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Zack Bogosian to Detroit

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01-17-2013, 09:14 PM
  #251
Flair Hay
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Originally Posted by Go Wings View Post
As a Wings fan and a realist let me address it all. The Wings are no longer a stanley cup contender and there are in danger of missing the playoffs this year due to the weakest defense in decades.

As for the prospects we're all hoping they turn into stars some might or they may not. They have a pretty good prospect pool one of their deepest in years but there are problems within the pool. The defense depth is weaker and most are far away from the NHL. The forwards are a mix bunch some high skill but small size and some bigger ones that arent peforming that well. In goal Mrazek looks like a stud prospect but it's early for that as this his only his first AHL season. Smith will probably be a good offensive defensmen but his defensive game is suspect. Nyquist looks like a 2nd liner or possible 1st liner. Star probably not but dependable player like Filppula is more likely. No one really knows how they will all turn out. Jarnkrok has tons of talent and may remind people of a young Zetterberg but that is yet to be determined he has to still gain lots of muscle and adapt to NA ice so who knows.

I would love Bogosian on Detroit have wanted him on my team for years. At the very least he'll be a depenable 3rd defensemen for many years but his upside is top pairing and he'll probably get there in time. Trouba looks absolutely phenomenal and reminds me alot of Konstantinov. Winnipeg would be smart to keep them both. But if they decide to move Bogosian it wont be until Trouba is in the NHL and has established himself (which wont be long)
Thanks for the low down man. The praise for Trouba around here has been hard to ignore. Wicked news for Jets fans.

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01-17-2013, 09:24 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
Thanks for the low down man. The praise for Trouba around here has been hard to ignore. Wicked news for Jets fans.
Lots of Wings fans get to see a lot of him at U of M, plus he was a big local name before that. You will hard pressed to find someone with bad reviews on him even before the WJC. I am a Spartan fan and could not shut up about the kid heading into the draft before he even played for U of M. He is a talent and was always a safe top 4 bet, but with the way he is developing he is even better offensively than even I thought he would be. Those tools were there, but he is getting to a I have no idea where his true ceiling is point.

Very jealous of the Jets, Minnesota and Pittsburgh should be kicking themselves. I thought he was the second best d-man entering the draft understood the guys wanting some of the bigger names that went in front of him, but the two picks right in front of him were just flat out wrong and they will look that way for a very long time.

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01-17-2013, 09:27 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Lots of Wings fans get to see a lot of him at U of M, plus he was a big local name before that. You will hard pressed to find someone with bad reviews on him even before the WJC. I am a Spartan fan and could not shut up about the kid heading into the draft before he even played for U of M. He is a talent and was always a safe top 4 bet, but with the way he is developing he is even better offensively than even I thought he would be. Those tools were there, but he is getting to a I have no idea where his true ceiling is point.

Very jealous of the Jets, Minnesota and Pittsburgh should be kicking themselves. I thought he was the second best d-man entering the draft understood the guys wanting some of the bigger names that went in front of him, but the two picks right in front of him were just flat out wrong and they will look that way for a very long time.
What I'm amazed at is the teams that picked defensemen above him especially Pittsburgh, Minnesota and Toronto wtf were they thinking???????? Like Murray and Reinhart I get and Anaheim picking Lindholm I get too especially cause Tampa was going to take him at 10. But Reilly, Dumba and Pouliot I know it's early in their development but common Trouba is way ahead of all of them.

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01-17-2013, 09:40 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Bob Probert Owns You View Post
I'd say Nyquist, Kindl, and a 1st for Bogo.
Good God

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01-17-2013, 10:09 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
So one exceptional bounce back season to a guy with a ten year track record and a conn smythe, sure that is the example you want to go with?

I actually think Bogosian will continue on his track from last year, but that isn't what that would be like. You probably could have gone with Filppula, although surely Wings fans will fall back on his high 50 to 60 point pace he was on playing on a third line a couple years ago before injury.

It has to be Nyquist ++ for Jets fans to even consider it and even then some won't that is what I was wondering, found the value low myself.
Zetterberg is also 32, so yes i'm fine using that example. If I started a team from scratch, i'd rather have Bogosian than Zetterberg. Bogosian is criminally underrated around here, I fully believe he's going to be a top 10 defender in a few years.

Zetterberg is obviously the better player without a doubt and does have way more value, but Bogosian is 22, close to becoming a #1 d-man.

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01-17-2013, 10:15 PM
  #256
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I don't believe Winnipeg will deal a talented, young, established defenseman like Bogosian just because they have an 18 year old defenseman looking good in college.

And if they for some reason do choose to deal him, I really don't believe they'd be stupid enough to trade him for NHL-unproven, non blue-chip prospects.

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01-17-2013, 10:16 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
Zetterberg is also 32, so yes i'm fine using that example. If I started a team from scratch, i'd rather have Bogosian than Zetterberg. Bogosian is criminally underrated around here, I fully believe he's going to be a top 10 defender in a few years.

Zetterberg is obviously the better player without a doubt and does have way more value, but Bogosian is 22, close to becoming a #1 d-man.
That is a legtimate point. However I think Bogosian needs a few more years before he's a number 1 dman but he'll probably get there.

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01-17-2013, 10:17 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by ManByng View Post
Good God
Really? A top prospect, a first round defenseman pick, and an, at worst, mid-first round pick?

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01-17-2013, 10:32 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Bob Probert Owns You View Post
Really? A top prospect, a first round defenseman pick, and an, at worst, mid-first round pick?
That the best one can say about Kindl is that he was picked in the first round speaks much of just how well he's doing nowadays.

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01-17-2013, 10:36 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Bob Probert Owns You View Post
Really? A top prospect, a first round defenseman pick, and an, at worst, mid-first round pick?
1. Nyquist is a good prospect. He's not a blue-chip prospect.
2. Kindl's draft position has little bearing on his current value. Or can Isles fans call Thomas Hickey's value a "4th overall"?
3. There are no guarantees on draft position, especially if the Wings were to gain a top-pairing defenseman in a deal like this.

Bogosian is 22, 6'3", strong as an ox, played 23 minutes a game last year, led his team in SHTOI, and scored 30 points in 65 games.

The Jets are not idiots, and so have no reason to give the Wings a young, talented, all-around top pairing defenseman for a mediocre defenseman and a handful of magic beans.

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01-17-2013, 10:36 PM
  #261
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@ Bob Probert Owns You...i was having some fun....i got the same thing...( Good God)...when i suggested Nyqvist, Oulette and a #1 for Bogo. it's a lot but i guess some feel it's too much?

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01-17-2013, 11:09 PM
  #262
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I just don't think the Wings have enough high value young pieces for a realistic offer at a Bogosian or Kane. Most of these offers are worthy of an immediate knee-jerk "no"... - as in, they're not even close.

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01-18-2013, 12:00 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
Zetterberg is also 32, so yes i'm fine using that example. If I started a team from scratch, i'd rather have Bogosian than Zetterberg. Bogosian is criminally underrated around here, I fully believe he's going to be a top 10 defender in a few years.

Zetterberg is obviously the better player without a doubt and does have way more value, but Bogosian is 22, close to becoming a #1 d-man.
Thank you.


As a Bruins fan who lives in Winnipeg and watched most of the Jets games last year, I think Bogosian may be the most underrated player in the league. IMO, he was better than both Buff and Enstrom last year, and he's 22. Kid is a stud. I'd give up a lot to have him on the Bruins. Hamilton plus Marchand, plus something like Knight / Spooner.

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01-18-2013, 12:02 AM
  #264
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Nyquist + Quincey + Sheahan or Ferraro

is probably what it would cost.

I like Nyquist, but he's probably the most overrated Red Wings prospect right now. He'll be a valuable top 6er though.

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01-18-2013, 12:16 AM
  #265
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I've said it before I'll say it again, people should have went after him last year like I wanted my teams to. At this point forget about it.

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01-18-2013, 12:48 AM
  #266
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I'm going to try to explain why the Jets probably aren't shopping Bogosian. First is we actually need him, behind Enstrom and Byfuglien there's some pretty mediocre talent. Bogosian averaged 23:18 TOI/G last year(35th in the league) and was right behind Enstrom, Byfuglien, and Lidstrom. He has never shown signs of physical or mental fatigue even playing up to 29 minutes when we had injuries. The guy gets double shifted all the time with new linemates. He also had a rotating partner, sharing pretty equally with Oduya, Stuart, and Hainsey last year. The guy simply brought up the play with whoever he was paired with.

A lot of Jets fans think he is the glue of our D. We also need to improve on D, not regress. We were at the bottom of the league in goals against. Getting rid of Bogosian would only make that worse. Yes we have Trouba, Redmond, and Postma (all somewhat offensive RHD) but the first could be a couple years away, and the latter two may not be NHL material.

IMO he will be the Jets best overall D this season or next.

Between his fitness level and potential, I don't see the Jets selling him for anything less than an overpayment.

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01-18-2013, 12:56 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
IMO he will be the Jets best overall D this season or next.
As long as Enstrom is a Jet, neither Bogosian, nor any other defenceman will be the best on the team. Enstrom has that one locked up.

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01-18-2013, 12:58 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
One of the Wings more plugged in media guys Art Regner posted a video blog on Fox Sports Detroit that hints the Wings are zeroing in on a long-time target.

http://www.foxsportsdetroit.com/01/1...07&feedID=3701

Ken Holland and Wings brass has never hid their desires for him, what is surprising to me at least is the package he believes will accomplish this.

Zach Bogosian

Gustav Nyquist

As much as Wings fans like Nyquist I would think they would have to do this. Of course it would make sense since they have seven d-man and would waive one assuming Bogosian is good to go with his wrist to send one back the other way, but we will see.

Would rather offer a package of Tatar, one of Kindl/White/Quincey and Pulkkinen/Andersson but just have a feeling Regner is off on the package just as I might be. Regner even hints they are trying for the real unlikely homerun on somehow trying to get Kane as well. Was surprised to hear it and expect Jets fans not to like it, but Regner is pretty well connected with Detroit brass and there is quite a history of chasing Bogosian in the rumor mills around Detroit. Nyquist would offer a dynamic forward to Winnipeg who is ready for a top 6 NHL role with them in my opinion.

Thoughts? What would the Jets really want from the Wings to make this trade?
No package built from any combination of 2 or 3 of these players would be nearly enough.

Keep in mind, Bogo is a big, physical, proven, youthful player with fantastic pedigree who plays the position of greatest current scarcity.

White's a pending UFA. Quincey is a gigantic downgrade and older. Nyquist and Tatar are small forwards who haven't demonstrated the ability to do much of anything in the NHL. And Kindl, like Quincey, is worse and older.

You can't acquire a player like Bogosian for a collection of smallish "maybes" and older, worse players.

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01-18-2013, 12:59 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Canadian Airlines View Post
As long as Enstrom is a Jet, neither Bogosian, nor any other defenceman will be the best on the team. Enstrom has that one locked up.
I disagree, and I love Toby.
Bogosian is big, physical, and had Enstrom's skill level. Bogosian is a beast.

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01-18-2013, 01:06 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by WILDhockeyfan View Post
Detroit is lacking the RH d-man department so it makes sense for them to want Bogosian. Unless Winnipeg thinks Olli Jokinen is going to solve their need for a no. 1 center, I wouldn't be surprised to see Filppula being a part of this deal.
In a vacuum, he's a more appropriate starting point than Nyquist, but, like White, he's a UFA in 4 months.

As others have said, Jurco is the only piece in the Red Wings organization that would give the Jets pause...but they'd still need to add a lot. It's hilariously easier to find an unproven forward with Jurco's skill level than it is to find a D like Bogosian at Bogosian's age.

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01-18-2013, 01:06 AM
  #271
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I love how this thread has evolved into Detroit fans picking at their prospects.

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01-18-2013, 01:18 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
Zetterberg is also 32, so yes i'm fine using that example. If I started a team from scratch, i'd rather have Bogosian than Zetterberg. Bogosian is criminally underrated around here, I fully believe he's going to be a top 10 defender in a few years.

Zetterberg is obviously the better player without a doubt and does have way more value, but Bogosian is 22, close to becoming a #1 d-man.
It was more the Bogosian for Nyquist is like Zetterberg for Gormley I was taking umbrage with. In no way is Bogosian close to an established pro player in that fashion.

Yes Bogosian has future attached to looking at it but that is based off one season, hence why I dropped Filppula to some. Not that Phoenix would ever consider that Filppula for Gormley swap either. However Zetterberg is very established and will play for a 6 million cap hit for the rest of his career. I just didn't see that as who I would have selected to make the point. His track record is much larger even without potential involved you know what you're getting. I like Bogo but what is to say right now he isn't the second coming of JayBo? A guy that people thought struggled a little and had some good seasons that people kept reading as a breakout on a bad team. I don't think he will be, but then again I thought JayBo would be more than he turned into.

I will grant Filppula probably isn't the greatest example either as those are hard to do. Filppula still has some potential to keep building, there isn't a perfect example on the Wings anyway in my opinion but Z is really not the guy to do it with.

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01-18-2013, 01:26 AM
  #273
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I love how this thread has evolved into Detroit fans picking at their prospects.
The fanbase can be pretty divided on it. There is an element of what I would call the anti-Holland crowd circling it. They don't bring them up fast enough is the common argument, but lately that has started into a they must not be that good with a lot of folks. Understand the point not that I agree with it, but there is an opinion that these guys aren't going to live up to the standards people have. They could be right but many of them have done well to this point and do have considerable upside. Not everyone will pan out to be sure, but not everyone needs to and I think a lot of people forgot while we heard about Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Grigorenko and Fishcer a bunch the tone from the organization and hockey talent evaluators wasn't far off what they are saying about this current group. Hard to see them hitting that big but Nyquist, Smith and Jarnkrok are legit guys and deserve their praise.

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01-18-2013, 01:29 AM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Canadian Airlines View Post
As long as Enstrom is a Jet, neither Bogosian, nor any other defenceman will be the best on the team. Enstrom has that one locked up.
"overall" I think Bogosian will be better. He will never have the offensive touch Enstrom has, and a few other things, but overall he will be better.

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01-18-2013, 03:13 AM
  #275
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Wonder what kind of value helm has to wpg?

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