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Which one will Holland sign?

View Poll Results: Who does Holland sign?
Redden 30 32.97%
Gomez 0 0%
Both 13 14.29%
Neither 48 52.75%
Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-18-2013, 03:51 PM
  #76
RedWingsNow*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optimuspaul View Post
Edit: Just found out the Kindl is injured and CC is 100%



Even if Cola gets the 6th spot over Kindl, I think it's safe to assume there is going to be healthy amount of rotation. This is a contract year for Kindl and they have to decide whether or not to re-sign him, and you gotta think that Kindl is going to be more motivated to prove his worth to this team and the 29 other teams.
I think the fact that he's playing behind former Leafs superstars CC and Ian White, and Kyle Quincey and Jonny Ericsson... says the Wings have made their decision on Kindl.

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01-18-2013, 04:14 PM
  #77
Jurky
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I think the fact that he's playing behind former Leafs superstars CC and Ian White, and Kyle Quincey and Jonny Ericsson... says the Wings have made their decision on Kindl.
Perhaps, poor decision though if you ask me. He's never played a full season and IMO he has potential, he has all the tools but he's only played 106 games in the NHL after 6 years pro. If they cut him loose without giving him a proper test. I think he'll pull a Quincey and become a solid d man somewhere and down the road Kenny will trade a 1st to get him back

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Old
01-18-2013, 05:18 PM
  #78
Fugu
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I think that's entirely accurate.
I know everyone is big on Jonny E again, but he's still really flawed and he's very intense, nor does he use his size very well.

But Redden has never really been a defensive guy. Here's the scouting report from Forecaster/. Unfortunately, he fits in too well with the Wings:

ASSETS: Has excellent passing skills. Plays with ice water in his veins and never gets rattled. Is extremely durable and owns an accurate point shot. Is a solid puck mover.

FLAWS: Has regressed in his overall game with time. Tends to lack passion when he plays. Also lacks a physical game and doesn't initiate contact with any frequency.

CAREER POTENTIAL: Fading veteran puck-moving defenseman.
Maybe I'm desperate and flailing about.

I believe Kronwall is a top 2, but I don't think he's one of the best #1D in the league. He may be as good as Rafalski basically, before Raffy got too banged up.

Ericsson is in the top four because we have no better option. He's a decent skater going forward; he's flawed as a defensive skater (backwards, and laterally, around the net... where he shouldn't actually go half the time he chooses to go there). He should be serviceable on the PK, as a big body, good reach, but he MUST get more physical because he's not going to set the world on fire with his positioning or hockey smarts. I still don't see him as someone you can trust in any and all situations, especially against the league's best.

Smith has incredible potential, but he's a rookie. He's going to need 1-2 yrs of NHL seasoning, as pretty much any new/young defenseman. He'll probably see top four PP minutes, and probably mainly third pairing at ES. They will limit his PK time at the outset, I imagine.

White/CC: NHL experience, good/average defensemen.

Quincey: Kind of like the two above, better offensive skills, and probably to become a PK'er. I always put him at 4-5.

Kindl. I have no idea any longer. Was excited about him as a prospect, but he just looks flat and emotionless at times. Looks lost at times too.

This isn't exactly an above average group at this point...

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Old
01-18-2013, 11:09 PM
  #79
sarcastro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I think that's entirely accurate.
I know everyone is big on Jonny E again, but he's still really flawed and he's very intense, nor does he use his size very well.
Yeah, I've never been one of those "big on Jonny E" guys. This is going to be the year that exposes all of his weaknesses, so whether we're right or wrong about him will be very clear for everyone to see. He's going to get more PK time than anyone on the roster, in all likelihood.

If we see a lot of uncovered screeners pushing Howard back into the net and banging in rebounds, if we see a lot of uncovered cross-crease passes, if we see a lot of uncovered centering passes from behind the net, if we see the PK in the bottom half again, we'll know why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Even still. He's averaging 65 games or so. That doesn't leave many left over for Kindl
CC's yearly NHL GP totals:

21
48
28
73
67
65
64

Dude's injury history is absurd:

2/16/2012 Sprained right wrist, day-to-day. (3 games)
11/22/2011 Lower body injury, injured reserve. (8 games)
10/11/2011 Upper body injury, injured reserve. (5 games)
10/10/2011 Head injury, day-to-day.
3/22/2011 Illness, day-to-day. (1 game)
1/19/2011 Eye injury, injured reserve. (7 games)
1/13/2011 Facial injury, day-to-day. (2 games)
10/30/2010 Upper body injury, day-to-day. (7 games)
1/23/2010 Lower body injury, day-to-day. (5 games)
11/30/2009 Lower body injury, day-to-day. (1 game)
10/28/2009 Upper body injury, day-to-day. (4 games)
11/22/2008 Left ankle injury, day-to-day. (2 games)
3/20/2008 Groin, remainder of the regular season. (8 games)
1/06/2008 Right knee injury, day-to-day. (9 games)
10/03/2007 Knee injury, sidelined indefinitely. (37 games)
4/03/2007 Leg injury, day-to-day. (1 game)
12/30/2006 Headache, day-to-day. (1 game)
12/05/2006 Head injury, sidelined indefinitely. (3 games)
10/03/2006 Headache, sidelined indefinitely. (7 games)
1/24/2006 Concussion, sidelined indefinitely. (34 games)
12/28/2005 Wrist injury, day-to-day. (5 games)

He literally has never gone more than a couple months without hurting himself. And with a condensed schedule? Pssh. Kindl is going to get plenty of chances this season, assuming he can get/stay healthy himself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Maybe I'm desperate and flailing about.

I believe Kronwall is a top 2, but I don't think he's one of the best #1D in the league. He may be as good as Rafalski basically, before Raffy got too banged up.

Ericsson is in the top four because we have no better option. He's a decent skater going forward; he's flawed as a defensive skater (backwards, and laterally, around the net... where he shouldn't actually go half the time he chooses to go there). He should be serviceable on the PK, as a big body, good reach, but he MUST get more physical because he's not going to set the world on fire with his positioning or hockey smarts. I still don't see him as someone you can trust in any and all situations, especially against the league's best.

Smith has incredible potential, but he's a rookie. He's going to need 1-2 yrs of NHL seasoning, as pretty much any new/young defenseman. He'll probably see top four PP minutes, and probably mainly third pairing at ES. They will limit his PK time at the outset, I imagine.

White/CC: NHL experience, good/average defensemen.

Quincey: Kind of like the two above, better offensive skills, and probably to become a PK'er. I always put him at 4-5.

Kindl. I have no idea any longer. Was excited about him as a prospect, but he just looks flat and emotionless at times. Looks lost at times too.

This isn't exactly an above average group at this point...
Pretty much - the biggest problem that I see is a group of defensemen that would be very good to serviceable defensemen on most teams, but who don't appear to mesh well in any way. There is no balance.

Ericsson is not a shutdown defenseman, no matter how hard they try to force him into that peg. Ditto for Quincey - they're going to try and go the Stuart route with both those guys and turn them into PK/defensive defensemen, and it's not in either of their DNA. Stuart was an anomaly - guys don't just go from being offensive defensemen to shutdown PK type guys.

White is a good complementary guy with a little bit of offense and a little bit of defense. He's not a PPQB, which is what they seem to be trying to make him because he's right handed. He's the kind of guy you put on the 3rd pair with a young guy you're developing, and they do a good job against 3rd and 4th liners. Not a guy that can hold up regularly against really good forwards.

Kronwall is Kronwall - lots of offense, some big hits, lots of running out of position trying to set up those hits, awkward and ineffective one-knee shotblocking style, gets caught out of position frequently in coverage when the opposition has the cycle going - this can also be said about Ericsson and Quincey.

Kindl is ok as a 3rd pair guy but that's it. Can't PK, can't PP, doesn't hit people, doesn't bring the offense they thought he would.

Smith is the wildcard - if this is going to be a successful season, Smith has to be the best defenseman on this team. He has to score, he has to hit, he has to defend. If he doesn't do it all, they don't have enough defense to go anywhere in the playoffs. Personally, I don't think he's ready to do that. We'll find out soon enough.

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Old
01-18-2013, 11:19 PM
  #80
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Kindl's biggest issue is that he doesn't have a niche as far as the NHL go. He's big, he can skate, he can move the puck reasonably well. But he's not doing anything above average really. If you look at the other guys, I think it's safe to say they do at least one thing above average.

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01-18-2013, 11:56 PM
  #81
Fugu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post

Smith is the wildcard - if this is going to be a successful season, Smith has to be the best defenseman on this team. He has to score, he has to hit, he has to defend. If he doesn't do it all, they don't have enough defense to go anywhere in the playoffs. Personally, I don't think he's ready to do that. We'll find out soon enough.

That's a lot to ask from a guy with a handful of NHL games under his belt, and mostly third pair IT at that. Hopefully he's worked on his endurance and conditioning. Now he has to make that adjustment to NHL game speed. At least he's a great skater...

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Old
01-19-2013, 12:03 AM
  #82
P U L L H A R D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Kindl's biggest issue is that he doesn't have a niche as far as the NHL go. He's big, he can skate, he can move the puck reasonably well. But he's not doing anything above average really. If you look at the other guys, I think it's safe to say they do at least one thing above average.
I would be cool with Kindl just being an ok at everything bottom pair guy for us for the rest of his career. Nothing wrong with a solid #5 guy. Maybe a little disappointing based on where he was drafted, but we can coach him up and maybe make him some sort of specialist eventually. I especially like this idea because he would never be a big cap hit.

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