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01-18-2013, 06:31 PM
  #26
Deuce Awesome
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
most are well aware of Ben Scrivens, doesn't stop him from being a bad option to start
I find it somewhat funny that the Leafs fans are quite fine to start the season with two unproven goalies, and are also fine with a rebuild/tank process, yet Canucks fans tell us that its a terrible decision.


Keep Luongo and please take jim Hughson and Craig Simpson back. We'll even throw in a hamburger.

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01-18-2013, 06:33 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
So I'm not even sure if this would be legal under the CBA, but allow me to think outside the box for a second.

- Assuming Florida is out of it by the deadline, we trade them our 1st + 3rd for Weiss as a rental.
- Then after using him for our potential cup run, he becomes a UFA and is free to re-sign in Florida.
- Then at the draft we trade Luongo to Florida for Drew Shore, FLA 2nd and our picks back.

In the end we would get Shore and a 2nd, as well as both Weiss and Luongo for our playoff run. Florida would end up with Luongo for Shore and a 2nd, and presumably a better draft pick by finishing out their season without Weiss.

Might not be practical, but does anyone else like this in theory? I'm just tired of the Leafs/Nucks bickering that these threads have devolved into, thought I'd switch it up.
Not a chance of this happening.

Luongo doesn't have the value Nucks and their fans want him to. Color me not surprised. Course, everyone said 'you'll see..' Still waiting.

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Old
01-18-2013, 06:38 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Deuce Awesome View Post
I find it somewhat funny that the Leafs fans are quite fine to start the season with two unproven goalies, and are also fine with a rebuild/tank process, yet Canucks fans tell us that its a terrible decision.


Keep Luongo and please take jim Hughson and Craig Simpson back. We'll even throw in a hamburger.
I think the Leafs are better of going the Oiler route, but that would actually include moving guys like Lupul. They have no need for a #1 goalie unless making the playoffs is a goal. I'd say the goal is finish bottom 5 and not the former.

What is actually funny is anyone speaking for an entire fanbase. The only thing all Leafs fans have in common is they are Leafs fans.

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01-18-2013, 06:46 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Deuce Awesome View Post
I find it somewhat funny that the Leafs fans are quite fine to start the season with two unproven goalies, and are also fine with a rebuild/tank process, yet Canucks fans tell us that its a terrible decision.


Keep Luongo and please take jim Hughson and Craig Simpson back. We'll even throw in a hamburger.
No difference to other teams being concerned about our future cap situation, even though we have multiple ways to shed cap easily.

I don't agree with tank rebuilding personally, but that's fine if leaf fans are fine with it. I was responding to someone who said that another poster didn't know anything about Scrivens when he implied that playing Scrivens meant finishing in the lottery which seems exactly where you want to end up.
no thanks to your proposal though


Last edited by LPH: 01-18-2013 at 06:48 PM. Reason: seemed a bit bitter
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Old
01-18-2013, 06:50 PM
  #30
Deuce Awesome
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
I think the Leafs are better of going the Oiler route, but that would actually include moving guys like Lupul. They have no need for a #1 goalie unless making the playoffs is a goal. I'd say the goal is finish bottom 5 and not the former.

What is actually funny is anyone speaking for an entire fanbase. The only thing all Leafs fans have in common is they are Leafs fans.
Of course I can't speak for the entire fanbase, but based on the talk out of the toronto based sports programs (and there are plenty) is that the "patient, not trading away young players" approach of Dave Nonis has been met with a sigh of relief.

Burke tried his "rebuild on the fly" method, which was questioned by a lot of fans to start with, and it did not work out.

Toronto has needed a proper rebuild for the better part of a decade, and it was ignored by management who thought they could just keep going in a salary cap era the way they did prior, and it hasn't worked.

Starting Ben Scrivens in net says that this is a young team with no expectations on them.

Starting Luongo at the cost of Gardiner/Kadri is just more of the perennial 9th place finishing team that we have gotten used to.

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Old
01-18-2013, 06:53 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
No difference to other teams being concerned about our future cap situation, even though we have multiple ways to shed cap easily.

I don't agree with tank rebuilding personally, but that's fine if leaf fans are fine with it. I was responding to someone who said that another poster didn't know anything about Scrivens when he implied that playing Scrivens meant finishing in the lottery which seems exactly where you want to end up.
no thanks to your proposal though
We do want to finish in the lottery.

Even if we did aquire Luongo we still aren't good enough to beat Boston, Philly or you guys.

The only way to get franchise players is to draft them.


(One of the reasons I didnt want Luongo was because I didn't want to hear Hughson's "Grrrrreat Saaaave Luongo" every Saturday night)

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01-18-2013, 06:57 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Deuce Awesome View Post
We do want to finish in the lottery.

Even if we did aquire Luongo we still aren't good enough to beat Boston, Philly or you guys.

The only way to get franchise players is to draft them.


(One of the reasons I didnt want Luongo was because I didn't want to hear Hughson's "Grrrrreat Saaaave Luongo" every Saturday night)
I find myself agreeing with what you're saying. An Edmonton style rebuild is a tough thing to go through, but at least you can look towards the future. I don't envy the position you guys are in, so good luck. Who knows, roles might be reversed in a little while once the Sedins retire

Greeeeeaaaaattt saaaaaavvveee Luongo

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Old
01-18-2013, 07:07 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Deuce Awesome View Post
We do want to finish in the lottery.

Even if we did aquire Luongo we still aren't good enough to beat Boston, Philly or you guys.

The only way to get franchise players is to draft them.


(One of the reasons I didnt want Luongo was because I didn't want to hear Hughson's "Grrrrreat Saaaave Luongo" every Saturday night)
So you'd prefer to hear: "and another shot over reimer's glove hand. Now it's five nothing bruins"

I don't think edmonton ever set out to tank. They just really sucked.

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Old
01-18-2013, 07:08 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
How many times under Burke & Nonis did we hear that the "next guy" is going to be "the guy".
Lol....pretty sure Nonis hasn't labeled him "the guy". He just happens to be one of our goalies.

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01-18-2013, 07:10 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
most are well aware of Ben Scrivens, doesn't stop him from being a bad option to start
At least we didn't have to cough up a lung to get him.

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Old
01-18-2013, 07:15 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
So you'd prefer to hear: "and another shot over reimer's glove hand. Now it's five nothing bruins"

I don't think edmonton ever set out to tank. They just really sucked.



As long as I am seeing progress amongst the kids, I am fine with it.

We have a defence first coach which should make goaltending a little easier then it was under Ronnie "run and gun" Wilson.

I don't see whats so hard to understand. The Leafs haven't made the playoffs in years, its nothing new. Its not "win or else" its "lets get to the point where we can win

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Old
01-18-2013, 07:21 PM
  #37
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So you'd prefer to hear: "and another shot over reimer's glove hand. Now it's five nothing bruins"

I don't think edmonton ever set out to tank. They just really sucked.
Hey fellas....news flash, we know we suck. We know Luongo has better stats then our goalies. We know we areb't projected by anyone to make the playoffs......we got it. You guys continually saying it isn't some great revalation.

We also know you'd like the Leafs to deal a premium package for Luongo.

The last thing we know...the price is to dam high.

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01-18-2013, 07:31 PM
  #38
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Let this thread die; we will revisit this conversation in a decade.

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Old
01-18-2013, 07:33 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Hey fellas....news flash, we know we suck. We know Luongo has better stats then our goalies. We know we areb't projected by anyone to make the playoffs......we got it. You guys continually saying it isn't some great revalation.

We also know you'd like the Leafs to deal a premium package for Luongo.

The last thing we know...the price is to dam high.
Yeah; pretty much.

The only thing we can't all agree on is the mountain of value Vancouver fans see in the player they are desperate to remove off their roster (how many more posts do we need)?

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01-18-2013, 07:37 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by BayStBullies View Post
Yeah; pretty much.

The only thing we can't all agree on is the mountain of value Vancouver fans see in the player they are desperate to remove off their roster (how many more posts do we need)?
What? You can't see why he shouldn't be gifted to your team?

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Old
01-18-2013, 07:44 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
How many times under Burke & Nonis did we hear that the "next guy" is going to be "the guy".
I've never claimed either Reimer or Scrivens are destined for greatness. I think Leafs fans will be happy with adequate right now.

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Old
01-18-2013, 07:49 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by BayStBullies View Post
Let this thread die; we will revisit this conversation in a decade.
This thread is about Luongo.
If Leafs fans want it to die then just leave.

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Old
01-18-2013, 07:51 PM
  #43
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Didn't want to have this bit of news lost in the last thread:


Posted by Vanwest:


Quote:
Gillis today on whether he is asking too much for Luongo:

"When asked if he wanted too much in return, Gillis went at the media and the Leafs.
“Fair value is different for every team that you speak to because they have different players, they have different concerns and different contractual issues that play into what they have available that you might want,” Gillis said.

“The notion that we were asking for too much was floated in the Toronto media by a team that was extremely interested in acquiring Roberto and were using every means possible to try and force us to do something that we didn’t think was right."

“That’s nothing new in this business and it’s’ not the type of pressure that I’m going to succumb too.”"


After this was said, I was curious as to what the TOR media response would be, and someone else posted something interesting in the VAN forums. They said that Dreger pulled a 180 on air and started to downplay the worth of Bozak + Kadri + 2nd. Where before he was touting it as too much. Is this accurate?





On a related note:


Gallagher on the radio said that VAN/TOR had a deal in place at the draft, but Gillis took it to Luongo and Luongo said that he should prod FLA more because he wants to go there. So there is a reticence to go to TOR when FLA is still an option.

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01-18-2013, 07:53 PM
  #44
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He's simply not proven as a number 1 goalie, being a back up and playing a few times per month does not make one a starting goalie. He hasn't proven he can be a great number 1 over an entire season. So obviously there is uncertainty there even if most Canucks fans say otherwise.

I'm more confident with Luongo as the number 1 even right now. I don't care he was replaced for 2 playoff games, that was to spark the team IMO not because Luongo played poorly. Roberto Luongo is a proven top 5-10 at this point number 1 goalie that can carry a hockey team. Schneider has potential to one day be like that but he may not!

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01-18-2013, 07:54 PM
  #45
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What? You can't see why he shouldn't be gifted to your team?
The Leafs didn't ask for a gift, they offered what they could afford...got turned down and have moved on. Now your GM and alot of your fanbase are acting like a jilted lover because we won't sell the farm.

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01-18-2013, 07:56 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce Awesome View Post
I find it somewhat funny that the Leafs fans are quite fine to start the season with two unproven goalies, and are also fine with a rebuild/tank process, yet Canucks fans tell us that its a terrible decision.

Keep Luongo and please take jim Hughson and Craig Simpson back. We'll even throw in a hamburger.
Some leafs fans. Some also want to trade for multiple vets. Some want to throw crazy money at Getzlaf and/or Perry in a few months...

Much akin to the head office of the leafs, there's no clear direction.

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01-18-2013, 07:58 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
The Leafs didn't ask for a gift, they offered what they could afford...got turned down and have moved on. Now your GM and alot of your fanbase are acting like a jilted lover because we won't sell the farm.
Yet it was a leaf fan who I was quoting, selective memory much?

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Old
01-18-2013, 07:59 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Deuce Awesome View Post
We do want to finish in the lottery.

Even if we did aquire Luongo we still aren't good enough to beat Boston, Philly or you guys.

The only way to get franchise players is to draft them.


(One of the reasons I didnt want Luongo was because I didn't want to hear Hughson's "Grrrrreat Saaaave Luongo" every Saturday night)


First off fans do run much less play on the team. I assume leaf player have some dignity and they dont want to lose on purpose to "win" the draft. And yes ive read your boards.


Second it take a lot more than Mackinnon/Jones/Drouin/Barkov to beat Boston/Philly et al. In fact several thing will have to happen for those roles to reverse.

Im also curious since TO fans have been selling the whole "tank to rebuild in order to win" philosophy is how many team have won a cup doing.

Im genuinely curious because i cant think of any. Even Chicago who is/was the flavour of the day for successful team building needed more than the draft.

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Old
01-18-2013, 08:00 PM
  #49
LickTheEnvelope
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Originally Posted by BayStBullies View Post
Yeah; pretty much.

The only thing we can't all agree on is the mountain of value Vancouver fans see in the player they are desperate to remove off their roster (how many more posts do we need)?
1 decent 2nd liner and a pick is a mountain of a value for an all-star goalie with a bad contract?

Drastically unproven goalies are going for multiple top 3 round picks...

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Old
01-18-2013, 08:06 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Ben Scrivens was the AHl's best goalie last season.
And he's still the worst goalie that will play on opening night.

Worst goaltending in the NHL over the last 5 years and the answer is Ben Scrivens? What a pitiful offseason for Burke and co. Forget Luongo, at least get Dan Cloutier on a PTO.

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