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Zack Bogosian to Detroit

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Old
01-18-2013, 05:44 PM
  #301
TLinden16
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Tatar
Quincey
1st 2013

for

Bogo

Thoughts?

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Old
01-18-2013, 05:50 PM
  #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLinden16 View Post
Tatar
Quincey
1st 2013

for

Bogo

Thoughts?
Winnipeg still says no.

There is literally nothing other than a ridiculously crazy overpayment that would get Bogosian out of Winnipeg. Even then the Jets might still say no.

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Old
01-18-2013, 05:53 PM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLinden16 View Post
Tatar
Quincey
1st 2013

for

Bogo

Thoughts?
Doesn't help the Jets long term enough IMO.

It's fun to talk about but Bogo is the kind of defenseman the Jets need now, and want for the future. Trading him for unknowns doesn't help a rebuild or to compete now.

A Kessel type deal in a contract year is the only reason I could fathom they'd consider trading him.

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Old
01-18-2013, 06:14 PM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
Winnipeg still says no.

There is literally nothing other than a ridiculously crazy overpayment that would get Bogosian out of Winnipeg. Even then the Jets might still say no.
I guess Datsyuk for Bogosian is out of the question then.

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Old
01-18-2013, 06:31 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Schneiderman View Post
I guess Datsyuk for Bogosian is out of the question then.
I'd put that in the crazy ridiculous overpayment area.

Although considering he's 34, would the Jets think they can win the cup before he retires? Seriously shrinks their window.

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01-18-2013, 06:42 PM
  #306
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This is a redundant discussion

This trade will never ever happen so why is everybody speculating on this? All the Wings fans have no idea how good Zach is and they want to offer a weak weak package of players for him. Five pages of how about this guy for Zach and on and on it goes. How about a more realistic post i.e. Helm for Slater?

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01-18-2013, 06:48 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
I've said it before I'll say it again, people should have went after him last year like I wanted my teams to. At this point forget about it.
Maybe they tried but management knew what they really had.

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Old
01-18-2013, 06:57 PM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyisforkids View Post
This trade will never ever happen so why is everybody speculating on this? All the Wings fans have no idea how good Zach is and they want to offer a weak weak package of players for him. Five pages of how about this guy for Zach and on and on it goes. How about a more realistic post i.e. Helm for Slater?
Right.... Helm for Slater is realistic.

I get that Bogo will take overpayment but that is a terrible example and ruins any realistic discussion you were shooting for.

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01-18-2013, 07:00 PM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
I'd put that in the crazy ridiculous overpayment area.

Although considering he's 34, would the Jets think they can win the cup before he retires? Seriously shrinks their window.
That would be a year and half. Doubtful Datsyuk re-signs after his contract is up in Winnipeg. Many of us wonder if he will sign an additional two or three year deal in Detroit or just go back to Russia.

It would be a steep package for even a rental package, but you need to be a lot closer than the Jets to enter that bidding in my opinion.

Unlike a lot of Wings fans I am open to the idea, if Datsyuk will not sign next summer he should be shopped.

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Old
01-18-2013, 07:01 PM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLinden16 View Post
Tatar
Quincey
1st 2013

for

Bogo

Thoughts?
Detroit overpaying with that one.

I wouldn't give more than one of Quincey/Kindl, one of Andersson/Nyquist/Pare, and 3rd rounder. That's a top 4 d-man..an A prospect and a 3rd rounder in 2013 or a 2nd in 2014.

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01-18-2013, 07:06 PM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golffuul View Post
Detroit overpaying with that one.

I wouldn't give more than one of Quincey/Kindl, one of Andersson/Nyquist/Pare, and 3rd rounder. That's a top 4 d-man..an A prospect and a 3rd rounder in 2013 or a 2nd in 2014.
I don't think that is overpayment at all, it is close to the package I think will be realistically offered, but would also understand the Jets turning it down.

Quincey played for team Canada at the WC and has been a top 4 d-man in the league for a little while now. Detroit fans hurt his own value around here like they do Franzen he is not a throw in and went for a first round pick not 12 months ago in a RFA year.

Andersson, Nyquist and Pare are not like prospects so that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Andersson and Pare are not A prospects.

It would have to be Tatar/Nyquist/Jurco (although his transition to the AHL has likely knocked him out of that grouping)

The 1st pick in the 2013 draft is a big deal, this year reminds me of 03. Part of why I am okay with the Wings letting this play out this season, I don't want an overreaction from Holland if they struggle, promote the kids and keep the pick, not desperately reach for season 22 straight in the playoffs and hurt the team in the long run.

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Old
01-18-2013, 07:22 PM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golffuul View Post
Detroit overpaying with that one.

I wouldn't give more than one of Quincey/Kindl, one of Andersson/Nyquist/Pare, and 3rd rounder. That's a top 4 d-man..an A prospect and a 3rd rounder in 2013 or a 2nd in 2014.
That's not close to overpayment at all. That's not even an offer that would make the Jets think it would be an easy no.

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01-18-2013, 07:34 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Right.... Helm for Slater is realistic.

I get that Bogo will take overpayment but that is a terrible example and ruins any realistic discussion you were shooting for.
Just as awful as the proposals for Bogosian have been.

Quote:
Originally Posted by golffuul View Post
Detroit overpaying with that one.

I wouldn't give more than one of Quincey/Kindl, one of Andersson/Nyquist/Pare, and 3rd rounder. That's a top 4 d-man..an A prospect and a 3rd rounder in 2013 or a 2nd in 2014.
Case in point. This is god awful.

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01-18-2013, 07:44 PM
  #314
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We have Jim Slater his name is Justin Abdelkader, I mean they have been getting compared for years, went to same the college, both Michigan boys and Abdelkader is fractionally better. Abdelkader cannot beat out Helm and is a six years younger than Slater and already has better career seasons while being a heavier player.

Say what you want about some of the Bogosian offers you can pass on them, but Slater for Abdelkader is a pass, much less Helm.

Quincey, Nyquist/Tatar and a first is a legit offer, but you pass on it. But that is a top 4 d-man, a top 6 NHL ready prospect with good pro track records and very good scouting reports and a first in the deepest draft in 10 years.

I am sorry one of these is not like the other even if you're the president of the Bogosian fan club you should probably see that.

I agreed that the tweaking the offer didn't make sense and it was not overpayment. But it was far from ridiculous although clearly you pass.

The prices you're getting at for Bogo in this thread are Rick Nash, Bobby Ryan type packages. I don't think Bogosian is there yet either, certainly will hurt to acquire him in terms of assets but probably not to the level Jets fans are desiring here.


Last edited by The Zetterberg Era: 01-18-2013 at 07:51 PM.
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Old
01-18-2013, 07:49 PM
  #315
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I find it hard to believe that this topic is still going.

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Old
01-18-2013, 08:30 PM
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
We have Jim Slater his name is Justin Abdelkader, I mean they have been getting compared for years, went to same the college, both Michigan boys and Abdelkader is fractionally better. Abdelkader cannot beat out Helm and is a six years younger than Slater and already has better career seasons while being a heavier player.

Say what you want about some of the Bogosian offers you can pass on them, but Slater for Abdelkader is a pass, much less Helm.

Quincey, Nyquist/Tatar and a first is a legit offer, but you pass on it. But that is a top 4 d-man, a top 6 NHL ready prospect with good pro track records and very good scouting reports and a first in the deepest draft in 10 years.

I am sorry one of these is not like the other even if you're the president of the Bogosian fan club you should probably see that.

I agreed that the tweaking the offer didn't make sense and it was not overpayment. But it was far from ridiculous although clearly you pass.

The prices you're getting at for Bogo in this thread are Rick Nash, Bobby Ryan type packages. I don't think Bogosian is there yet either, certainly will hurt to acquire him in terms of assets but probably not to the level Jets fans are desiring here.
You can say that "Quincey, Nyquist/Tatar and a first is a legit offer", but just because you think it, that doesn't make it so.

27 year old Quincy, with 1 year until UFA after this one isn't a very attractive piece to the Jets. Nyquist and Tatar are fine prospects, and the Detroit 1st is likely to be 20+. None of that makes the Jets a better team after losing Bogosian, and anyone that read post 208 would know that.

To quote garret9 (bolded for emphasis):

"If too long and you don't want to read:
*Bogosian's plus/minus would have been in the positives while playing tough minutes had he been continuously with Hainsey instead of Stuart
*of guys with defensive shutdown role Bogosian had the 4th best points per a min in the entire league
*of guys that had defensive shutdown role Bogosian was able to have the 17th best Corsi
... this is spent with the major part of his minutes being with Mark Stuart who would range a 5-7 on most NHL teams defense..."

Every Jet fan is just going to disagree with you, and that's fine. But just because you think an offer is "fair" doesn't make it so.

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01-18-2013, 09:01 PM
  #317
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Guys, lets let this one go. You have to pony up for a former top 5 draft pick who is just blossoming into the player he was projected to be. It would be like Nyquist having a PPG season 2 years from now and the Jets offering us Mark Stuart, good prospect and a 20ish overall pick. Why would we want that? Our guy is just becoming a legit 1st liner. Even if the value is close, it makes no sense and Wings fans would laugh at the offer. It is pointless.

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01-18-2013, 09:01 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by golffuul View Post
Detroit overpaying with that one.

I wouldn't give more than one of Quincey/Kindl, one of Andersson/Nyquist/Pare, and 3rd rounder. That's a top 4 d-man..an A prospect and a 3rd rounder in 2013 or a 2nd in 2014.
Andersson and Pare are A prospects? wut

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01-18-2013, 09:28 PM
  #319
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It's funny how a thread keeps going sometimes. It started with a wildly offbase blog by some one who doesn't have a clue, and is less likely to happen then me winning the lottery tonight (and I don't even have a ticket). Yet there 319 posts and counting. Someone please start a garbage + prospect thread for Zetterberg to distract people.

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01-19-2013, 01:16 AM
  #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneiderman View Post
I guess Datsyuk for Bogosian is out of the question then.
Bogosian's not a better player at his respective position than Pavel Datsyuk and he's not going to be.


However,

10-13 more years of Bogosian > 1.5 more years of mid-30-ish Pavel Datsyuk

for an organization such as Winnipeg, so yes, I expect that would be out of the question.


Edit: as an aside, Philadelphia has an identical need for a player like Bogosian, has better valued assets in their organization than anything Detroit's got (Couturier, Schenn), and a history of going well out of its way to acquire physical "name" defensemen. Why in God's name would they allow the Red Wings to acquire a player like Bogosian without overbidding them drastically?

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01-19-2013, 01:47 AM
  #321
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Ya, Ericsson is only an OK D man, but ive been spoiled watching really good ones for too long i guess
Considering Ericsson is only 15 months removed from nearly losing a spot in the lineup, I think your assessment is reasonable

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01-19-2013, 01:49 AM
  #322
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Well... now Helm...
He's a Winnipeg boy, right?

Helm + Nyquist + Quincey for Bogo + 2nd

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01-19-2013, 11:37 AM
  #323
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I'd take Boumeester over Zach Bogosian 7 days a week and twice on Easter Sunday. Bogo is severely overrated. He's a top 2 on a bad team and a top 4 at best on a good team. Boumeester is a #1 on most teams.

I cringed at the first rumor that Holland was interested in Bogosian. I hope this rumor is BS.

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01-19-2013, 11:42 AM
  #324
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I'd take Boumeester over Zach Bogosian 7 days a week and twice on Easter Sunday. Bogo is severely overrated. He's a top 2 on a bad team and a top 4 at best on a good team. Boumeester is a #1 on most teams.

I cringed at the first rumor that Holland was interested in Bogosian. I hope this rumor is BS.
Lol

You obviously haven't watched Bogosian much. The kid is a phenomenal player and has immense upside. At this point, I think Bouwmeester is very underrated due to his contract, but I would take Bogosian over him every time.

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01-19-2013, 11:43 AM
  #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golffuul View Post
Detroit overpaying with that one.

I wouldn't give more than one of Quincey/Kindl, one of Andersson/Nyquist/Pare, and 3rd rounder. That's a top 4 d-man..an A prospect and a 3rd rounder in 2013 or a 2nd in 2014.
That's such an overpayment the Winnipeg laughs and hangs up

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