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P.K. Subban Thread - Mk III - Unsigned Edition

View Poll Results: Who should break first
Bergevin 61 25.00%
Subban 183 75.00%
Voters: 244. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-18-2013, 12:28 AM
  #126
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Dave Stubbs ‏@Dave_Stubbs
Upon hearing of the "We want P.K.!" chant, @PKSubban1 sends a text: "Thank you! I miss you guys!" #Habs

Dave Stubbs ‏@Dave_Stubbs
From #Habs @PKSubban1: "I truly love the fans and I think we have a great connection. Fans recognize fans!" 1/2

Dave Stubbs ‏@Dave_Stubbs
From #Habs @PKSubban1: "I know what the fans want to see and that's heart & soul on every play. I think that's where we get along." 2/2

Dave Stubbs ‏@Dave_Stubbs
From #Habs @PKSubban1: "I love Montreal fans, they're a big reason why I love putting on the sweater every game."

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01-18-2013, 12:32 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
After Kaberle's 1st period, the price probably just went up by 500 K if Meehan is watching....
What you said makes me think so much about the scene in Taken when he negociates.... You arrogance offends me and for that the rate just went up 10%.

On a serious note I doubt it will take long a young player like PK needs and wants to play, I can't believe PK will be very happy when comes Saturday night and I'm also, the only scare we can have is that he won't be ready for a good week even if he signs tomorrow and if the season begins with a loss or two the pressure will turn so hard on Bergevin. PK is worth about 4 to 4.5M$ depending on the length, but I doubt Bergevin is willing to go over 3.5M$ and just throw away the space he created for this summer with the Gomez buyout. This available space can help the team so much that he must be very cautious on the way he uses it. adding a possible 5-6M$ foward might be what this team needs in order to be a serious contender and I'm pretty sure Bergevin is considering that while negociating with PKé

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01-18-2013, 12:36 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by bjac View Post
I don't think anyone actually wants Subban gone. They would have to be crazy to think that, he is our best defenseman.

With that said though, I don't think any one player should be privelidged over the rest, except if they are a franchise player. As of right now, Subban is not. He is a #1 Defenseman and might have the potential to be alot better, but he isn't good enough at this point to be the exception to the rule. Give him a year or two and maybe he becomes the exception. That is all MB is saying because in that scenario PK would cash in big.

You complain that the Habs need to get their office in order. Well taking this stance with the franchise salary structure is a good start. They ARE NOT going to lose him over this negotiation unless its by their own choice. I state above that that would be a stupid decision and have faith that MB wouldn't do that.
How is he privileged over the rest of the players? He's negotiating a contract. He doesn't have one right now. You can't pay Prust that type of money and then take a stand with the salary structure when it comes to your blue chip #1 dman, I'm sorry. He's the #1 dman on the team and has been so for 2 years. Why should he take a stupid 2 year bridge contract? He's far ahead of both Price and Patches when they signed those contracts. Not even in the same ball park.

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01-18-2013, 12:53 AM
  #129
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Was just thinking how perhaps what's going on here is that Pacioretty got a long term deal, yet they are from the same draft class and Subban has proven more. Isn't what Subban is asking for is the exact same deal Pacioretty just signed? (6 years, 4.5 per?)

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01-18-2013, 12:55 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Was just thinking how perhaps what's going on here is that Pacioretty got a long term deal, yet they are from the same draft class and Subban has proven more. Isn't what Subban is asking for is the exact same deal Pacioretty just signed? (6 years, 4.5 per?)
It's all speculation.

If that was what he was asking though (and I doubt it is) we'd have accepted in a heartbeat. I don't see how we wouldn't be thrilled with that.

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01-18-2013, 01:10 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
How is he privileged over the rest of the players? He's negotiating a contract. He doesn't have one right now. You can't pay Prust that type of money and then take a stand with the salary structure when it comes to your blue chip #1 dman, I'm sorry. He's the #1 dman on the team and has been so for 2 years. Why should he take a stupid 2 year bridge contract? He's far ahead of both Price and Patches when they signed those contracts. Not even in the same ball park.
I have no issue with Subban making more than Prust. I never said anything like that.

Also, as I said before, Prust was a UFA while Subban is an RFA. I'm not going to go into it, but there is a huge difference in contract negotiations between those two groups. UFAs are almost always overpayed because teams have to compete for them. That is why Prusts contract is what it is.

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01-18-2013, 01:11 AM
  #132
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With a cap of 64.3M$ next year and a cap hit of 63.5M$ this year we just don't have much room to maneuver. With Gomez off the chart we will have 55.9M$.

But the next big contract to negotiate will be Desharnais who's looking at a minimum 4M$ a year so that leaves us at of 59M$.


Bergevin can also buy out Kaberle this summer but buying out a player with 1 year left to his contract is not such a good idea since you'll still have some of his salary on the cap. 1.25M$ out of 4.0M$

http://www.capgeek.com/buyout-calcul...06&buyout_d=15

With the Kaberle buyout the mass would be around 56.25M$ in 2013-14

To that we have to add 2.25M$ from the Pacioretty contract that will be active next season. So 58.50M$

If Subban is asking for 6-7M$, he's already busting the cap, if he's asking for 5M$ that leaves no room on the mass for next year and no UFA signings whatsoever and no trades unless we trade higher paid players for lower paid players.

If we can trade René Bourque we would be in an ok but not good situation, but we would need someone to fill his space on the left wing.

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01-18-2013, 01:13 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Tells a lot about someone's character when they holdout after a lockout.

Now I see hes requesting a trade? Seriously? You have no arby rights and no right whatsoever to request a trade.

Del Zotto got 2 years 2.5 per from NYR. PK doesn't deserve more than that. (Years wise, you wanna see hes worth 3 mill, maybe 3.2? fine) This is the 2nd contract. He doesn't deserve to get more. He has no leverage to get more.

Make him sit. Make him sit the entire season, its going to hurt him, and his future value to do so. Hes probably bluffing.
He's requesting a trade? I haven't heard that do you have a source?

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Old
01-18-2013, 01:45 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Lizardking89 View Post
He's requesting a trade? I haven't heard that do you have a source?
I'm reading a lot of things on here that should have a source. A lot of them are about PK wanting more money, and when last I read, it was reported that Bergevin and Meehan agreed on money but not term.

People need to remember that it's Meehan negociating on behalf of Subban, and he's well-known to be a hardass and get the most out of GMs for his clients on the regular. He got Markov $17.25M over 3 years while injured long term, that's saying something.

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01-18-2013, 01:51 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Dekar View Post
I'm reading a lot of things on here that should have a source. A lot of them are about PK wanting more money, and when last I read, it was reported that Bergevin and Meehan agreed on money but not term.

People need to remember that it's Meehan negociating on behalf of Subban, and he's well-known to be a hardass and get the most out of GMs for his clients on the regular. He got Markov $17.25M over 3 years while injured long term, that's saying something.
Don Meehan is the Scott Boras of hockey. Most of clients hit un restricted free agency. He is a hardass that is always about making the most money no matter who it is.

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Old
01-18-2013, 03:04 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
How is he privileged over the rest of the players? He's negotiating a contract. He doesn't have one right now. You can't pay Prust that type of money and then take a stand with the salary structure when it comes to your blue chip #1 dman, I'm sorry. He's the #1 dman on the team and has been so for 2 years. Why should he take a stupid 2 year bridge contract? He's far ahead of both Price and Patches when they signed those contracts. Not even in the same ball park.
Clearly the whole point of the lockout went right over your head. Bergevin is obviously not interested in handing out long term contracts to unproven commodities. Subban has been quite good for a season and a half but Bergevin does not seem comfortable locking him up for 6+ years yet and wants to see his game develop for another 2 years. It happened to Price and it happened to Pacioretty, same situation no matter how sure you are about him.

I for one am all in favour of this cautious approach because it only protects us going forward. Prust has been in the NHL for going on 6 years now and he is 28 years old, it's not comparable.


Last edited by OneSharpMarble: 01-18-2013 at 03:17 AM.
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Old
01-18-2013, 04:58 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
With a cap of 64.3M$ next year and a cap hit of 63.5M$ this year we just don't have much room to maneuver. With Gomez off the chart we will have 55.9M$.

But the next big contract to negotiate will be Desharnais who's looking at a minimum 4M$ a year so that leaves us at of 59M$.


Bergevin can also buy out Kaberle this summer but buying out a player with 1 year left to his contract is not such a good idea since you'll still have some of his salary on the cap. 1.25M$ out of 4.0M$

http://www.capgeek.com/buyout-calcul...06&buyout_d=15

With the Kaberle buyout the mass would be around 56.25M$ in 2013-14

To that we have to add 2.25M$ from the Pacioretty contract that will be active next season. So 58.50M$

If Subban is asking for 6-7M$, he's already busting the cap, if he's asking for 5M$ that leaves no room on the mass for next year and no UFA signings whatsoever and no trades unless we trade higher paid players for lower paid players.

If we can trade René Bourque we would be in an ok but not good situation, but we would need someone to fill his space on the left wing.
David Desharnais can sign a two-year bridge contract @ 3.0 million per, he hasn't proven as much as Subban.

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Old
01-18-2013, 06:58 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
David Desharnais can sign a two-year bridge contract @ 3.0 million per, he hasn't proven as much as Subban.
If Desharnais has a similar season this year, then yes he will have.

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01-18-2013, 07:04 AM
  #139
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Im about to sleep. PK better be signed when I wake up.

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Old
01-18-2013, 07:28 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
It is funny to me how you pump up Kaberle but down Subban. Do you still miss Pierre?
It was just ridiculous to bring up Kaberle as an argument in the first place because he does look in good shape this year and played well last night. We have some real bozos on here.

PK is still better though and I hope Bergevin can sign him to a contract compatible with the future success of the team that fits within the cap constraints of the next couple of years which are very tight. This is why I'm fed up of all the posts about giving PK "what he wants". For example, if the Habs want to keep Galchenyuk up for the year, the current cap space would only allow paying PK about 4 mill a year or something like that. PK and his agent have to realize that Bergevin must consider such cap issues in his offers. If PK really want to be a Habs for life he can certainly come up with some form of agreement, even if this means signing for two years at less money now and more/longer later. If PK will not budge from the 6 year / 6 million deal he is apparently after he'll have to suck it up and wait for an offer sheet. There's no way Bergevin changes his long term plan only to accomodate Subban's arguably somewhat early superstar demands.

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01-18-2013, 07:29 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Tells a lot about someone's character when they holdout after a lockout.

Now I see hes requesting a trade? Seriously? You have no arby rights and no right whatsoever to request a trade.
Where are you seeing this. Show us, so we can see as well.

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01-18-2013, 07:33 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
It was just ridiculous to bring up Kaberle as an argument in the first place because he does look in good shape this year and played well last night. We have some real bozos on here.

PK is still better though and I hope Bergevin can sign him to a contract compatible with the future success of the team that fits within the cap constraints of the next couple of years which are very tight. This is why I'm fed up of all the posts about giving PK "what he wants". For example, if the Habs want to keep Galchenyuk up for the year, the current cap space would only allow paying PK about 4 mill a year or something like that. PK and his agent have to realize that Bergevin must consider such cap issues in his offers. If PK really want to be a Habs for life he can certainly come up with some form of agreement, even if this means signing for two years at less money now and more/longer later. If PK will not budge from the 6 year / 6 million deal he is apparently after he'll have to suck it up and wait for an offer sheet. There's no way Bergevin changes his long term plan only to accomodate Subban's arguably somewhat early superstar demands.
Additionally, if Bergevin needs to get rid of other players to fit Subban in it can make the team weaker. The issue with superstars is that they are unhappy on weak teams but yet want to suck up most of the cash for so many years that the owners can't make the team better.

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01-18-2013, 07:49 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
It was just ridiculous to bring up Kaberle as an argument in the first place because he does look in good shape this year and played well last night. We have some real bozos on here.

PK is still better though and I hope Bergevin can sign him to a contract compatible with the future success of the team that fits within the cap constraints of the next couple of years which are very tight. This is why I'm fed up of all the posts about giving PK "what he wants". For example, if the Habs want to keep Galchenyuk up for the year, the current cap space would only allow paying PK about 4 mill a year or something like that. PK and his agent have to realize that Bergevin must consider such cap issues in his offers. If PK really want to be a Habs for life he can certainly come up with some form of agreement, even if this means signing for two years at less money now and more/longer later. If PK will not budge from the 6 year / 6 million deal he is apparently after he'll have to suck it up and wait for an offer sheet. There's no way Bergevin changes his long term plan only to accomodate Subban's arguably somewhat early superstar demands.
You're analyzing a player's game in a scrimmage and I'm the bozo? All this cap space talk yet there was no issue overpaying Prust. We have an overpaid Kaberle on the squad and there are other players who are overpaid and not part of the future. But because of that PK should lower his value? Ridiculous. You get paid what you are owed. If Bergevin feels PK is not worth the asking price then that's fine. But acting like PK should care about cap space is ridiculous. If Subban does get an offer sheet, I hope you'll be happy with the late 1st, 2nd and 3rd we get back in return.

Completely ridiculous that some are willing to let PK leave because Bourque, Kaberle, etc are taking up too much cap space.

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01-18-2013, 07:52 AM
  #144
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Additionally, if Bergevin needs to get rid of other players to fit Subban in it can make the team weaker. The issue with superstars is that they are unhappy on weak teams but yet want to suck up most of the cash for so many years that the owners can't make the team better.
Ridiculous post. If Subban signs, who do you think will get moved? You really think good players willl be moved to make room for him?

Superstars want to get paid what they are worth. Why is this so hard to understand? Just because you want a fair salary does not mean you're not a team player.

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01-18-2013, 07:57 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
It was just ridiculous to bring up Kaberle as an argument in the first place because he does look in good shape this year and played well last night. We have some real bozos on here.

PK is still better though and I hope Bergevin can sign him to a contract compatible with the future success of the team that fits within the cap constraints of the next couple of years which are very tight. This is why I'm fed up of all the posts about giving PK "what he wants". For example, if the Habs want to keep Galchenyuk up for the year, the current cap space would only allow paying PK about 4 mill a year or something like that. PK and his agent have to realize that Bergevin must consider such cap issues in his offers. If PK really want to be a Habs for life he can certainly come up with some form of agreement, even if this means signing for two years at less money now and more/longer later. If PK will not budge from the 6 year / 6 million deal he is apparently after he'll have to suck it up and wait for an offer sheet. There's no way Bergevin changes his long term plan only to accomodate Subban's arguably somewhat early superstar demands.
Is there a source for that dollar figure?

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01-18-2013, 08:00 AM
  #146
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You're analyzing a player's game in a scrimmage and I'm the bozo? All this cap space talk yet there was no issue overpaying Prust. We have an overpaid Kaberle on the squad and there are other players who are overpaid and not part of the future. But because of that PK should lower his value? Ridiculous. You get paid what you are owed. If Bergevin feels PK is not worth the asking price then that's fine. But acting like PK should care about cap space is ridiculous. If Subban does get an offer sheet, I hope you'll be happy with the late 1st, 2nd and 3rd we get back in return.

Completely ridiculous that some are willing to let PK leave because Bourque, Kaberle, etc are taking up too much cap space.
Firstly. I'm not basing the Kaberle argument only on the scrimmage last night. Many of his teammates said he was in great shape and so did the coach. If that's not enough for you so be it.

Secondly, Prust has a cap it of 2.5 million for 4 years. Perhaps thats a little overpaid but the guy was a UFA. Big difference between that and what PK is apparently asking for as an RFA.

Thirdly I don't agree with the "you get paid what you are owed" argument. There's two sides to a deal. If your demands can't be met you can walk. It's simple. If you really want to stay, like PK claims, you can also lower your demands and come up with a deal. That's PK's choice.

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01-18-2013, 08:03 AM
  #147
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Is there a source for that dollar figure?
Not a good source, this is what's been tweeted around by many sport reporters. Apparently looking at Tyler Myers (5.5 ish long term). Anyway, PK is certainly not after a 2 year, 4 million per year deal or he would be signed already.

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01-18-2013, 08:07 AM
  #148
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Ridiculous post. If Subban signs, who do you think will get moved? You really think good players willl be moved to make room for him?

Superstars want to get paid what they are worth. Why is this so hard to understand? Just because you want a fair salary does not mean you're not a team player.
You already established PK Subban is a superstar. That's the source of our disagreement I guess. I'm thinking that PK has the potential of being a superstar but has a few issues to iron out, some personal, some on the ice, before he signs a superstar deal. Is that hard to understand?

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01-18-2013, 08:09 AM
  #149
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Is there a source for that dollar figure?
Yesterday on Sportsnet they had the habs preview, Kipper and MacLean both said that PK wants 6mill per on a long term deal and that the habs are looking for him to accept a bridge contract like Del Zotto ..

They agreed that one of the two sides will have to budge since they are so far apart and that in many ways it will depend on how the team starts the season.

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01-18-2013, 08:13 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Ridiculous post. If Subban signs, who do you think will get moved? You really think good players willl be moved to make room for him?

Superstars want to get paid what they are worth. Why is this so hard to understand? Just because you want a fair salary does not mean you're not a team player.
If you need to clear a lot of cap space then you have to either trade large bad contracts (which obviously are hard to get rid of), trade good players with big contracts (which you can trade for prospects) or trade several good young players with affordable contracts you can then replace with AHLers. And please stop being so agressive is your responses, it's not necessary.

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