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P.K. Subban Thread - Mk III - Unsigned Edition

View Poll Results: Who should break first
Bergevin 61 25.00%
Subban 183 75.00%
Voters: 244. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-18-2013, 11:19 AM
  #251
NotProkofievian
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Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
Good question - personally I wouldn't. Just curious, is there a list of past RFA's that have held out?
Why wouldn't you?

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01-18-2013, 11:19 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
If he "held out", he would be out of a job rather quickly.

They would just find the next 24 year old punk to do what he does.
That's my point...it's easy when you're a fan to tell Subban he should just accept whatever deal he gets

But if situations were reversed...I'm not convinced anyone here would do differently.

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01-18-2013, 11:21 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
Good question - personally I wouldn't. Just curious, is there a list of past RFA's that have held out?
Forget past...there's a current one (Jaime Benn, Ryan O'Reilly, Dmitri Kulikov)

But just to answer your question, I seem to recall vaguely José Thédore holding out when he was RFA...that memory is fuzzy though

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01-18-2013, 11:23 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Why wouldn't you?
Exactly lol...who would pass up the opportunity to make MORE money, if they could?

The self-righteousness in this thread is so thick you could cut it with a knife

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01-18-2013, 11:25 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
The self-righteousness in this thread is so thick you could cut it with a knife
I'm not even mad anymore. I'm just...disappointed.

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01-18-2013, 11:26 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Easy to say when you're a fan....

But be honest, and put yourself in his shoes for a second...would you REALLY think that's fair?
Yes, because I'm part of a TEAM. No one is bigger than the team.

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01-18-2013, 11:27 AM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Forget past...there's a current one (Jaime Benn, Ryan O'Reilly, Dmitri Kulikov)

But just to answer your question, I seem to recall vaguely José Thédore holding out when he was RFA...that memory is fuzzy though
Yep and it was Don Meahan and the habs management finally caved in and gave him a ludicrous contract after his MVP thinking that he the goaltender position was set for years. After that big contract he sucked hard and had to be given up for free since his salary was way too much and on too many years. Luckily we found Colorado that took his contract away.

Moral of the story : The habs have poor luck to longterm contract and this is one of the main reason why I don't want to re-sign Subban at premium money.

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01-18-2013, 11:28 AM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Why wouldn't you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Exactly lol...who would pass up the opportunity to make MORE money, if they could?

The self-righteousness in this thread is so thick you could cut it with a knife
Heh, well the reasons for me personally might be different than they are for PK, the question was directed at me directly.

The reason for me is a simple one though because I need to put food on my table and a roof over my head - kind of boring eh? lol

PK is entitled to hold out, I'm not saying he is not entitled. But ultimately the choice is his if he plays or not, the habs are just exercising their leverage in this situation. If PK doesn't play he doesn't get paid, so he is giving up some salary. He obviously thinks he can get more, it makes sense.

But if playing hockey at this point in time meant more to him than not playing he would be playing. We don't know the details of the contract that he was offered or if he was even offered one - i was quickly shut down a few times for 'assuming' that lol.

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01-18-2013, 11:29 AM
  #259
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Originally Posted by capnk View Post
Yes, because I'm part of a TEAM. No one is bigger than the team.
I don't think he feels he's bigger than the team. He simply wants to be compensated what he feels is fair. I would love nothing more than for Subban to sign right now, but I can't hold it against him if he doesn't. It's business.

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01-18-2013, 11:29 AM
  #260
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Yes, because I'm part of a TEAM. No one is bigger than the team.
So he shouldn't seek what he believes to be fair value for his services and impact to said team, because he's a member of that team?

...did you read what you wrote and think about it? Because it sounds like you didn't do that.

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01-18-2013, 11:30 AM
  #261
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Yes, because I'm part of a TEAM. No one is bigger than the team.
What makes you think he considers himself bigger than the team?

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01-18-2013, 11:31 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by capnk View Post
Yes, because I'm part of a TEAM. No one is bigger than the team.
Oh give me a break lol

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01-18-2013, 11:32 AM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
So he shouldn't seek what he believes to be fair value for his services and impact to said team, because he's a member of that team?

...did you read what you wrote and think about it? Because it sounds like you didn't do that.
He can do whatever he wants but the Habs also have the right to offer him the same term as price and pacioretty as they apply their same policies to rfa on their 2nd contract.

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01-18-2013, 11:33 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
Yep and it was Don Meahan and the habs management finally caved in and gave him a ludicrous contract after his MVP thinking that he the goaltender position was set for years. After that big contract he sucked hard and had to be given up for free since his salary was way too much and on too many years. Luckily we found Colorado that took his contract away.

Moral of the story : The habs have poor luck to longterm contract and this is one of the main reason why I don't want to re-sign Subban at premium money.
Theodore signed a 3 year deal, for a lot of money but the length wasn't outrages.

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01-18-2013, 11:34 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
Heh, well the reasons for me personally might be different than they are for PK, the question was directed at me directly.

The reason for me is a simple one though because I need to put food on my table and a roof over my head - kind of boring eh? lol
Yeah, but the question was framed in a way that implied you COULD hold out. Meaning, you can't invoke reasons for why you couldn't hold out and still answer the question.

So, here's the question: "you CAN hold out for more money, you said you wouldn't. Why?"

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01-18-2013, 11:34 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
Yep and it was Don Meahan and the habs management finally caved in and gave him a ludicrous contract after his MVP thinking that he the goaltender position was set for years. After that big contract he sucked hard and had to be given up for free since his salary was way too much and on too many years. Luckily we found Colorado that took his contract away.

Moral of the story : The habs have poor luck to longterm contract and this is one of the main reason why I don't want to re-sign Subban at premium money.
Might as well trade Alex Galchenyuk, Jarred Tinordi immediately then...

Habs have no luck with long term contracts...they'll be up for some in 4-5 years, might as well get a jump on that, you can't mess with lady luck...she's never wrong

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01-18-2013, 11:34 AM
  #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Theodore signed a 3 year deal, for a lot of money but the length wasn't outrages.
The point remain that he was overpaid !

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01-18-2013, 11:35 AM
  #268
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Thing is, somebody needs to move. And as a fan, whether it's Bergevin or Subban, somebody needs to lose as clealry they are not in the same ballpark, or else there would be a deal in place. So who can afford to lose more? A player who in the end, at worst, will gain it all back with his next contract and if he's not happy could cash in the day of the UFA market? Or the GM who by giving a big contract will open the doors to everybody else in the future who will take Subban's contract as an exemple of what the "structure" is all about. Bergevin has a lot to lose here, much more than PK. And if PK is really about the team and winning, he would take the bridge instead of holding up. 'Cause his contract is not solely about him anymore. It's about the structure of the team, it's about the dressing room division about him or not, it's about the division with the fans and the organization. That's what it comes down to. And if people mention that everything else is not his business, well sorry. When you are paid that much, it's not solely about your little persona. And especially not in Montreal.

And for whoever will love to blame yesterday's crowd for a big contract ahead, it makes no sense either. People want PK. But if the Habs win 1 game in a row, they will forget who PK is. If Habs win, people won't mind. If Habs lose, people will mind. Yet, with or without the chant, if Habs would lose 1, 2, or 3 games in a row, Bergevin would have had the same type of pressure.

And frankly, for the sake of the organization, it should never come down to what type of start we have. Not good for the season, as 3 losses in a row might already be too mcuh, not good for the atmosphere between players, not good for the relation between PK and Bergevin who in the end, will clearly want out at 27 if he has the choice to.

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01-18-2013, 11:35 AM
  #269
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my last hope for Subban playing tomorrow, is if a deal gets done tonight, and even though MT might see him anyways because he wasn't at camp at all.

I have a feeling if it he isn't signed by the first game, that managment is going to at least start looking to move him.

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01-18-2013, 11:36 AM
  #270
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my last hope for Subban playing tomorrow, is if a deal gets done tonight, and even though MT might see him anyways because he wasn't at camp at all.

I have a feeling if it he isn't signed by the first game, that managment is going to at least start looking to move him.
Even if he signs today, I don't think he plays tomorrow and is going to have to work to get back into Therrien's lineup. Maybe 2-3 games missed

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01-18-2013, 11:37 AM
  #271
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Might as well trade Alex Galchenyuk, Jarred Tinordi immediately then...

Habs have no luck with long term contracts...they'll be up for some in 4-5 years, might as well get a jump on that, you can't mess with lady luck...she's never wrong
If they ask too much salaries as RFA for what they have accomplished sure... Hey I have nothing against long term contract but PK is still very green and does not deserves a significant raise.

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01-18-2013, 11:37 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Thing is, somebody needs to move. And as a fan, whether it's Bergevin or Subban, somebody needs to lose as clealry they are not in the same ballpark, or else there would be a deal in place. So who can afford to lose more? A player who in the end, at worst, will gain it all back with his next contract and if he's not happy could cash in the day of the UFA market? Or the GM who by giving a big contract will open the doors to everybody else in the future who will take Subban's contract as an exemple of what the "structure" is all about. Bergevin has a lot to lose here, much more than PK. And if PK is really about the team and winning, he would take the bridge instead of holding up. 'Cause his contract is not solely about him anymore. It's about the structure of the team, it's about the dressing room division about him or not, it's about the division with the fans and the organization. That's what it comes down to. And if people mention that everything else is not his business, well sorry. When you are paid that much, it's not solely about your little persona. And especially not in Montreal.

And for whoever will love to blame yesterday's crowd for a big contract ahead, it makes no sense either. People want PK. But if the Habs win 1 game in a row, they will forget who PK is. If Habs win, people won't mind. If Habs lose, people will mind. Yet, with or without the chant, if Habs would lose 1, 2, or 3 games in a row, Bergevin would have had the same type of pressure.

And frankly, for the sake of the organization, it should never come down to what type of start we have. Not good for the season, as 3 losses in a row might already be too mcuh, not good for the atmosphere between players, not good for the relation between PK and Bergevin who in the end, will clearly want out at 27 if he has the choice to.
Completely agreed...and someone will, likely BOTH sides. But right now, neither side feels they have to.

We've learned from the lockout that things don't get done unless both sides are up against it...I guess both sides think they have more cards to play.

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01-18-2013, 11:38 AM
  #273
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Even if he signs today, I don't think he plays tomorrow and is going to have to work to get back into Therrien's lineup. Maybe 2-3 games missed
That's entirely possible, but I'm not so sure that's what's gonna happen.

When a team trades for a player he's usually dressed the very next game. I don't see how this situation is any different.

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01-18-2013, 11:38 AM
  #274
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He can do whatever he wants but the Habs also have the right to offer him the same term as price and pacioretty as they apply their same policies to rfa on their 2nd contract.
This sort of reasoning came out during the lockout as well, and it made just as little sense then as it does now. The sides are negotiating. I'm sorry to tell you this, but MB is most likely not low-balling Subban and saying "take it or leave it." They are giving, and taking, and it will result in a stable point known as a minimax for MB, and a maximin for Subban.

What people here are suggesting is that Subban not engage in that process, and just take whatever MB gives him next. Which is dumb.

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01-18-2013, 11:39 AM
  #275
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That's entirely possible, but I'm not so sure that's what's gonna happen.

When a team trades for a player he's usually dressed the very next game. I don't see how this situation is any different.
Because he has already been playing, PK has not by missing camp, big difference

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