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Penguins 2013 (and beyond) lineup discussion | Contract chart in Post #1

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01-18-2013, 04:58 PM
  #951
KIRK
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Clowe is the guy Shero should target in a trade. The right age, the right game, the right salary level... and a team that will probably be looking to shake up their roster a bit if they're not kicking ass in the WC.
I still say Shero may be better served targeting two guys, as well as defensive help, but Clowe most assuredly makes sense.

I wonder if he'd also target Murray and/or Boyle if San Jose were out of it and Paul Martin were, well, Paul Martin. Boyle has one more year at a steep 6.67M, but Letang still will be on his current deal, you could buyout Martin, and you'll have kids on rookie deals. Murray, we've discussed ad nauseum why he'd help in the playoffs.

Again, I think you look around the league and at what Shero has at his disposal in terms of assets, and it's pretty clear he can make a couple of high impact moves without emptying the cupboard.

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01-18-2013, 05:01 PM
  #952
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Thing is, the questions really isn't whether Shero can make deals this time. He's got the assets, and he'd have the ability to add like 25M in prorated payroll at the deadline. The real question is whether he'd go for it.

My other target remains Kulemin if/when Toronto is out of it, unless Tangradi really pans out. Beyond the usual reasons cited, the cap hit is workable, and it would be another incentive for Geno to stay (not that it necessarily matters).

Can't speak for anyone else, but a top four of Kunitz-Sid-Iginla, Kulemin-Geno-Neal, Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis, and Glass-Vitale-Kennedy (a) would be sweet and (b) would park Craig Adams where he rightfully belongs.
You can add me to the Kulemin list. Even with his 7g season last year, I would love to have him for his all around 2way play. I expect to see him closer to a 20g+ pace this year.

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01-18-2013, 05:06 PM
  #953
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You can add me to the Kulemin list. Even with his 7g season last year, I would love to have him for his all around 2way play. I expect to see him closer to a 20g+ pace this year.
He should be. Thing is, IF Toronto would move him in a deal for pieces, I'd think they'd be wanting something like Tangradi, Harrington, and a 2nd (in this deep draft). I suspect that would invite a deep division of opinion here.

There are other options. But, in the end, whoever Shero got, I just look at it and say 'Sid and Geno, both with two good wingers each' . . . nobody can match up against that. Then, a third line of Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis would be a true checking line that could contribute offensively. Even a fourth line of Glass-Vitale-Kennedy would be a true energy line.

All of the lines would make sense to anyone who looked at them . . . anyone, I suppose, except for Dan Bylsma given the absence of Craig Adams.

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01-18-2013, 05:10 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post

I wonder if he'd also target Murray and/or Boyle if San Jose were out of it and Paul Martin were, well, Paul Martin. Boyle has one more year at a steep 6.67M, but Letang still will be on his current deal, you could buyout Martin, and you'll have kids on rookie deals.
i've long been a fan of Boyle-Letang tandem for this season and the next. and it's been discussed quite a bit on this forum. but how about Markov? i can't see the Habs making the playoffs and the period from now till whenever the deadline is should be enough for him to prove that he's healthy.

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01-18-2013, 05:15 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by Lost in Crafton View Post
i've long been a fan of Boyle-Letang tandem for this season and the next. and it's been discussed quite a bit on this forum. but how about Markov? i can't see the Habs making the playoffs and the period from now till whenever the deadline is should be enough for him to prove that he's healthy.
I wouldn't trust Markov's health.

What's the consensus feeling on Boyle been in the discussions?

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01-18-2013, 05:24 PM
  #956
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I wouldn't trust Markov's health.

What's the consensus feeling on Boyle been in the discussions?
split down the middle. plenty of strong support and a good deal of strong opposition.

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01-18-2013, 05:41 PM
  #957
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Originally Posted by Lost in Crafton View Post
split down the middle. plenty of strong support and a good deal of strong opposition.
Fair enough.

New question, based on a reaction I saw from a Habs fan on the trade forum to an offer for Subban of Orpik, Harrington or Pouliot, and a 1st. The Habs fan said substitute Despres for Orpik. So, here's the question:

Would you trade Despres, Harrington, and a 1st for Subban?

This assumes that a reasonable deal is there to be done with Subban. It would mean still having about 7-8M in salary (prorated) that you could add at the deadline. And, it would mean moving/buying out Martin after the season for cap reasons.

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01-18-2013, 05:54 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Fair enough.

New question, based on a reaction I saw from a Habs fan on the trade forum to an offer for Subban of Orpik, Harrington or Pouliot, and a 1st. The Habs fan said substitute Despres for Orpik. So, here's the question:

Would you trade Despres, Harrington, and a 1st for Subban?

This assumes that a reasonable deal is there to be done with Subban. It would mean still having about 7-8M in salary (prorated) that you could add at the deadline. And, it would mean moving/buying out Martin after the season for cap reasons.
Zero interest in Subban. He's a right shot and mediocre in his own end.

Also, including Harrington in a trade proposal means I need to put you on notice. Harrington is the solution MT was trying to find.

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01-18-2013, 05:57 PM
  #959
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Zero interest in Subban. He's a right shot and mediocre in his own end.

Also, including Harrington in a trade proposal means I need to put you on notice. Harrington is the solution MT was trying to find.
Well done . . .

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01-18-2013, 06:00 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Fair enough.

New question, based on a reaction I saw from a Habs fan on the trade forum to an offer for Subban of Orpik, Harrington or Pouliot, and a 1st. The Habs fan said substitute Despres for Orpik. So, here's the question:

Would you trade Despres, Harrington, and a 1st for Subban?

This assumes that a reasonable deal is there to be done with Subban. It would mean still having about 7-8M in salary (prorated) that you could add at the deadline. And, it would mean moving/buying out Martin after the season for cap reasons.
depends what a reasonable deal for Subban looks like. I know the guy is a bit of a jag, but I don't get how anyone wouldn't want him on this team. If he's looking for too much money though, we just can't have 2 big money d-men, 2 bigger money centers and still pay the wings we all want.

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01-18-2013, 06:08 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
depends what a reasonable deal for Subban looks like. I know the guy is a bit of a jag, but I don't get how anyone wouldn't want him on this team. If he's looking for too much money though, we just can't have 2 big money d-men, 2 bigger money centers and still pay the wings we all want.
That's kind of where I fall. I think he costs you Despres, a prospect, and a 1st, or something in that ballpark.

Like you, I don't get why people wouldn't want him on the team. It would take one punch to Giroux's head or slew foot of Hartnell to make the guy a fan favorite.

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01-18-2013, 06:25 PM
  #962
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
That's kind of where I fall. I think he costs you Despres, a prospect, and a 1st, or something in that ballpark.

Like you, I don't get why people wouldn't want him on the team. It would take one punch to Giroux's head or slew foot of Hartnell to make the guy a fan favorite.
I'm talking about salary too.

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01-18-2013, 06:35 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
But, in the end, whoever Shero got, I just look at it and say 'Sid and Geno, both with two good wingers each' . . . nobody can match up against that. Then, a third line of Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis would be a true checking line that could contribute offensively. Even a fourth line of Glass-Vitale-Kennedy would be a true energy line.
I'd honestly be content if they both had 1.5 competent top 6 wingers. So Neal and Kunitz, and two more players somewhat close to them who can complement them. They don't need to be allstars.

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01-18-2013, 06:40 PM
  #964
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I'd honestly be content if they both had 1.5 competent top 6 wingers. So Neal and Kunitz, and two more players somewhat close to them who can complement them. They don't need to be allstars.
No, but better than Tangradi and Despres.

Kulemin and Clowe would work for me . . .

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01-18-2013, 06:43 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I'm talking about salary too.
I knew. Word is he's asking 6M+ multi-year and Montreal is offering just over 3M on a two year deal. IMO, I think his number probably is around 4.5-5M based on the market and the term.

Also, as noted, to the Orpik, Harrington, and 1st for Subban offer, one said 'change Orpik to Despres' and another just said to Despres, Harrington, and a 1st 'I think I'd do that'. That's it for replies so far.

EDIT: Another one said it seemed to make sense in terms of both teams' needs.


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01-18-2013, 06:45 PM
  #966
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
No, but better than Tangradi and Despres.

Kulemin and Clowe would work for me . . .
Crosby likes Kunitz and Dupuis as his wingers, he likes their skating and they have chemsitry.

I want to see what Tangradi can do before we write him off, I think he can be a Ryan Malone type of player, maybe a Milan Lucic. Not saying he will be as good as either of them, but adding his style of play seems like a plus for this team.

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01-18-2013, 06:59 PM
  #967
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Surprised most people wouldn't take the deal for Subban. You are getting a young player who has proven he's ready for the NHL despite his immaturity issues (plus if you read the Habs board most think he was the most solid defensively last year outside of Gorges) without giving up one of your "core" and without completely gutting your prospect pool. Even if he can't play with Letang, a Orpik-Letang pair and a Martin-Subban pair is a lot better than what we have right now.

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01-18-2013, 07:20 PM
  #968
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Originally Posted by Pitt's Best #87 #66 View Post
Surprised most people wouldn't take the deal for Subban. You are getting a young player who has proven he's ready for the NHL despite his immaturity issues (plus if you read the Habs board most think he was the most solid defensively last year outside of Gorges) without giving up one of your "core" and without completely gutting your prospect pool. Even if he can't play with Letang, a Orpik-Letang pair and a Martin-Subban pair is a lot better than what we have right now.
1. I think Subban could (and would) play with Letang.

2. Look at the organization's defensive prospects. Leaving Dumoulin out, I think there's really a big five: Despres, Harrington, Morrow, Pouliot, and Matta. I suspect, if you asked Ray Shero to rank them in terms of long term value to the organization, then Despres and Harrington would rank as the bottom two. Just a guess here, of course . . .

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01-18-2013, 07:21 PM
  #969
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Crosby likes Kunitz and Dupuis as his wingers, he likes their skating and they have chemsitry.

I want to see what Tangradi can do before we write him off, I think he can be a Ryan Malone type of player, maybe a Milan Lucic. Not saying he will be as good as either of them, but adding his style of play seems like a plus for this team.
There's a difference between liking Dupuis and needing better when the playoffs come. That should have been apparent in the 2010 and 2012 playoffs.

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01-18-2013, 07:26 PM
  #970
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I really don't think Dupuis is that bad on Sid's wing to the point that we absolutely need to find a better solution ASAP. It's a line that works, sure we can find a better winger, maybe Bennett becomes that guy. But it's not a necessity to find Sid a better winger this year, unless some are being shopped relatively cheap at the deadline, but I doubt that.

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01-18-2013, 07:31 PM
  #971
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I'd take Subban in a heart beat just to watch him **** with Giroux every time we play them.

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01-18-2013, 07:31 PM
  #972
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
I really don't think Dupuis is that bad on Sid's wing to the point that we absolutely need to find a better solution ASAP. It's a line that works, sure we can find a better winger, maybe Bennett becomes that guy. But it's not a necessity to find Sid a better winger this year, unless some are being shopped relatively cheap at the deadline, but I doubt that.
No, I don't either. What I think is you deadline shop for Sid and, if need be, Geno. That's why I suggested Iginla/Clowe for Sid and Kulemin/Clowe for Geno.

Dupuis works fine for the regular season. Bennett, I think, could be a long term answer. But, Sid will need better this year, IMO.

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01-18-2013, 07:37 PM
  #973
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I'd take Subban in a heart beat just to watch him **** with Giroux every time we play them.
That thought did not escape me when I made the proposal, nor did the thought that if he ***** with Giroux first, then the Flyers will be so busy trying to kill him that they won't have as much time to focus on ******* with Sid and Geno.

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01-18-2013, 07:53 PM
  #974
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I'd take Subban in a heart beat just to watch him **** with Giroux every time we play them.
That's Brooks Orpik/Deryk Engelland's job.

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01-18-2013, 07:59 PM
  #975
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I wouldn't be thrilled at shelling out the $6 million-plus offer sheet Subban apparently is looking for, never mind going the other route and trading assets just to land his rights.

Because of the cap space saved from the Staal and Michalek trades, Shero will have the most (short-term) financial flexibility since he made the Hossa deal, which is coming up on five (!) years ago. Rather than rush into a big deal, I'd like to see them play a few months here and see what they have and then make trades accordingly at or near the deadline.

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