated Stamkos so much Stamkos actually started a fight with him. He's also done it with Malkin and Ovechkin.

Plus his offensive numbers are good for a number one Dman. There's a lot of factors that describes a player and characterizing a player completely based on the team he plays for can't be seen as an accurate description.
He's not a particularly good skater and has the hockey IQ of a rock. His "bugging individual players" consists of going for big open ice hits that leave him out of position with no chance of recovery and harassing people after the whistle. Good TV, not so good hockey.

If he's your #1D, you're not sniffing a cup.

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Old
01-18-2013, 12:36 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Except the guys you bolded would be ''any team's'' top prospects. They're secondary prospects for the Sens, and all have NHL potential.


Also, I see you bolded Smith. The Leafs, for example, don't even have a guy like that. Not as easy to find as you think.
Uh, no. Any team can list their #5-#15 hf ranked prospects and hit players of that level. A couple guys with 3rd line upside and maybe one or two that have a 5% chance of becoming top 6.

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01-18-2013, 12:42 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Uh, no. Any team can list their #5-#15 hf ranked prospects and hit players of that level. A couple guys with 3rd line upside and maybe one or two that have a 5% chance of becoming top 6.
Da Costa, Stone, Pageau and Prince all have a shot at top 6... the first 2 being significantly higher than 5%.

Smith and O'Brien are great bottom 6 guys right now. Grant should at least be a 4th liner.

Hoffman's potential is foggy but all the NHL skills seem to be there.

Gryba and Borowiecki should be 3rd pair guys.

Claesson, Aneloski and Sdao are up in the air, but the NHL is not out of the question especially for Sdao who has progressed nicely.

Wikstrand has top 4 upside.



Yeah, very very few teams have prospects as good as that from #5-15.

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Old
01-18-2013, 12:43 AM
  #63
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Senators for a while unless the Leafs get a #1 tender soon...

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Old
01-18-2013, 12:50 AM
  #64
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Senators are going to be the better team for at least the next couple years. Beyond that, it's anybody's guess, much like the rest of the NHL.

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Old
01-18-2013, 05:59 AM
  #65
Atomos2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Silfverberg
Turris
Zibanejad
Smith
O'Brien
Hoffman
Da Costa
Stone
Prince
Pageau
Noesen
Puempel
Grant

Karlsson
Cowen
Wiercioch
Ceci
Borowiecki
Gryba
Claesson
Wikstrand
Sdao
Aneloski

Lehner



Leafs can't touch this. As long as Dumbledore's around, the Sens can't be touched.
Karlsson, Lehner and maybe Silfverberg and Zibenjad are the only ones I'm impressed with on that prospect list. Beyond that I think you're just listing names with no proven real talent. I don't necessarily think all(if any) of these kids are better, but at least I'm not just listing names and expecting others to take it on blind faith that these names are better than their prospects.

Gardiner
Rielly 1st rd
Kadri 1st rd
Frattin Hobey Baker finalist
Finn 2nd rd OHL captain
Biggs 1st rd
Colborne 1st rd
Ashton 1st rd
Percy 1st rd OHL Captain
Holzer 2010 Olympian
Brown Top 10 scorer in the OHL and OHL captain
D'amigo 2009 world juniors first team all star
Abbott Hobey Baker Finalist
Ross 2nd rd

I could give more but I'm not going to fake it and pretend like I know all of the prospects and just write out there names expecting you to just get it.


Last edited by Atomos2: 01-18-2013 at 06:10 AM.
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Old
01-18-2013, 06:02 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
Any team in the League can list off prospects like the ones bolded, they are a dime a dozen
Mark Stone could become a dime-a-dozen prospect, but right now he isn't. The rest are.

I say sens, but with a rivalry like this, the standings may not be close, but you know the season series will be a great one.

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01-18-2013, 08:01 AM
  #67
Nizdizzle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Stone being a dime a dozen. I lol'd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Mark Stone could become a dime-a-dozen prospect, but right now he isn't. The rest are.

I say sens, but with a rivalry like this, the standings may not be close, but you know the season series will be a great one.
I missed Stone on my first glance through, point still stands

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Old
01-18-2013, 08:18 AM
  #68
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Leafs. When Karlsson and Spezza retire ....

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Old
01-18-2013, 08:40 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
Leafs. When Karlsson and Spezza retire ....
23 and 29?

Ultimately I'm fairly confident as the Ottawa Senators organization has a strong track record of developing its top prospects into regular NHL contributors.

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01-18-2013, 08:42 AM
  #70
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Sens now Leafs later. But not by much. Im not convinced they are a playoff team this year. Last year was a fluke.

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01-18-2013, 08:54 AM
  #71
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Senators now and in the future. Spezza has grown into a terrific all-around player, and I still think he's a legitimate Art Ross threat if Murray surrounds him with the right players. Then having a franchise defenseman who is already Norris caliber at such a young age, I don't see the Senators going anywhere but up in the next half a decade, if Lehner turns out to be the real deal they could be a contender in the East for sure.

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Old
01-18-2013, 09:57 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
Any team in the League can list off prospects like the ones bolded, they are a dime a dozen
I won't disagree that the bulk of the prospects listed are dime 'a dozen types. The difference is that the Sens have a lot of them, more than the vast majority of the league.

One overlooked advantage that a deep pool brings is a better development environment. It should breed better competition and results. Look at Bingo and the success that they are having. Most of the guys on the team have NHL upside, even if it is depth type. Prior to the callup it was impossible to figure out which line was 2nd 3rd or fourth. Even now, it is hard.

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Old
01-18-2013, 10:00 AM
  #73
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Dunno why people are saying Sens have the better prospects. They may have more diversity but if the leafs D prospects pan out, they could have the best D core in the league in 3-5 years especially if they get a top prospect like Jones in this upcoming draft. (No homer)

It could look like this

Gardiner - Jones
Rielly - Phaneuf
Percy - Finn
Franson/Holzer/Blacker/Ranger

Even without Jones that is excellent stuff.

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Old
01-18-2013, 10:26 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by MrFunnyWobbl View Post
Leafs now, sens later
Lolwut

If anything it'd be the other way around, but I don't even think that will be the case.

Sens now AND future IMO

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Old
01-18-2013, 10:47 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
Dunno why people are saying Sens have the better prospects. They may have more diversity but if the leafs D prospects pan out, they could have the best D core in the league in 3-5 years especially if they get a top prospect like Jones in this upcoming draft. (No homer)

It could look like this

Gardiner - Jones
Rielly - Phaneuf
Percy - Finn
Franson/Holzer/Blacker/Ranger

Even without Jones that is excellent stuff.
You could say the same about a lot of teams if you randomly add Jones and get lucky with some players development, but when was the last time a d corps that young was top 3-5 in the league?

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