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Senators Prospect Update 2012-2013 Part II

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Old
01-17-2013, 10:21 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
Can be. If one of them becomes a 70+ point player, which 2 could manage to become, then that's top-line potential and on par/better with the 2nd best defender on the team.
I don't see any of them being 70 point players.

Cowen as the #2 could get PP alongside Karlsson too. 40 points + elite shutdown ability > 50-60 point forwards

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01-17-2013, 10:25 PM
  #27
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Edit: Wrong thread.

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01-17-2013, 10:27 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
I don't see any of them being 70 point players.

Cowen as the #2 could get PP alongside Karlsson too. 40 points + elite shutdown ability > 50-60 point forwards
Lol, that's cause you're being biased. If you don't see Turris, Silfverberg or Zibanejad having the potential to hit 70 yet expect that much from Cowen(Whose projection I agree with) then you're biased. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on Zibanejad cause everyone going crazy that a 19 year old isn't able to produce so far in the AHL especially when the whole team couldn't as well.

Silfverberg is not being placed on the first line winger position because his name looks nice on paper there but because they want him to get the feel and transition to a position that could soon be permanently his. Turris was on pace for about 50 points last year while playing a solid 2 way game along side Alfredsson and ???? non-stop on LW and not attending training camp. He's only 23 and you don't think he has the potential to hit 70?

Alright.

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01-17-2013, 10:31 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
Lol, that's cause you're being biased. If you don't see Turris, Silfverberg or Zibanejad having the potential to hit 70 yet expect that much from Cowen(Whose projection I agree with) then you're biased. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on Zibanejad cause everyone going crazy that a 19 year old isn't able to produce so far in the AHL especially when the whole team couldn't as well.

Turris was on pace for about 50 points last year while playing a solid 2 way game along side Alfredsson and ???? non-stop on LW and not attending training camp. He's only 23 and you don't think he has the potential to hit 70?

Alright.
Not being biased.

Cowen --> 30-40 points while those 3 --> 50-60 points I think is a fair projection.

In that case, Cowen is still > them.


Turris doesn't have 70 point potential. His puck handling, vision and top end speed aren't elite for this to happen. I see him topping out at 25-35-60.

Silf and Zib likely 30-30.

Cowen could top out at 15-25-40 imo. Max offensive potential.

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01-17-2013, 10:41 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Not being biased.

Cowen --> 30-40 points while those 3 --> 50-60 points I think is a fair projection.

In that case, Cowen is still > them.


Turris doesn't have 70 point potential. His puck handling, vision and top end speed aren't elite for this to happen. I see him topping out at 25-35-60.

Silf and Zib likely 30-30.

Cowen could top out at 15-25-40 imo. Max offensive potential.
Turris skating is just fine I don't know what the hell you're talking about. It's one of his strengths. I've seen the guy fly north south, it's actually what makes him strong defensively. His IQ, and vision are just fine. He wasn't coveted as a possible first overall pick if his skating and vision were average.

Silfver has more than 60 point potential.

You say Cowen's max offensive potential and don't think Turris' max offensive potential is 70?

Alright.

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Old
01-17-2013, 10:50 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
Turris skating is just fine I don't know what the hell you're talking about. It's one of his strengths. I've seen the guy fly north south, it's actually what makes him strong defensively. His IQ, and vision are just fine. He wasn't coveted as a possible first overall pick if his skating and vision were average.

Silfver has more than 60 point potential.

You say Cowen's max offensive potential and don't think Turris' max offensive potential is 70?

Alright.
Of course it's ''fine''. But it's not first line offensive player fine.

Puck handling, vision and skating. Something's gotta give here... needs an improvement that I don't see coming for him to hit 70.

He can skate, but he doesn't blow past people. He can handle the puck but dirty dangles aren't really there. His vision is OK but he's a sniper and his playmaking instincts aren't elite. Only his shot is 1st line caliber.

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01-17-2013, 10:51 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by 18Hossa View Post
Silfverberg, Zibanejad, Turris, Puempel, Noeson, Stone, Prince, Pageau, Da Costa, Petersson, and I'm sure there are more. That is 10 top 6 prospects right there. Now that I think about it, we should just take bpa this draft.
We do have some nice forward prospects, but our future forward group is weaker than our defense. Only sure bets are Silfverberg, Noesen, Zibanejad and Stone. Only can't miss top 6 forward out of that group (Turris isn't a prospect anymore) is Jakob. Zibanejad is a safe bet to be an NHL forward but has major question marks, I am very high on Stone, but he needs to improve his skating going forward, and Noesen is safe as well, but I see him more as a great 3rd liner than a top 6 scoring threat.

Guys like Puempel, Pageau, Petersson, Da Costa are longshots because of their style of play. For small, skilled guys like them it's often top 6 or nothing.

This is focusing mostly on the negatives; I think we're going to have a good group of forwards in the future, but I think if this team has any needs going forward its another top line scoring threat. Hopefully we take a long look at guys like Erne, Nichushkin and Shinkaruk, who should be available in our range.

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01-17-2013, 10:55 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Hale The Villain View Post
We do have some nice forward prospects, but our future forward group is weaker than our defense. Only sure bets are Silfverberg, Noesen, Zibanejad and Stone. Only can't miss top 6 forward out of that group (Turris isn't a prospect anymore) is Jakob. Zibanejad is a safe bet to be an NHL forward but has major question marks, I am very high on Stone, but he needs to improve his skating going forward, and Noesen is safe as well, but I see him more as a great 3rd liner than a top 6 scoring threat.

Guys like Puempel, Pageau, Petersson, Da Costa are longshots because of their style of play. For small, skilled guys like them it's often top 6 or nothing.

This is focusing mostly on the negatives; I think we're going to have a good group of forwards in the future, but I think if this team has any needs going forward its another top line scoring threat. Hopefully we take a long look at guys like Erne, Nichushkin and Shinkaruk, who should be available in our range.
this

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01-17-2013, 11:35 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Of course it's ''fine''. But it's not first line offensive player fine.

Puck handling, vision and skating. Something's gotta give here... needs an improvement that I don't see coming for him to hit 70.

He can skate, but he doesn't blow past people. He can handle the puck but dirty dangles aren't really there. His vision is OK but he's a sniper and his playmaking instincts aren't elite. Only his shot is 1st line caliber.
Wow, this proves to me you have never watched Turris properly play if you don't consider his vision to be elite.

Alfredsson didn't have elite puck-handling or the highest skating but was a capable 100 point scorer. Turris' vision, shooting, playmaking, defensive awareness, puck control IQ, offensive prowness and work ethic make him a very good player. Also, he's 23 for the love of God. He can improve, looooooool.

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01-18-2013, 12:10 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
Wow, this proves to me you have never watched Turris properly play if you don't consider his vision to be elite.

Alfredsson didn't have elite puck-handling or the highest skating but was a capable 100 point scorer. Turris' vision, shooting, playmaking, defensive awareness, puck control IQ, offensive prowness and work ethic make him a very good player. Also, he's 23 for the love of God. He can improve, looooooool.
Of course he's a good player, but his skills aren't elite.

Alfie is/was a better puck handler with better vision and hockey sense. Alfie was truly one of the very best two-way players in the game and could dictate the pace of the game almost at will.

Turris doesn't have his skill level or hockey sense. Sorry.

Also, 100 point scorer in 2005-06, scoring has gone way down since then. If this was 2005-06, then I would agree about 70 points for Turris.

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01-18-2013, 12:48 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Of course he's a good player, but his skills aren't elite.

Alfie is/was a better puck handler with better vision and hockey sense. Alfie was truly one of the very best two-way players in the game and could dictate the pace of the game almost at will.

Turris doesn't have his skill level or hockey sense. Sorry.

Also, 100 point scorer in 2005-06, scoring has gone way down since then. If this was 2005-06, then I would agree about 70 points for Turris.
It's hard to imagine that a 22 year old Turris scores on pace of about 50 points in a year where he isn't even familiar with his linemates or even physically fit and you think his potential is already achieved or just 10 more points. Think about it.

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01-18-2013, 12:56 AM
  #37
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If you're saying a guy can hit 60 points, then he's more than capable of putting up 70. Anyone who's played hockey knows that your point totals can be dependent on luck and other circumstances. Points come and go.

Spezza might get in his way of ever accomplishing it, but Turris easily has the potential to eclipse 60-70 points one day.

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01-18-2013, 01:12 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by 'JESUS' Joe-Corvo View Post
If you're saying a guy can hit 60 points, then he's more than capable of putting up 70. Anyone who's played hockey knows that your point totals can be dependent on luck and other circumstances. Points come and go.

Spezza might get in his way of ever accomplishing it, but Turris easily has the potential to eclipse 60-70 points one day.
He doesn't have elite puck-handling though.

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01-18-2013, 06:55 AM
  #39
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Turris is not the new Spezza - carrying heavy expectations and getting trashed by some fans when they do not occur. He is no longer a prospect, and he will find his way. I'm quite happy to have him as our 2C. We also need to draft another top-end C to keep the pot boiling. DaCosta is not it. Smith, O'Bien, Regin are not elite, but extremely useful in the system. Be interesting to see who best player available is when we pick.

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01-18-2013, 07:27 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by 'JESUS' Joe-Corvo View Post
If you're saying a guy can hit 60 points, then he's more than capable of putting up 70. Anyone who's played hockey knows that your point totals can be dependent on luck and other circumstances. Points come and go.

Spezza might get in his way of ever accomplishing it, but Turris easily has the potential to eclipse 60-70 points one day.
If you follow hockey a bit you should know this. Tell someone here a guy can have a better season while scoring less points, some would think you're crazy.

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01-18-2013, 08:15 AM
  #41
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Don't forget, it's only a 48 game season this year....I say Turris could get maybe 40 points...

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01-18-2013, 08:27 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
No. Cowen > them.

3 most important players going forward = Karlsson, Cowen and Lehner
That's not necessarily true. Silfverberg, Turris and even Zibanejad (who I'm not a big fan of) have ceilings as high as, if not higher than, Cowen. I do believe that Karlsson and Lehner are two of our most important players though. Cowen less-so. He's a stud, don't get me wrong, but there are others that are just as talented.

Didn't see the rest of the discussion, but Silfverberg has done things that no one else in history has done in a men's league at the age of 21. He was the most dominant non-NHL player last year in the world. Again, at the age of 21. He stepped into the North American game and immediately was the best player on his team (in the AHL) -- nearly a point per game on a team that just didn't seem to score much. Silfverberg has immense offensive potential especially playing with a guy like Spezza...and everyone knows about his two way game.

Turris and Zibanejad have both shown flashes of brilliance too. It's funny that you project Cowen as a 40 point defenceman (because of Karlsson) but ignore who Silfverberg will be playing with.


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01-18-2013, 08:43 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by SonofAlfred View Post
Don't forget, it's only a 48 game season this year....I say Turris could get maybe 40 points...
Anywhere around 35 makes me happy with him individually.

Considering our D, we might not each of our 2nd liners pushing the 60 point mark, prorated.

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01-18-2013, 10:15 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
It's hard to imagine that a 22 year old Turris scores on pace of about 50 points in a year where he isn't even familiar with his linemates or even physically fit and you think his potential is already achieved or just 10 more points. Think about it.
Will he ever have a linemate as good as Alfredsson though? Even last year, Alfie was terrific.

22 years old isn't that far off the usual offensive peak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'JESUS' Joe-Corvo View Post
If you're saying a guy can hit 60 points, then he's more than capable of putting up 70. Anyone who's played hockey knows that your point totals can be dependent on luck and other circumstances. Points come and go.

Spezza might get in his way of ever accomplishing it, but Turris easily has the potential to eclipse 60-70 points one day.
You're projecting 60-70.

I'm projecting 50-60. I'm saying in those good, lucky years, he'll get 60ish points. In the ''bad'', unlucky years he'll get 50ish.

Maybe a broader more likely range is 45-65 points. If Turris ever gets more than 65, EVER, I'll be really surprised. If he gets 66, I'll be surprised.

Pleasantly of course, I just don't see the tools that some other first line centres have.




Also, to whoever said 40 points this year... come on. The guy wasn't even a point a game in the Finnish league. I know it's not the be all end all, but still

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01-18-2013, 10:19 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Will he ever have a linemate as good as Alfredsson though? Even last year, Alfie was terrific.
60 point wingers aren't that hard to come by. It's also worth noting that Alfredsson and Turris had good chemistry which helped both of their totals.

Quote:
You're projecting 60-70.

I'm projecting 50-60. I'm saying in those good, lucky years, he'll get 60ish points. In the ''bad'', unlucky years he'll get 50ish.

Maybe a broader more likely range is 45-65 points. If Turris ever gets more than 65, EVER, I'll be really surprised. If he gets 66, I'll be surprised.
Interesting. Turris was on pace to hit 50 points as a Sen despite missing training camp, and not playing the whole year with his teammates. On top of this he was 21 years old and playing in a completely new system. You think that he will never play better than he did last year? Last year was Turris' peak?

Interesting.

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01-18-2013, 11:10 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by 'JESUS' Joe-Corvo View Post
If you're saying a guy can hit 60 points, then he's more than capable of putting up 70. Anyone who's played hockey knows that your point totals can be dependent on luck and other circumstances. Points come and go.
Bah... he's no Datsyuk though so it won't work like that for Kyle




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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
Didn't see the rest of the discussion, but Silfverberg has done things that no one else in history has done in a men's league at the age of 21. He was the most dominant non-NHL player last year in the world. Again, at the age of 21. He stepped into the North American game and immediately was the best player on his team (in the AHL) -- nearly a point per game on a team that just didn't seem to score much. Silfverberg has immense offensive potential especially playing with a guy like Spezza...and everyone knows about his two way game.
Only 6 teams have scored more goals than the B-Sens so far... and they played more games.

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01-18-2013, 11:36 AM
  #47
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Only 6 teams have scored more goals than the B-Sens so far... and they played more games.
7 teams and two others have the same number of goals, but I was mistaken. I guess when I looked down the roster it just didn't seem like there were any real big producers. The scoring is well spread out.

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01-18-2013, 11:40 AM
  #48
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Turris will only score 40 if that 2nd line really clicks.

Tim Murray has said in the past that Turris could be 1st line c quality. Prob didn't mean a leave wide star but that's pretty exceptional. Doesn't mean if its not this year or never. Doesn't mean it's gonna happen either.

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01-18-2013, 11:43 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Will he ever have a linemate as good as Alfredsson though? Even last year, Alfie was terrific.

.

Maybe a broader more likely range is 45-65 points. If Turris ever gets more than 65, EVER, I'll be really surprised. If he gets 66, I'll be surprised.

still
Turris scores an empty netter to bring himself to 66 points in his last game and just like that MAK acts like he just saw a pig fly. 65 was predictable, but 66...**** is crazy.

And I'm on your side on this tbh, or at least lean that way. But point variance depends on so many factors, scoring a certain amount in one season doesn't say much about you. Unless maybe it was elite and people saw it coming...ahem, Erik karlsson.

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01-18-2013, 12:19 PM
  #50
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60 point wingers aren't that hard to come by. It's also worth noting that Alfredsson and Turris had good chemistry which helped both of their totals.
60 point wingers don't grow on trees. There was probably about 30 guys last year that accomplished that so on average 1 per team. Michalek/Alfredsson had 60/59 so that's one just making the cut and the other missing it.

Anyway on the whole Turris thing ; I do see more potential from him but we really need to temper our expectations for a guy that hasn't even cracked the 30 point barrier. He's defensively responsible and a 2nd line player, will be extremely tough to break 70. If it happens I will jump for joy.

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