HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The thread in which I invite people to explain how AV hates young/skilled players

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-18-2013, 09:57 PM
  #26
putridgasbag
Grand Poohba
 
putridgasbag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Comox Valley
Posts: 1,200
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Jackson View Post
This is true.

The trouble is, sometimes highly skilled players might cheat out of the zone or lose their man defensively, especially when they're learning the game. I don't think AV has any patience for that.

We saw an example of this last year. Vigneault was clearly never comfortable with...you know who, and felt better replacing him with a player like Pahlsson.

In that case, I think the cautious approach hurt the team's chances to win.

AV had nothing to do with trading the prodigy or the acquisition of Pahlsson. Last I heard GMs make the roster decisions and coaches make the lineup decisions. Gillis is the one who sent down Schroeder and kept Ebbett and he would be the one to trade the prodigy and bring in the aging vet.

putridgasbag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-18-2013, 10:12 PM
  #27
craigcaulks*
Registered Luser.
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: East Van!
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MW View Post
Okay, so this has been going on for a while, and it comes up at some point all over the place, so let's just have a thread where we can do this.

Please post, in as much detail as possible, explanations and examples that show your reasoning for why you believe that Alain Vigneault:
-Dislikes young players and does not give them a chance.
-Dislikes skilled players and instead favours lesser players.
-Is bad at developing young players.

Can we please do this instead of the usual flyby mentioning this in other threads?
My only complaint, and it's a big one, is that AV is slow to react to swings in a playoff series. We've never overcome a squirt of adversity with him at the helm.

craigcaulks* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-18-2013, 10:19 PM
  #28
Shareefruck
Registered User
 
Shareefruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,058
vCash: 500
I think it's idiotic too

Shareefruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-18-2013, 10:23 PM
  #29
Alan Jackson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by putridgasbag View Post
AV had nothing to do with trading the prodigy or the acquisition of Pahlsson. Last I heard GMs make the roster decisions and coaches make the lineup decisions. Gillis is the one who sent down Schroeder and kept Ebbett and he would be the one to trade the prodigy and bring in the aging vet.
I disagree. Vigneault has a great deal of input into personnel decisions, and without revisiting the events leading up to last year's trade deadline, let's just say the writing was on the wall. And Vigneault was holding the pen.

Clearly, the bucks stops wih Gillis, and he's the one making the final call, but let's not kid ourselves. Vigneault was right there in the war room. (Tossing a football, if I recall.)

Alan Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-18-2013, 10:41 PM
  #30
Outside99*
Sedins off Kas
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,347
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Jackson View Post
This is true.

The trouble is, sometimes highly skilled players might cheat out of the zone or lose their man defensively, especially when they're learning the game. I don't think AV has any patience for that.

We saw an example of this last year. Vigneault was clearly never comfortable with...you know who, and felt better replacing him with a player like Pahlsson.

In that case, I think the cautious approach hurt the team's chances to win.
You hit the nail right on the friggin' head. This is particularly true when you fall behind - you need those players who can put the puck in the net, regardless of their defensive deficiencies.

Although I have to come clean - I never liked this player, too much feeling of entitlement. I just like your concept which by the way another example of was Shirokov.


Last edited by Outside99*: 01-18-2013 at 11:05 PM. Reason: come clean
Outside99* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-18-2013, 11:07 PM
  #31
stevecanuck16
Registered User
 
stevecanuck16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,335
vCash: 500
Can I post some young players who have received great chances under AV and have flourished?

Raymond
Tanev
Schneider
Hodgson (who it can be argued did not even deserve his chance when he got it)
Weise

Even Grabner got a decent shot, he just had brutal training camps and never made the team outta camp.

stevecanuck16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2013, 12:10 AM
  #32
LeftCoast
Registered User
 
LeftCoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,799
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevecanuck16 View Post
Can I post some young players who have received great chances under AV and have flourished?

Raymond
Tanev
Schneider
Hodgson (who it can be argued did not even deserve his chance when he got it)
Weise

Even Grabner got a decent shot, he just had brutal training camps and never made the team outta camp.
Not to mention Bieksa, Edler, Rypien, Burrows, even Kesler was pretty young when AV took over. Hodgson was given a great opportunity as well and Kassian is getting his shot this year. Shirokov is probably the one player that deserved more of a shot than he got. Schroeder is going to get his shot this year, it's just a matter of asset management. Gillis doesn't want to waive a defenseman yet.

LeftCoast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2013, 12:17 AM
  #33
Tim Calhoun
Tim Calhoun
 
Join Date: May 2006
Country: Mexico
Posts: 8,138
vCash: 50
He hatees young playera and rightfully so: our prospects suck and will never be successful NHLers.

Tim Calhoun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2013, 12:20 AM
  #34
luongo321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 10,016
vCash: 500
he doesn't like young players with offensive flare.

luongo321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2013, 12:23 AM
  #35
MajorCanuck
Cup Please
 
MajorCanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Surrey, BC
Posts: 685
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by luongo321 View Post
he doesn't like young players with offensive flare.
Its not that he dislikes offense, its just that he likes defense a little more.

MajorCanuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2013, 12:25 AM
  #36
luongo321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 10,016
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorCanuck View Post
Its not that he dislikes offense, its just that he likes defense a little more.
yeah, he's a wuss. tries to play it too safe. HOLD THE LEAD HOLD THE LEAD. don't try to score! now do that for 1.5 periods against a potent offense! that chicago series still drives me mad. that was a couple years ago though. he's changed it up a bit. I'm sure MG would have told him to pack his bags if he didn't try to change his philosophy a bit, but it still won't leave AV.


Last edited by luongo321: 01-19-2013 at 12:34 AM.
luongo321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2013, 12:33 AM
  #37
Win One Before I Die
Former Booth Fan
 
Win One Before I Die's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,839
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Win One Before I Die
we love our ****** rookies too much

Win One Before I Die is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2013, 12:46 AM
  #38
Virtanen2Horvat
Radim Vrbata #17
 
Virtanen2Horvat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,769
vCash: 647
We need a new coach because clearly Schroeder deserves the Spot on the 2nd line more than Ebbett. If AV does not bring back Schroeder then we need to fire him cause I mean like Raymond and Schroeder they did it all against the Sedins and Burrows last night. Add Kassian with them he can defend them. All I can say is I am shocked. Anyways AV probably has no confidence in Schroeder. And if SCHROEDER IF YOU ARE READING THIS WE ARE 100% WITH YOU!

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Raymond-Schroeder-Kassian
Higgins-Lapierre-Hansen
Ebbett-Malhotra-Weise

Anyways AV probably has a different view and that is probably why Ebbett most likely has the job. We better win tomorrow.

Virtanen2Horvat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2013, 12:51 AM
  #39
MajorCanuck
Cup Please
 
MajorCanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Surrey, BC
Posts: 685
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksrool View Post
We need a new coach because clearly Schroeder deserves the Spot on the 2nd line more than Ebbett. If AV does not bring back Schroeder then we need to fire him cause I mean like Raymond and Schroeder they did it all against the Sedins and Burrows last night. Add Kassian with them he can defend them. All I can say is I am shocked. Anyways AV probably has no confidence in Schroeder. And if SCHROEDER IF YOU ARE READING THIS WE ARE 100% WITH YOU!

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Raymond-Schroeder-Kassian
Higgins-Lapierre-Hansen
Ebbett-Malhotra-Weise

Anyways AV probably has a different view and that is probably why Ebbett most likely has the job. We better win tomorrow.
I like shroeder, but come on, you want your coach fired because he wouldn't dress a prospect who may or may not become a successful NHLer? Its not like he is sitting a 21 year old crosby, who would most definitely be the face of the franchise for the next 15 years.

MajorCanuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2013, 12:59 AM
  #40
var
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 161
vCash: 500
By and large, AV is pretty fantastic. 9 times out of 10, you're much better off learning from what's he's doing than criticizing it.

var is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2013, 01:01 AM
  #41
Orca Smash
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,048
vCash: 500
I dont think hes opposed to young players, i think his style is give priority to consistent players and players hes familiar with. Eventually if they are consistent and play within his guidelines they win him over.

The person who said he is risk adverse hit the nail on the head, not always a bad thing, and sometimes i like it. He is not the type of guy though to give young star a top spot though. It would have been interesting to see how he handled schultz.

Orca Smash is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2013, 01:22 AM
  #42
stevecanuck16
Registered User
 
stevecanuck16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,335
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksrool View Post
We need a new coach because clearly Schroeder deserves the Spot on the 2nd line more than Ebbett. If AV does not bring back Schroeder then we need to fire him cause I mean like Raymond and Schroeder they did it all against the Sedins and Burrows last night. Add Kassian with them he can defend them. All I can say is I am shocked. Anyways AV probably has no confidence in Schroeder. And if SCHROEDER IF YOU ARE READING THIS WE ARE 100% WITH YOU!

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Raymond-Schroeder-Kassian
Higgins-Lapierre-Hansen
Ebbett-Malhotra-Weise

Anyways AV probably has a different view and that is probably why Ebbett most likely has the job. We better win tomorrow.
#firstworldhockeyproblems

stevecanuck16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2013, 01:26 AM
  #43
Bieksa#3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 533
vCash: 500
I guess we shouldn't be too surprised that Schroeder got sent back down when AV said that off ice matters could be the deciding point.

It's just such BS when they preach that you'll make and play on the team if you earn a spot. And then completely throw that out the window when a prospect like Schroeder outplays a bunch less deserving players ( Barker, Vandameer,volpatti, and even Ebbett

Bieksa#3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2013, 01:37 AM
  #44
craigcaulks*
Registered Luser.
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: East Van!
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksrool View Post
We need a new coach because clearly Schroeder deserves the Spot on the 2nd line more than Ebbett. If AV does not bring back Schroeder then we need to fire him cause I mean like Raymond and Schroeder they did it all against the Sedins and Burrows last night. Add Kassian with them he can defend them. All I can say is I am shocked. Anyways AV probably has no confidence in Schroeder. And if SCHROEDER IF YOU ARE READING THIS WE ARE 100% WITH YOU!

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Raymond-Schroeder-Kassian
Higgins-Lapierre-Hansen
Ebbett-Malhotra-Weise

Anyways AV probably has a different view and that is probably why Ebbett most likely has the job. We better win tomorrow.
I am going to try and appreciate that you are 14-16, but Schroeder/Ebbett isn't going to be the difference in a game tomorrow.

Yesterday was practice.

craigcaulks* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2013, 01:38 AM
  #45
Nash
Registered User
 
Nash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: North Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,920
vCash: 500
I know it's a shocking concept, but the young guys have to earn their ice time. How do they do that when AV is the coach? You make damn sure that your defensive game is acceptable. AV will always be a coach who expects his players to be defensively responsible first and foremost. I have no problem with that and I have no problem with prospects taking longer to develop that and make our team. They are better players for having that extra development time.

Nash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2013, 01:41 AM
  #46
stevecanuck16
Registered User
 
stevecanuck16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,335
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash View Post
I know it's a shocking concept, but the young guys have to earn their ice time. How do they do that when AV is the coach? You make damn sure that your defensive game is acceptable. AV will always be a coach who expects his players to be defensively responsible first and foremost. I have no problem with that and I have no problem with prospects taking longer to develop that and make our team. They are better players for having that extra development time.
See Detroit for a great example of this. And I think their record speaks for itself.

stevecanuck16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2013, 01:53 AM
  #47
Lonny Bohonos
Kassian = P.A.G.A.N
 
Lonny Bohonos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: United Nations
Posts: 8,427
vCash: 500
Has CDC invaded HF?

Lonny Bohonos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2013, 02:14 AM
  #48
putridgasbag
Grand Poohba
 
putridgasbag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Comox Valley
Posts: 1,200
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Jackson View Post
I disagree. Vigneault has a great deal of input into personnel decisions, and without revisiting the events leading up to last year's trade deadline, let's just say the writing was on the wall. And Vigneault was holding the pen.

Clearly, the bucks stops wih Gillis, and he's the one making the final call, but let's not kid ourselves. Vigneault was right there in the war room. (Tossing a football, if I recall.)
Well we are going to have to disagree because I doubt that AV has much to do with trades or most personnel decisions. Coaches coach who the GM gives him. Now a smart GM will try and give the coach players that he feels will work well with the coach and his systems but ultimately if Gillis wanted Schroeder instead of Ebbett to start the season then Schroeder would be here and Ebbet would be on waivers.

A smart coach will coach who the GM gives him because his job depends on it.

putridgasbag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2013, 02:56 AM
  #49
Virtanen2Horvat
Radim Vrbata #17
 
Virtanen2Horvat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,769
vCash: 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorCanuck View Post
I like shroeder, but come on, you want your coach fired because he wouldn't dress a prospect who may or may not become a successful NHLer? Its not like he is sitting a 21 year old crosby, who would most definitely be the face of the franchise for the next 15 years.
I get what you are saying but don't you think it would be time for a coaching change soon? I mean look at other teams they get turned around take LA and St. Louis anyways best of the luck to Ebbett but I really wanted to see what Schroeder could do.

Virtanen2Horvat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2013, 03:09 AM
  #50
The Optimist
Registered User
 
The Optimist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SFU
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,254
vCash: 400
Anyone else remember when he gave a 23 year old Bernier every opportunity to establish himself in the top 6?

The Optimist is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:44 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.