HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

P.K. Subban Thread - Mk III - Unsigned Edition

View Poll Results: Who should break first
Bergevin 61 25.00%
Subban 183 75.00%
Voters: 244. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-18-2013, 03:45 PM
  #401
sheed36
Registered User
 
sheed36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I like Kulikov a lot but he's not nearly as proven as PK. Not that Florida is stacked defensively but he didn't get (and thrive in) quite the same difficult assignments as PK.

Let me remind everyone about this which shows you just how good Subban really is: http://hockeyanalytics.com/2012/06/2...-usage-charts/

Despite playing the second toughest defensive minutes on the team after Gorges, the Habs were significantly better with Subban on the ice than without him. The same can't be said of Gorges and Plekanec, the teams other two most defensively important players.

The same can't be said of Kulikov (who did respectable but was out-possessed in a moderately difficult role), Del Zotto (who was used in 60% offensive zone starts). Or even Myers and his generous contract.

Within Subban's age group compareables are Hedman, Ekman-Larsson, McDonaugh (), Pietranglo - the kind of guys who have superstar upside. Subban played - and thrived in - a more difficult role than Doughty last year.



Surprised he got that little, Kulikov is very talented. But he was poor in the playoffs last year, probably didn't help his case. I think he's going to be a good one but he has consistency issues.

I've heard that many times about Subban also.

sheed36 is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 03:49 PM
  #402
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheed36 View Post
I've heard that many times about Subban also.
All young defenseman have that problem to some degree, but Subban will have a bad game or so, while Kulikov will have good and bad months.

Et le But is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 03:50 PM
  #403
Dr Gonzo
#1 Jan Bulis Fan
 
Dr Gonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bat Country
Posts: 4,373
vCash: 500
Just for fun, what do you guys think fair value is for PK?

Let's say he demands a 5 year deal, and MB obliges, what do you think he would be worth?

Personally I'd say $5-$5.25 is reasonable.

Dr Gonzo is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 03:55 PM
  #404
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Just for fun, what do you guys think fair value is for PK?

Let's say he demands a 5 year deal, and MB obliges, what do you think he would be worth?

Personally I'd say $5-$5.25 is reasonable.
I agree.

DAChampion is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 03:58 PM
  #405
bjac
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,045
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Well, that's contradictory. You can't say Bergy wants to put forth a team structure, and he needs to stand on his ground because if he budges now, it simply looks bad on him. In other words, he will stick to his 2y bridge contract idea. But then say, if PK wanted an 8y deal at 4.5M, he would agree to it because it's an amazing deal.
It's either one or the other. If Bergy is open to a long term deal, then the problem is they haven't agreed on a number, it has nothing to do with team structure.
Well no its not. I doubt MB would be that inflexible, it wouldn't be logical as you would put it. I am sure he much prefers a 2 year deal and is battling to get that now, but if Subban wanted to sign a huge deal at that cap hit (which is very small...) I don't doubt he would pull thee trigger. If that deal that you proposed was on the table from Subbans side, this negotiation ends because its a steal. While noone actually knows, I would bet that the longterm contract that Subban wants is at a cap hit WAY higher than 4.5.

Quote:
All in all, if this bridge contract idea is true, I think it's stupid.
You are saying it's principle vs logic. Logic would tell you, PK is already a star and is only going to get better, so sign him long term now for cheaper.
Principle, everybody needs to follow a 2y bridge contract.
Well you've gotten the meaning of logic mixed up again. Yes PK is a great player and could be alot better in the future, but the logical reality is there are no guarntees on his development. There have been plenty of players who take nose dives early in their NHL careers. Therefore the logical approach would to be cautious and try to sign him to a 2 year deal where they can further evaluate his progression and pay him accordingly when he comes close to reaching UFA status. I think he would succeed, but thats just my opinion that is really based on nothing concrete other than watching him play 82+ games. I can't tell the future, niether can MB, and niether can you. With an uncertain future, caution is wise.

In the end, Habs management are taking the logical approach to this, contrary to your believes. They are being cautious and trying to protect the franchise salary structure. If Subban gets Doughty money any top UFA will want similar money because Subbans contract will have set the tone for future negotiations in Montreal (not to mention Gally when he comes of age).

Quote:
It's just dumb. Sign the kid already, he's your best player, and the only leverage you have is he's a RFA. Creating a rift between management and your star player this early in your tenure is just dumb.
Also, from what the fans have demonstrated yesterday, it seems there's more chances of Bergevin creating a rift between him and the fans more so than PK and the fans.
This is business and Subban obviously knows it. He is mature enough to take it as it is, a business negotiations with nothing personal attached. I don't see a rift forming, this isn't a group of prepubescent teens, its professionals. The only rift that is being created is between two groups of fans, who are arguing on the internet tooth and nail as if they had hurt each others families or something.

People are being way to dramatic

bjac is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 04:04 PM
  #406
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Just for fun, what do you guys think fair value is for PK?

Let's say he demands a 5 year deal, and MB obliges, what do you think he would be worth?

Personally I'd say $5-$5.25 is reasonable.
5 for 5 is perfectly reasonable, any more than that and I understand the hesitation, though going up to around 5.25 is still something I think is worth doing. Of course it also depends on the yearly breakdown.

Et le But is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 04:10 PM
  #407
MrNasty
Registered User
 
MrNasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,477
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Just for fun, what do you guys think fair value is for PK?

Let's say he demands a 5 year deal, and MB obliges, what do you think he would be worth?

Personally I'd say $5-$5.25 is reasonable.
I don't think 5 years is fair value...not yet..unless it doesn't have a NTC. If he has a poor attitude and loses respect from teammates then you have to be able to move him.

MrNasty is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 04:16 PM
  #408
RC51
Registered User
 
RC51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,658
vCash: 500
Patches signed for 6 years at 4.5
Subban is not a better player he is about the same quality player.
so match up the Patches contract. 6 at 4.5 that way MB is ok with that.

RC51 is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 04:18 PM
  #409
Jabba11
Hockey Lobby
 
Jabba11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,460
vCash: 500
Maybe PK wants to be a Maple Leafs?

Jabba11 is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 04:21 PM
  #410
vipergtx18*
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 71
vCash: 500
Can anybody answer me this. Why has no other team offered him a contract, which they have every right to do so???

vipergtx18* is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 04:23 PM
  #411
vipergtx18*
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 71
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabba11 View Post
Maybe PK wants to be a Maple Leafs?
Comments like that are usualy saved for April fools day lol

vipergtx18* is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 04:25 PM
  #412
chaosrevolver
Snubbed Again
 
chaosrevolver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,097
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by vipergtx18 View Post
Can anybody answer me this. Why has no other team offered him a contract, which they have every right to do so???
Do not forget that you wont hear about an offer sheet made that is not signed by the player.

It is a real possibility that PK just wants to stay a Hab and doesnt want to sign an offer sheet for anyone else.

chaosrevolver is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 04:27 PM
  #413
Le Tricolore
Boo! Booooo!
 
Le Tricolore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 27,647
vCash: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNasty View Post
I don't think 5 years is fair value...not yet..unless it doesn't have a NTC. If he has a poor attitude and loses respect from teammates then you have to be able to move him.
What a dumb thing to say. Why would he just suddenly lose respect for people?

Le Tricolore is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 04:28 PM
  #414
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vipergtx18 View Post
Can anybody answer me this. Why has no other team offered him a contract, which they have every right to do so???
RFA offer sheets are almost never signed, even though many, many of them are amazing.

That is because the compensation packages are prohibitive, as is the fear of retaliation.

DAChampion is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 04:46 PM
  #415
FinnHab
Registered User
 
FinnHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: overseas...
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,222
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Just for fun, what do you guys think fair value is for PK?

Let's say he demands a 5 year deal, and MB obliges, what do you think he would be worth?

Personally I'd say $5-$5.25 is reasonable.
$4M-> max $4.75M

FinnHab is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 04:53 PM
  #416
maci4life
Registered User
 
maci4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Country: Macedonia
Posts: 888
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Tricolore View Post
What a dumb thing to say. Why would he just suddenly lose respect for people?

ummm lets see

fight in practice with pleks

fight in practice with DD

that was just last year.

None of us know how PK can or will turn out. I think he's going to need a football helmet soon because his head won't fit in a hockey helmet anymore.

maci4life is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 04:55 PM
  #417
VAN-HAB
Vancouver Habitant
 
VAN-HAB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Port Moody BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,978
vCash: 500
sign him for 5.5 for 6 years.... is not from my pay anyway.

VAN-HAB is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 05:06 PM
  #418
onebighockeyfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,494
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
She works for CJAD and CTV in sports. She spoke to Meehan on the phone. I mean, that's about as good as it gets, no?
I just spoke to Meehan and he said she's a nutjob

onebighockeyfan is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 05:09 PM
  #419
One Man Rock Band
Slater's Gonna Slate
 
One Man Rock Band's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Habville
Country: Canada
Posts: 44,002
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
As @hfialkov first reported Dmitri Kulikov now signed with FLA. Two year deal with AAV of $2.5M ($2M and $3M). FLA submits for NHL approval
That is good for Marc Bergevin. Kulikov had a very similar season to PK and is also coming off his ELC. Kulikov was actually on pace for slighty more points although he logged about 2-minutes less per game than PK (24 minutes for PK, 22 minutes for Kulikov).

Kulikov is slotted in as the #2 in Florida behind Campbell. Subban is the #1 or #2 (depending on how Markov plays and how he holds up). PK deserves a bit more, but this is great. $3M per for two years would be excellent.

Good bargaining chip for MB.

One Man Rock Band is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 05:11 PM
  #420
onebighockeyfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,494
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Just for fun, what do you guys think fair value is for PK?

Let's say he demands a 5 year deal, and MB obliges, what do you think he would be worth?

Personally I'd say $5-$5.25 is reasonable.
I would be happy for 2-3 years at ~4 million.

Longer term I think is riskier since he's not completely proven yet and his attitude, maturity and productivity needs to improve significantly to warrant top D $. For example I think he needs a 55-60 point season under his belt before he busts the bank. Right now I would be OK with a ~4.5 million for up to 6 years. Like Max Pac.

I like the 2-3 year deal. If he performs like so many on here argue he will, then he will get top D $.

onebighockeyfan is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 05:12 PM
  #421
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,135
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by maci4life View Post
ummm lets see

fight in practice with pleks

fight in practice with DD

that was just last year.

None of us know how PK can or will turn out. I think he's going to need a football helmet soon because his head won't fit in a hockey helmet anymore.
Because fights in practice NEVER happen!

hockeyfan2k11 is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 05:14 PM
  #422
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,135
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
That is good for Marc Bergevin. Kulikov had a very similar season to PK and is also coming off his ELC. Kulikov was actually on pace for slighty more points although he logged about 2-minutes less per game than PK.

Kulikov is slotted in as the #2 in Florida behind Campbell. Subban is the #1 or #2 (depending on how Markov plays and how he holds up). PK deserves a bit more, but this is great. $3M per for two years would be excellent.

Good bargaining chip for MB.
Not in the same category. PK has NEVER been a #2 D-man.

hockeyfan2k11 is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 05:17 PM
  #423
One Man Rock Band
Slater's Gonna Slate
 
One Man Rock Band's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Habville
Country: Canada
Posts: 44,002
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Not in the same category. PK has NEVER been a #2 D-man.
I don't even know what this means???

He averaged 2-minutes more per game than Kulikov, while posting a very similar season. Subban deserves more, but not much more. He's not that much better than Kulikov. This definitely works in MB's favor if they are throwing comparison contracts on the table.

One Man Rock Band is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 05:19 PM
  #424
onebighockeyfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,494
vCash: 500
1. Weber, Shea D NAS 27 14 $7,857,143
2. Suter, Ryan D MIN 27 13 $7,538,462
3. Campbell, Brian D FLA 33 8 $7,142,875
4. Doughty, Drew D LAK 23 8 $7,000,000
5. Chara, Zdeno D BOS 35 7 $6,916,667
6. Bouwmeester, Jay D CGY 29 5 $6,680,000
7. Boyle, Dan D SAN 36 6 $6,666,667
8. Phaneuf, Dion D TOR 27 6 $6,500,000
9. Karlsson, Erik D OTT 22 7 $6,500,000
10. Timonen, Kimmo D PHI 37 6 $6,333,333
11. Green, Mike D WAS 27 3 $6,083,333
12. Seabrook, Brent D CHI 27 5 $5,800,000
13. Burns, Brent D SAN 27 5 $5,760,000
14. Markov, Andrei D MTL 34 3 $5,750,000
15. Visnovsky, Lubomir D NYI 36 5 $5,600,000
16. Keith, Duncan D CHI 29 13 $5,538,462
17. Gonchar, Sergei D OTT 38 3 $5,500,000
18. Wisniewski, James D CLB 28 6 $5,500,000
19. Myers, Tyler D BUF 22 7 $5,500,000
20. Carle, Matt D TBL 28 6 $5,500,000
21. Yandle, Keith D PHO 26 5 $5,250,000
22. Wideman, Dennis D CGY 29 5 $5,250,000
23. Byfuglien, Dustin D WIN 27 5 $5,200,000
24. Martin, Paul D PIT 31 5 $5,000,000

onebighockeyfan is offline  
Old
01-18-2013, 05:20 PM
  #425
stug*
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Sweden
Posts: 1,642
vCash: 500
Well atleast we all know that Subban is all about the money.

stug* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:42 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.