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P.K. Subban Thread - Mk III - Unsigned Edition

View Poll Results: Who should break first
Bergevin 61 25.00%
Subban 183 75.00%
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Old
01-18-2013, 10:39 AM
  #276
habs03
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Even if he signs today, I don't think he plays tomorrow and is going to have to work to get back into Therrien's lineup. Maybe 2-3 games missed
I don't think so, specially if you pair him with Gorges, a guy he played with last year. When guys get traded to other teams, they usually play the very next game.

But I can see MT sitting him for tomorrow's game if he signs, but doubt he misses more than that if signed today.

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01-18-2013, 10:40 AM
  #277
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If they ask too much salaries as RFA for what they have accomplished sure... Hey I have nothing against long term contract but PK is still very green and does not deserves a significant raise.
You cannot be serious.

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01-18-2013, 10:42 AM
  #278
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What people here are suggesting is that Subban not engage in that process, and just take whatever MB gives him next. Which is dumb.
I think it's more a case of people are tired of that process taking so long. They've had quite enough time before AND after the lockout to get a deal done and it hasn't yet.

It's not as if PK/Meehan and MB had no contact at all regarding this matter. They've been at it for a really long time.

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01-18-2013, 10:42 AM
  #279
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You cannot be serious.
I'm dead serious !
PK still has lot to learn and I would not cry if the management decide to move out and trade him (for a good return tough)

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01-18-2013, 10:44 AM
  #280
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I'm dead serious !
PK still has lot to learn and I would not cry if the management decide to move out and trade him (for a good return tough)
You seriously think PK Subban does not deserve significantly more than 875k per year? That's your serious, fully thought out, soberly reflected upon opinion?

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01-18-2013, 10:45 AM
  #281
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PK definitely deserves a raise from his ELC, however he hasn't earned a 6-7-8 year deal yet. Take 2 years 7 million and then get your 8 year deal PK

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01-18-2013, 10:45 AM
  #282
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I'm dead serious !
PK still has lot to learn and I would not cry if the management decide to move out and trade him (for a good return tough)
So, what would you call a significant raise then, because PK was making 875k/yr... At this point in time even if he gets quadruple that money he would still be underpaid.

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01-18-2013, 10:48 AM
  #283
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If they ask too much salaries as RFA for what they have accomplished sure... Hey I have nothing against long term contract but PK is still very green and does not deserves a significant raise.
I don't find he is that "green". There is still a couple more "notches" he can improve by but if he was not not develop anymore he is already a strong top 4 NHL defenseman. He played big minutes against tough opposition most of last year and as a whole he did very well(sure he ahd a few rough games, he IS human).

The low end salary for a top 4 d-man is 3.5-4 mil, so IMHO that would be the bare minimum he should get.

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01-18-2013, 10:49 AM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Strik_IX View Post
I think it's more a case of people are tired of that process taking so long. They've had quite enough time before AND after the lockout to get a deal done and it hasn't yet.

It's not as if PK/Meehan and MB had no contact at all regarding this matter. They've been at it for a really long time.
Well, here's what's incomplete with that assessment: people think only one side should cave, and are suggesting that it's actually viable for MB to let PK sit for as long as it would take to make him do so.

Seems like a lot of people don't care how long it takes, just so long as MB "wins."

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01-18-2013, 10:49 AM
  #285
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PK definitely deserves a raise from his ELC, however he hasn't earned a 6-7-8 year deal yet. Take 2 years 7 million and then get your 8 year deal PK
That puts him at 3.5M...

Less than Markov, Gorges, Kaberle...

Do you think he's less important than those 3 players? Who between Markov, Gorges, Kaberle and Subban is more likely to get the most minutes this year?

The habs certainly don't seem to think he needs to prove himself...because they use him as though he's their most accomplished defensman.

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01-18-2013, 10:53 AM
  #286
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PK definitely deserves a raise from his ELC, however he hasn't earned a 6-7-8 year deal yet. Take 2 years 7 million and then get your 8 year deal PK
6-7-8 year deals are not really "earned", especially for the young players that have signed them in the last year...Zajac Skinner Hall Eberle etc etc

Most of that is due to their potential and wanting to keep them long term(not losing them to UFA or RFA offer sheet) and also having them at a reasonable cap number(5-6 mil/year instead of 8-9 mil/year in their prime).

So a contract is as much about potential as performance. The team that signs Redden or Gomez will pay them what they think they are at minimum worth THIS season, not what they "earned" as all-stars 5-6 or 10 years ago.

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01-18-2013, 10:55 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
That puts him at 3.5M...

Less than Markov, Gorges, Kaberle...

Do you think he's less important than those 3 players? Who between Markov, Gorges, Kaberle and Subban is more likely to get the most minutes this year?

The habs certainly don't seem to think he needs to prove himself...because they use him as though he's their most accomplished defensman.
Seems to me that salaries goes with what players have been proven for a certain amount of time. 2nd contract isn't what Bergevin considers as "a lot of time".

If DD has another while Pleks isn't producing that much....should DD get automatically more than 5 M$/year? I guess not 'cause even if he does, there will still be question marks. There's still some wondering about his defensive play and the fact that he might not AS complete. Well, while we all know where it's going, Subban hasn,t been a consistency model. While Markov prior to the injuries proved he was. Some with Gorges who plays an awesome role in a really deficient defensive squad over the years. I personnally do believe that 3,9 M$ for Gorges is way too much but who gave that contract? Add the fact that the cap goes at 64 next year, why the heck would the Subban camp not see that, go with shorter now and then, ask for the world in 2 years when the cap won't be at 64 and when he will have proven his real worth.

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01-18-2013, 10:55 AM
  #288
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give the guy 2 years at 4.75 and call it a day.

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01-18-2013, 10:57 AM
  #289
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Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
If he "held out", he would be out of a job rather quickly.

They would just find the next 24 year old punk to do what he does.
Right, because he's not special. How many people can do why PK does as well as him? 10-20 people in the WHOLE world? He is not easily replaceable.

If you were your employer's best employee, got less cash, and was a wanted commodity by your competition, you'd bet your ass you'd hold out for more cash if workers beneath you would make more than you.
Anybody that says otherwise is flat out lying.

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01-18-2013, 10:57 AM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Seems to me that salaries goes with what players have been proven for a certain amount of time. 2nd contract isn't what Bergevin considers as "a lot of time".

If DD has another while Pleks isn't producing that much....should DD get automatically more than 5 M$/year? I guess not 'cause even if he does, there will still be question marks. There's still some wondering about his defensive play and the fact that he might not AS complete. Well, while we all know where it's going, Subban hasn,t been a consistency model. While Markov prior to the injuries proved he was. Some with Gorges who plays an awesome role in a really deficient defensive squad over the years. I personnally do believe that 3,9 M$ for Gorges is way too much but who gave that contract? Add the fact that the cap goes at 64 next year, why the heck would the Subban camp not see that, go with shorter now and then, ask for the world in 2 years when the cap won't be at 64 and when he will have proven his real worth.
If DD puts up a similar season that he had last year, or even surpasses it? Then absolutely yes

At least if he has an agent that's worth anything

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01-18-2013, 10:58 AM
  #291
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Yeah, but the question was framed in a way that implied you COULD hold out. Meaning, you can't invoke reasons for why you couldn't hold out and still answer the question.

So, here's the question: "you CAN hold out for more money, you said you wouldn't. Why?"
Because a) there is no guarantee i will get what i'm asking for, and b) I'd rather work than do nothing.

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01-18-2013, 10:59 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
That puts him at 3.5M...

Less than Markov, Gorges, Kaberle...

Do you think he's less important than those 3 players? Who between Markov, Gorges, Kaberle and Subban is more likely to get the most minutes this year?

The habs certainly don't seem to think he needs to prove himself...because they use him as though he's their most accomplished defensman.
Makin less money doesn't mean your less important. Should 3rd and 4th liners take shifts and nights off cause the're payed less then top 6 players?

At the end of the day, PK is going to get a long term contract in 2 -3 years from now and making a **** load of money, he doesn't need to be acting this way right now and should get back into action especially with this year counting and already half done

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01-18-2013, 10:59 AM
  #293
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Because a) there is no guarantee i will get what i'm asking for, and b) I'd rather work than do nothing.
So you wouldn't even attempt to make more than you were making at the time?

...did you marry the first girl who let you round the bases?

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01-18-2013, 11:01 AM
  #294
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Thing is, somebody needs to move. And as a fan, whether it's Bergevin or Subban, somebody needs to lose as clealry they are not in the same ballpark, or else there would be a deal in place. So who can afford to lose more? A player who in the end, at worst, will gain it all back with his next contract and if he's not happy could cash in the day of the UFA market? Or the GM who by giving a big contract will open the doors to everybody else in the future who will take Subban's contract as an exemple of what the "structure" is all about. Bergevin has a lot to lose here, much more than PK. And if PK is really about the team and winning, he would take the bridge instead of holding up. 'Cause his contract is not solely about him anymore. It's about the structure of the team, it's about the dressing room division about him or not, it's about the division with the fans and the organization. That's what it comes down to. And if people mention that everything else is not his business, well sorry. When you are paid that much, it's not solely about your little persona. And especially not in Montreal.

And for whoever will love to blame yesterday's crowd for a big contract ahead, it makes no sense either. People want PK. But if the Habs win 1 game in a row, they will forget who PK is. If Habs win, people won't mind. If Habs lose, people will mind. Yet, with or without the chant, if Habs would lose 1, 2, or 3 games in a row, Bergevin would have had the same type of pressure.

And frankly, for the sake of the organization, it should never come down to what type of start we have. Not good for the season, as 3 losses in a row might already be too mcuh, not good for the atmosphere between players, not good for the relation between PK and Bergevin who in the end, will clearly want out at 27 if he has the choice to.
100% on side with you.

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01-18-2013, 11:02 AM
  #295
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6-7-8 year deals are not really "earned", especially for the young players that have signed them in the last year...Zajac Skinner Hall Eberle etc etc

Most of that is due to their potential and wanting to keep them long term(not losing them to UFA or RFA offer sheet) and also having them at a reasonable cap number(5-6 mil/year instead of 8-9 mil/year in their prime).

So a contract is as much about potential as performance. The team that signs Redden or Gomez will pay them what they think they are at minimum worth THIS season, not what they "earned" as all-stars 5-6 or 10 years ago.
But there are still question marks for Subban. Contrary to the others. Subban had a fair season compared to ther others, on a weak team, yet, some will always say that it's easier to have a better season when you are actually doing everything since your squad is so weak. He still ended up with about as many points as Ian White or Ryan McDonagh. Or Nikita Nikitin. And there still some things to learn about his defensive coverage. And he does have to slow down on the penalties. And he seems that he was not exactly your greatest teamate. And then on top of that, I'm not sure I'm penalizing him that much for giving him a 4 M$/ year for 2 years contracts. It is 4 M$.....And giving him that contract won't make you lose him. If Subban knows he's that great, he will end up getting MORE after that 2 years than what Bergevin would offer him now.

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01-18-2013, 11:02 AM
  #296
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saw a tweet, that the lines are
Patches-DD-Cole
Gally-Plek-Gio
Moen-Eller-Bourque
Prust-White-Armstrong

Markov-Emelin
Kaberle-Gorges
Bouillon-Daiz
Weber
with Blunden and Gallagher the extra

I think Gallagher is here until Subban is signed, I know its different position, but its a roster spot, and maybe they see Gallagher as the next guy up if injuries happen, and giving him a few more practices with the club.

And Blunded here until Noke is back from his injury.
I'm really curious which defense pairing will handle the tough assignments...

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01-18-2013, 11:02 AM
  #297
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It's like people want the BMW but want to play the price of a Civic for it. And that makes sense to some.

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01-18-2013, 11:02 AM
  #298
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Habs cant possibly go far with the current roster.
Subban should just stay at home so we get a chance at a better pick.

#gotank

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01-18-2013, 11:04 AM
  #299
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Makin less money doesn't mean your less important. Should 3rd and 4th liners take shifts and nights off cause the're payed less then top 6 players?

At the end of the day, PK is going to get a long term contract in 2 -3 years from now and making a **** load of money, he doesn't need to be acting this way right now and should get back into action especially with this year counting and already half done
Hmmm...depends. I'm not sure that's always the case.

Again, it isn't like PK plays on the 3rd pairing or isn't used during important situations...

The Habs ask ALOT of Subban, and they've done so pretty much since he's stepped on the ice for them.

I don't think it's unfair that in return, he asks them for a more significant financial commitment, even one that could be argued that, today, is not fully warranted.

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01-18-2013, 11:05 AM
  #300
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So you wouldn't even attempt to make more than you were making at the time?

...did you marry the first girl who let you round the bases?
Haha, no

Money isn't the be all and end all imo. Players play to win the Stanley Cup no? They get paid well for it, but if they're not getting paid then they are not playing and they can't win the Stanley Cup.

PK thinks he is worth more, that's fine, but he will not have the chance to play hockey until they agree. So while PK wants 'what he thinks he is worth' he will not be playing until the Canadiens decide otherwise.

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