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Are the Oilers scouts as good as we think?

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Old
01-18-2013, 08:59 PM
  #1
rockinghockey
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Are the Oilers scouts as good as we think?

Over the last few years Oiler fans have been raving about how great the Oiler's scouting staff has been.

But are they really that good?

Anyone could of taken Hall, RNH and Yak when the have the 1st over all pick but what about other picks that they said were so great but they really don't seem to be?

Pitlick not developing so well
Hamilton not developing so well
Lander not developing so well
Morrow should they really have taken him

Are we over rating out scouting staff?

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01-18-2013, 09:30 PM
  #2
IV XIV XCI
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Cherry picking a bit maybe.

Also, might need a bit more time to tell.

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01-18-2013, 09:34 PM
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CornKicker
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sam gagner, petry, at least these guy belong in the nhl, not like steve kelly, bosignore ninimaki, mikhinov, etc etc tectetctetctect

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01-18-2013, 09:42 PM
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Asher
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Originally Posted by CornKicker View Post
sam gagner, petry, at least these guy belong in the nhl, not like steve kelly, bosignore ninimaki, mikhinov, etc etc tectetctetctect
You're comparing the current scouting staff to a guy who literally did his job from a beach in Mexico. I'd like to think we can set the bar a little higher than that.

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01-18-2013, 10:47 PM
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stratedge
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Nope, they're not.

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01-18-2013, 10:55 PM
  #6
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Definitely near the bottom of the league in scouting; but this has always been the Oilers way. I wonder if its the scouting or too much micromanaging from above.

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01-18-2013, 10:55 PM
  #7
Aerchon
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Jury is still out.

I forget is Eberle one from our current staff? I think so. If so just that one pick puts them in pretty good shape moving forward.

Any team is lucky to gewt get 1 or 2 NHL players per year and often those players do not even end up playing for the team that drafted them.

MP should be an NHL player.
Harti should be an NHL player
All our #1's should be NHL players.
Eberle is a stupendous pick.
I think Klefbom is all but a shoe in for the NHL.
And we have at least 6 others that only time will tell.

Petry is the last scouting group? None too shabby.
Dub as well.
Gagner is an NHL player although how good is questionable.

At the very least I think we can say it doesn't suck and has the potnetial to be mind blowingly good. Need another 3 years tho.

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01-18-2013, 10:58 PM
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Petro Points
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
Over the last few years Oiler fans have been raving about how great the Oiler's scouting staff has been.

But are they really that good?

Anyone could of taken Hall, RNH and Yak when the have the 1st over all pick but what about other picks that they said were so great but they really don't seem to be?

Pitlick not developing so well
Hamilton not developing so well
Lander not developing so well
Morrow should they really have taken him

Are we over rating out scouting staff?
guys taken right after Pitlick : Knight, Mcfarland, Dalton Smith
After Hamilton: Pikard, Jarnkrok, Brickley
After Lander: Budish, Oliver-Roussel, Wrenn
?? Morrow??

Oilers may not be getting steals of the draft but that doesnt mean they are worse than any other organization..

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01-18-2013, 10:58 PM
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molsonmuscle360
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Hard to tell so far, the sure fire picks are more or less given to them. Klefbom, Marincin, Bunz will be the first idea of how good they are. It probably takes 5-10 years before you get a feel for how good scouts really are.

Edit: And don't forget Ebs, he is probably one of the best mid 20's draft pick in a long time.

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01-18-2013, 11:07 PM
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Mr Sakich
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Klefbom was a home run. he might turn out as good as Shultz.

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01-18-2013, 11:17 PM
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Herman72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
And don't forget Ebs, he is probably one of the best mid 20's draft pick in a long time.
Fun fact about the 22nd overall pick: In a three year stretch players taken 22nd overall were Pacioretty, Claude Giroux and Ebs.

Not making a point about anything, I just find it interesting.

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01-18-2013, 11:23 PM
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TheBusDriver
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Too soon to tell. Eberle has been an amazing pick though. Stunning.

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01-18-2013, 11:29 PM
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Tyrolean
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Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
Klefbom was a home run. he might turn out as good as Shultz.
He hasn't proven anything yet at the Pro level.

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01-18-2013, 11:37 PM
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Niet
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This might be cherry picking, you decide. Eberle has played more games than all of the mighty Detroit Redwings' draft picks since the 2007 draft combined.

This isn't a knock on the Redwings, who have had an incredible record drafting, but that it is, particularly in the later rounds, massive hit and miss even for the best. They have guys such as Tatar and Smith who are highly touted, but have still yet to really play in the NHL. In the end I think it's too early to disregard our late round draft picks, but the reality is most late round draft picks don't work out.


Last edited by Niet: 01-18-2013 at 11:43 PM.
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01-18-2013, 11:38 PM
  #15
CupofOil
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Way too early to tell. A lot of Stu's picks are still developing so the jury is still out on a lot of them.
This is typical HF overreaction.

There was too much praise of Stu a couple of years ago when a lot of his non first rounders were tracking well in junior and now there's too much criticism of him because these same prospects are struggling early in their pro careers.

The point is.... Just chill and let these guys develop before declaring them homerun picks or busts. It's going to take time to properly evaluate a lot of his picks.

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01-18-2013, 11:53 PM
  #16
TheBusDriver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
Klefbom was a home run. he might turn out as good as Shultz.
Waaaaay too early to call Klefbom a home run

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01-19-2013, 12:05 AM
  #17
I am the Liquor
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People's expectations are way out of whack.

They expect every pick to turn into an nhl player.

It just doesnt work like that.

I think you are doing pretty good if 20% of your picks play in the nhl.

People also say a monkey could pick first overall, but there were many debates about Seguin, Couturier, Larsson, Murray, Grigorenko, etc. So far it looks like they got those picks right, which, if others had their way, they may not have.

It will probably be a few more years before we can properly answer a question such as this.

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01-19-2013, 12:09 AM
  #18
SephF
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The Eberle pick should be credited to Lorne Davis who was in the organization long before MacGregor came around, he passed away in 2007 before Ebs was drafted but he was really pushing for him long before his draft year.

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01-19-2013, 12:52 AM
  #19
Burnt Biscuits
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niet View Post
This might be cherry picking, you decide. Eberle has played more games than all of the mighty Detroit Redwings' draft picks since the 2007 draft combined.

This isn't a knock on the Redwings, who have had an incredible record drafting, but that it is, particularly in the later rounds, massive hit and miss even for the best. They have guys such as Tatar and Smith who are highly touted, but have still yet to really play in the NHL. In the end I think it's too early to disregard our late round draft picks, but the reality is most late round draft picks don't work out.
A 5 year window is a reasonable time frame to look back at how a draft went, but with Detroit they are always very patient on the development side of things and they are big advocate of players beign over-ripe, where as most teams just look at it is- Is this player ready to contribute?; if the answer is yes they play. For Detroit I'd probably back the window up a bit further.

Personally when I am looking at a team with strong drafting I am looking towards Ottawa right now.

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01-19-2013, 01:11 AM
  #20
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Interesting list ( in defence of Klefbom being a likely stud).

The last 10 years of WJC first team all star defence (plus for good NHL'er, minus for not regardless of reason):
Jaybo +, Knyazev -, Colaiacovo+, Pitkanen +, Lepisto-, Phaneuf +, Phaneuf+, Ryan Suter +, Bourdon even (passed away), Jack Johnson +, Kris Letang +, Erik Johnson +, Doughty +, Hedman +, Erik Karlsson +, PK Subban +, Pietrangelo +, John Carlson -, Ryan Ellis +, Orlov +

Then Gormley and Klefbom

16/19 (not counting Bourdon).

Odds look good for Klefbom IMO

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Old
01-19-2013, 01:13 AM
  #21
DousedInOil
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Man, scouts get a bad wrap. I mean, how are they supposed to predict the future? They don't know how a guy is going to develop. I think teams focus too much responsibility on drafting and not enough of development. I don't know how you could fault our scouts for guys like PRV, Lander, Marincin and Klefbom don't make it. It's not like they could have done more research to prevent slumps. At some point during their development they showed why they were drafted where they were.

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01-19-2013, 01:57 AM
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WeridAl
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In OKC last year the team had to win to try to bring the fans out and the veterans were played more. The Barons were also loaded with veteran C's and LW's, thus Pitlick and Hamilton did not see that much ice time. This year with the lockout, the same thing happened. It was bad time to be a rookie C or LW with the Barons.

Pitlick has perform some nights and some nights he's been the best Baron on the ice. This year he has been snake bit, given some ice time and steady line mates things should improve.

With Hamilton I don't know what has happened, defensively he has been sound. Some nights it has looked like he's been more worried about his defensive game then anything.

I haven't been a big fan of Nelson's and I wonder if some of the blame can be placed on him.

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Old
01-19-2013, 02:03 AM
  #23
nexttothemoon
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I certainly would have chosen some of the picks differently (not that I'm better than an NHL pro scout)... but pro scouts obviously are only human as well just like everyone else.

No team has every high draft pick make it to the NHL... not even close.

They spend all year working and watching to try and assess talent... not only in the present but trying to project that talent forward many years into the future. Not an easy task when dealing with 18 year olds (and even 17 year olds sometimes).

Like others have said #1 is pretty much a no-brainer... it's those 2nd rounders and 3rd rounders that are what separates the good from the mediocre scouting staffs.

Personally I would have drafted Kucherov in the 2nd round over Musil (they went with the safe pick and I understand that) and I would have drafted anyone but Moroz ... who went way too early.

Pitlick was the consensus BPA pick at that time though... if he busts so be it. If players like Hamilton, Martindale, Lander etc all bust... well bad luck but hard to predict the future. They all seemed like decent picks at the time.

In the end... like it or not this Oilers scouting staff will be remembered for those #1 picks and if they all turn out extremely well, few will focus on the failures further down the line.

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Old
01-19-2013, 02:16 AM
  #24
SK13
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It's difficult to say because of the five year rule, and that we're only now in the fifth year of the MacGregor era. Right now, I only have issues with projection picks in the second round (Moroz being the only major offender). The third round yields about 2-5% NHL regulars. Swinging for a depth piece or a role player, even though it's uglier for the fans, isn't an issue because the skill players in those round almost never amount to anything. I mean, you could say "but we might get an Adam Henrique", yeah, but in 10 years of shooting for that you'll probably have nothing to show for it because not every draft has a Henrique in the third round, and almost none have several.

2008 yielded a star forward from 22nd and likely a top-9 NHLer in Teemu Hartikainen with no second or third round picks. It was a positive day for the Oilers, no doubt. This is the one we can comfortably judge with finality. Early returns are multiple NHLers out of 2009 and 2010.

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Old
01-19-2013, 02:18 AM
  #25
zar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
Hard to tell so far, the sure fire picks are more or less given to them. Klefbom, Marincin, Bunz will be the first idea of how good they are. It probably takes 5-10 years before you get a feel for how good scouts really are.

Edit: And don't forget Ebs, he is probably one of the best mid 20's draft pick in a long time.
Agreed.

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