There is really no way Alfie is better than Sundin, by any stretch. The guy didn't even have as good a team as Alfie did and he still smacked him 4 times in the playoffs, and put up decent number.
There is really no way Alfie is better than Sundin, by any stretch. The guy didn't even have as good a team as Alfie did and he still smacked him 4 times in the playoffs, and put up decent number.
Leaf fans still clinging onto stuff from 10 years ago? Also that team Sundin played for had double the payroll of Alfredsson's team.
Why are you even trying to use team vs team as a way of saying Sundin is better? It's irrelevant.
When teams are brought up and winning in a team game against each other it is a factor.
Personally it is close. Anyone saying otherwise is kidding themselves.
Sundin better offensively, Alfredsson better defensively. Both great leaders. Both have played with pretty bad players for the majority of their careers. Both hit by a year and a half of lockouts. Both have not really any playoff success.
There is no AINEC to be said here. People need to learn that things are allowed to be close.
That's why the Leafs were the higher seed 3 out of 4 times.
The revisionism around here is hilarious.
Leafs were higher in the standings but if you recall listening to the radio, reading the papers...the word was that our skill would just overcome the creaky Leafs, that they were thugs, all that stuff. I mean...how do you explain John Rodenburg of Team 1200 staying up until 4 a.m. fielding calls if at least some part of the fanbase didn't expect to win?
Hell, I remember on another sports forum there were $100-$500 bets flying around on the Senators...lack of confidence on our part (the fans) wasn't an issue for sure!
Not that I remember how good teams they had, but how is that relevant?
It kind of pokes holes in the mythology of the vastly superior Senators and the plucky underdog Leafs.
The big choke job was the #2 seed Senators getting swept by the #7 Leafs. Somehow that series has been applied to all 4 meetings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensFanDan
Leafs were higher in the standings but if you recall listening to the radio, reading the papers...the word was that our skill would just overcome the creaky Leafs, that they were thugs, all that stuff. I mean...how do you explain John Rodenburg of Team 1200 staying up until 4 a.m. fielding calls if at least some part of the fanbase didn't expect to win?
Sens fans were pretty desperate in those days to prove their team's mettle.
When teams are brought up and winning in a team game against each other it is a factor.
Personally it is close. Anyone saying otherwise is kidding themselves.
Sundin better offensively, Alfredsson better defensively. Both great leaders. Both have played with pretty bad players for the majority of their careers. Both hit by a year and a half of lockouts. Both have not really any playoff success.
There is no AINEC to be said here. People need to learn that things are allowed to be close.
Is winning the Stanley cup the only success that can be achieved in the playoffs? Curious because you said both have no playoff success and the only thing Alfie hasn't achieved in the playoffs is a cup or Conn smythe.
Matts Sundin went into the HHOF with no NHL hardware. I wonder if there are any other players there who failed to win anything at all either individually or as part of a team,during a long NHL career.
He was captain of a team that, long with Philadelphia and Detroit and New York in pre cap days spent far more than other teams could afford, especially a very poor team like the Sens were at that time.
And yet for all that Sundin did not win anything for himself nor was he able to lead his team to anything either.The only thing they hang their hat on is defeating the Sens 4 times.
The reams of writing about Sundin in one of the posts above and which comes up every time this is mentioned, is mostly to do with Leaf Club records, his popularity in Sweden(his big smile is often mentioned )the international teams he(and all top Swedish players) were part of and obscure records like most goals in the second half of the final period or some such nonsense.
He was a first round pick and a very good reliable player for a long time and captained one of the most wealthy teams in the pre cap era with a rabid fan base which includes most of the national sports media.
Alfie was not a first round pick and came to a small market team in precap days when they were nearly and then did go bankrupt, nevertheless he took both himself and led his team much farther than did Sundin.
Shall we count the all star players these two guys have had to play with?
Sundin's best winger was Mogilny who only played one full season, and after that.... erm... Berezin?
Yes, please list all the stars that played beside Alfredsson. Spezza, Heatley, and then the list seems to stop there...
As for Sundin's wingers, I think there's a few players you missed between Mogilny and Berezin. Nieuwendy, Roberts, Nolan, Wendel Clark come to mind. They were passed their prime playing with Sundin but let's not act like they're somehow worlds worse than Fisher, Arvedsson, Bonk and Schaeffer.
Yes, please list all the stars that played beside Alfredsson. Spezza, Heatley, and then the list seems to stop there...
As for Sundin's wingers, I think there's a few players you missed between Mogilny and Berezin. Nieuwendy, Roberts, Nolan, Wendel Clark come to mind. They were passed their prime playing with Sundin but let's not act like they're somehow worlds worse than Fisher, Arvedsson, Bonk and Schaeffer.
Yes, please list all the stars that played beside Alfredsson. Spezza, Heatley, and then the list seems to stop there...
As for Sundin's wingers, I think there's a few players you missed between Mogilny and Berezin. Nieuwendy, Roberts, Nolan, Wendel Clark come to mind. They were passed their prime playing with Sundin but let's not act like they're somehow worlds worse than Fisher, Arvedsson, Bonk and Schaeffer.
lol Alfredsson probably spent more time on a line with Havlat and Hossa than Sundin spent with some of the players you listed (In other words, Sundin basically didn't play with them). I don't really think Sundin playing with 50 point players helps your argument anyways. You also forgot to mention Yashin, who was a decent player back in the day.
fielding calls if at least some part of the fanbase didn't expect to win?
