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Old
01-19-2013, 12:39 AM
  #126
Huntershin Karuk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T M L View Post
Unless your GM comes back to reality, Luongo is going no where. Enjoy the 5M cap hit

What Gillis is failing to realize is that the 29 other GM's know that he is in fact a contract dump with a terrible contract and his play has been sub par for years now! I think Gillis thinks that everyone else does not see this haha.
We will. We'll also enjoy a team that gets wins.

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01-19-2013, 12:40 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Uh he was 12th last year with 0.919, but 4th the year previous with .928 (his 2nd best ever).

But even if Gillis doesn't get what he wants, it's all good. We rock the Schneids/Lou tandem for the compressed season (lots of back to backs) and then try to deal him for value at the end of next year.

If there is still no takers we trade him to Florida for cheap, win for the Canucks and win for Luongo - a class act who has conducted himself with absolute professionalism.

Perfectly played by Gillis, and ultimately he will end up doing right by a long time Vancouver veteran. As it's been for the past 5 years, great time to be a Vancouver fan
Good that he has a back up plan.

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Old
01-19-2013, 12:47 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Nash View Post
Unless a team has a goaltending catastrophe, I believe Florida is the destination. Tallon may let Theodore play out his NTC final year before pulling the trigger and also wait to see if Markstrom is past his injury issues first though. No idea on what would be coming back, but it seems like these two teams trade every year. Some of those trades have been discussed for up to a year before being done.
Same. Florida at the draft for a mediocre return.

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01-19-2013, 12:49 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by T M L View Post

What Gillis is failing to realize is that the 29 other GM's know that he is in fact a contract dump with a terrible contract and his play has been sub par for years now!
LOL, he was a Vezina nominee year before last.

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01-19-2013, 12:58 AM
  #130
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Same. Florida at the draft for a mediocre return.
The return remains to be seen. Gillis and Tallon generally engage in mutually beneficial deals that help out both teams and players. They don't tend to engage in a war of trying to fleece each other. They deal with each other with respect. It's foreign to someone like Burke who views all negotiations as a war, but there is a reason that Vancouver and Florida trade almost every year. I'm not expecting a huge return, but it won't be nearly as mediocre as some suggest.

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01-19-2013, 01:07 AM
  #131
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LOL, he was a Vezina nominee year before last.
Seriously majority of the other Leaf posters hav finally left but now we are most likely going to see the twelve year old trolls come out in droves.

Ignore user is gonna be a good friend in this thread after the release Vezina goalie Scrivens being the starter tmrw for the Leafs.


Last edited by spiny norman: 01-19-2013 at 01:14 AM. Reason: not needed
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Old
01-19-2013, 01:22 AM
  #132
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Surprise start for our game vs. Anaheim tomorrow: Luongo. First star: Luongo with a shutout and 50 saves, 3 goals, 11 assists in a 4-3 game. This game seals a cup win for Vancouver, some how. HFboards implodes. He is then traded for Malkin, Ovechkin, RNH, Stamkos and Tavares in a whopping 6 team trade, and also somehow comes back to Vancouver as well, due all the paper work signed by the other managers saying exactly that (very tricky Mr. Gillis).

Meanwhile, in the Toronto-Montreal games, Reimer lets all 7 goals in a similarly scored 4-3 win for Toronto in, as he is playing in both nets for both teams simultaneously. This rips the time space continuum, and the poor Maple Leafs are stuck not making the playoffs for ever, until they move to Rawlins, Wyomming, in 2016, and win every Stanley Cup there after, after then trading Kessel, Phaneuf, Gardiner, Rielly, JVR, Bozak and a 3rd for Luongo+cash.

Go Canucks, go Leafs, I think both teams find the end result agreeable.

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Old
01-19-2013, 01:28 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
If the price Gillis has set for Lu isnt too high and many teams have shown interest why hasn't he been traded yet?
Lets say that hypothetically Gillis is offered something like
Kadri + 1st (hypothetical) or something like Bozak + Frattin + Finn.


Well, who will make more of a difference to this team this season? Kadri or Luongo?
I think the answer is pretty likely Luongo.

Unless they can get a player that makes them a better team today, moving him now might not make sense to Gillis.

If its a 2 + player return that involves youth, the same offer (or comparable ones) should be available 6 months from now.

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Old
01-19-2013, 01:43 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Lets say that hypothetically Gillis is offered something like
Kadri + 1st (hypothetical) or something like Bozak + Frattin + Finn.


Well, who will make more of a difference to this team this season? Kadri or Luongo?
I think the answer is pretty likely Luongo.

Unless they can get a player that makes them a better team today, moving him now might not make sense to Gillis.

If its a 2 + player return that involves youth, the same offer (or comparable ones) should be available 6 months from now.
I haven't seen a Leaf poster who I have agreed with in months.

Thanks good sir.


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Old
01-19-2013, 01:48 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by roach9 View Post
I haven't seen a Leaf poster who I have agreed with in months.

Thanks good sir.

He's one of us dude (dudette?).

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Old
01-19-2013, 02:02 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Surprise start for our game vs. Anaheim tomorrow: Luongo. First star: Luongo with a shutout and 50 saves, 3 goals, 11 assists in a 4-3 game. This game seals a cup win for Vancouver, some how. HFboards implodes. He is then traded for Malkin, Ovechkin, RNH, Stamkos and Tavares in a whopping 6 team trade, and also somehow comes back to Vancouver as well, due all the paper work signed by the other managers saying exactly that (very tricky Mr. Gillis).

Meanwhile, in the Toronto-Montreal games, Reimer lets all 7 goals in a similarly scored 4-3 win for Toronto in, as he is playing in both nets for both teams simultaneously. This rips the time space continuum, and the poor Maple Leafs are stuck not making the playoffs for ever, until they move to Rawlins, Wyomming, in 2016, and win every Stanley Cup there after, after then trading Kessel, Phaneuf, Gardiner, Rielly, JVR, Bozak and a 3rd for Luongo+cash.

Go Canucks, go Leafs, I think both teams find the end result agreeable.
Oh man... my sides...

Thank you for this early contender of post of the year.

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Old
01-19-2013, 02:11 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Lawzy View Post
Oh man... my sides...

Thank you for this early contender of post of the year.
Would I have lost points to add a or or ?

Think of it....the 'Rawlins Maple Leafs'....epic...

...

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Old
01-19-2013, 02:16 AM
  #138
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Gillis responded in a TSN article saying that they are not going to do any favours and give away an all-star player.

Does he not also realize that a team will be doing him a favour by giving him cap space? If nobody trades for him, Vancouver is not in great shape at all when it comes to the salary cap.

Gillis and Co made their bed when they put Schneider into the playoffs and sat Luongo. He also signed the guy to a ridiculous long contract and then decides to dump him. It doesn't matter that the cap hit is ok. The contract is way too long.

The fact is that yes they can keep both goalies, but that is not going to happen long term. One has to go. He does not have much leverage at all.

I still think it's risky throwing all of your eggs into one basket. Anything can happen. Didn't Mason win the Calder?

The goalie storyline is the most interesting thing about the Canucks for me this year. What if Schneider falters? I would keep Roberto this year just for that and then trade one of them afterwards.

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Old
01-19-2013, 02:28 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by BlueChip01 View Post
Gillis responded in a TSN article saying that they are not going to do any favours and give away an all-star player.

Does he not also realize that a team will be doing him a favour by giving him cap space? If nobody trades for him, Vancouver is not in great shape at all when it comes to the salary cap.

Gillis and Co made their bed when they put Schneider into the playoffs and sat Luongo. He also signed the guy to a ridiculous long contract and then decides to dump him. It doesn't matter that the cap hit is ok. The contract is way too long.

The fact is that yes they can keep both goalies, but that is not going to happen long term. One has to go. He does not have much leverage at all.

I still think it's risky throwing all of your eggs into one basket. Anything can happen. Didn't Mason win the Calder?

The goalie storyline is the most interesting thing about the Canucks for me this year. What if Schneider falters? I would keep Roberto this year just for that and then trade one of them afterwards.
Cap space we can live with out. With Edler signed to a sweet deal, it frees up a few more millions for other other resignings (ie Higgins and Lapierre)

They had to do something to shake up the rest of the team...they weren't about the play the Wolves+Ballard against the Kings. Contract length is what it is, and we can still use him, so he's not part of a fire sale.

I agree with you that it won't, but I come to this conclusion with a different method of thinking: Of the 30 teams, us included, how many starters are likely to drop the ball (puck)? And of those, how many teams have another potential starter available? I say one or more.

Agreed. Schneider does have an unbelievable record that has translated from league to league to league though, so Steve Mason isn't the best comparison.

The last point I agree with entirely...barring a great trade offer we simply can't give up. Perhaps not a "platoon" situation, but I see Luongo getting more starts then a run-of-the-mill back up.

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Old
01-19-2013, 02:28 AM
  #140
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I don't think having both goalies is as big a deal as most are making it out to be. Especially in a shortened season.

If we keep both another year, one can crap the bed and be tossed aside. If their both good we have a difficult, yet rewarding decision to make. We're only screwed if they both suck.

If they whine and complain they know their value goes way down.

People also fail to realize that the problem with moving a player like this is he is actually still worth more then his current contract(Maybe not in terms of years, but cap hit for sure.).

I think the poster above is mistaken that we are putting all of our eggs in one basket. If that were 100% true, Luongo would be gone by now, imho.

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Old
01-19-2013, 02:30 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Nash View Post
You think Ottawa is going to trade a goalie to their provincial rival?!?

Isn't that about as likely as Luongo going to the Oilers?
I think anything is possible, I mean Boston and the leafs traded with each other... Twice. IMF both teams are getting better I wouldn't put it past them

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Old
01-19-2013, 02:35 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by AndyPipkin View Post
I don't think having both goalies is as big a deal as most are making it out to be. Especially in a shortened season.

If we keep both another year, one can crap the bed and be tossed aside. If their both good we have a difficult, yet rewarding decision to make. We're only screwed if they both suck.

If they whine and complain they know their value goes way down.

People also fail to realize that the problem with moving a player like this is he is actually still worth more then his current contract(Maybe not in terms of years, but cap hit for sure.).

I think the poster above is mistaken that we are putting all of our eggs in one basket. If that were 100% true, Luongo would be gone by now, imho.
Me or Bluechip01? I'm saying we're justified in doing so, but I'd want a safety given our 3rd and 4/5th best forwards on the LTIR.

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01-19-2013, 02:49 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by roach9 View Post
I haven't seen a Leaf poster who I have agreed with in months.

Thanks good sir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
He's one of us dude (dudette?).
Meh, in all fairness im a Canucks/Leafs fan.

One of the few, but we exist.

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Old
01-19-2013, 02:53 AM
  #144
Cogburn
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Meh, in all fairness im a Canucks/Leafs fan.

One of the few, but we exist.
Implausible!

Well I still agree with the post Roach9 cited.

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01-19-2013, 02:53 AM
  #145
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I think anything is possible, I mean Boston and the leafs traded with each other... Twice. IMF both teams are getting better I wouldn't put it past them
Hell even Edmonton and Calgary have traded in the last couple of years. I could see Luongo heading to Edmonton in only one scenario though. At the trade deadline, Schneider is playing lights out, Vancouver is basically locked into the playoffs, and Edmonton is fighting for a playoff spot. Something along the lines of MPS, Khabi (so you have a backup for the playoffs just in case) a d prospect like Marincin and Anaheims 2nd. That's just a starter idea. I'm sure there would be somethings that both teams might find disagreeable with that particular trade.

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01-19-2013, 02:55 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by BlueChip01 View Post
Gillis responded in a TSN article saying that they are not going to do any favours and give away an all-star player.

Does he not also realize that a team will be doing him a favour by giving him cap space? If nobody trades for him, Vancouver is not in great shape at all when it comes to the salary cap.

Gillis and Co made their bed when they put Schneider into the playoffs and sat Luongo. He also signed the guy to a ridiculous long contract and then decides to dump him. It doesn't matter that the cap hit is ok. The contract is way too long.

The fact is that yes they can keep both goalies, but that is not going to happen long term. One has to go. He does not have much leverage at all.

I still think it's risky throwing all of your eggs into one basket. Anything can happen. Didn't Mason win the Calder?

The goalie storyline is the most interesting thing about the Canucks for me this year. What if Schneider falters? I would keep Roberto this year just for that and then trade one of them afterwards.
1) And what do we do with the cap space? Capspace is worthless if you don't intend on utilize it by spending to the cap (now where do we get 5.3 mil worth of quality roster player?)
- They are in fine shape. Kesler, Booth on LTIR, and 1.3 million in space without subtracting those 2.
- Also a 23 man roster including Luongo.

2) Holmgren seemed fine trading 2 players signed to similar contracts. Theres been plenty of reported interest, obviously the contract isn't the hindrance you make it out to be.

3) I think everyone knows Luongo will be dealt by next season. It could be at any point between now and then, plenty of time.

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Old
01-19-2013, 03:00 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Implausible!

Well I still agree with the post Roach9 cited.
In all fairness, it was Burke being their GM that made me a fan


But thats a lot of why I want to see a Luongo deal happen so badly.

- Luongo has more impact on the Leafs franchise than any player outside of Kessel. Guaranteed.

- The team was in the bottom 5 of the league in goals against. Luongo fixes that problem.
Between Luongo and Carlyle, I guarantee the Leafs would be top 15 in goals against, and possibly top 10 (big jump from 25th). While being a top 10 offense.

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Old
01-19-2013, 03:15 AM
  #148
Cogburn
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Hell even Edmonton and Calgary have traded in the last couple of years. I could see Luongo heading to Edmonton in only one scenario though. At the trade deadline, Schneider is playing lights out, Vancouver is basically locked into the playoffs, and Edmonton is fighting for a playoff spot. Something along the lines of MPS, Khabi (so you have a backup for the playoffs just in case) a d prospect like Marincin and Anaheims 2nd. That's just a starter idea. I'm sure there would be somethings that both teams might find disagreeable with that particular trade.
If we're moving Luongo in conference, let alone in division, I really don't see a "quantity for quality" trade. That being said, I don't see Edmonton being super interested, but I'm absolutely not opposed to the idea, rather if we can keep it civil, I'd love to discuss it further.

If Edmonton finds itself fighting for a playoff spot, I see it doing so on a reliance on it's young guns (top 4 + Schultz), and I'd be looking for Hemsky or Gagner as being part of the return.

I have nothing against some of Edmonton's defensive prospects, but unless they would rank higher in our organization then Tanev, K-Conn, Sauve or Corrado.

Basically, I don't think Vancouver would be looking for "substitutes" so much as "additions", something that adds an element we don't have, as evidenced by Gillis not hitting the panic button with Booth and Kesler out. MPS is still a 2/3 tweener in our eyes, granted with higher upside then most of our guys, Khabi I'm not against, but he's not someone we covet or value if you can get a better asset trading him elsewhere (or keeping him), and if we're locked up in playoff position, I am of the opinion futures wouldn't be of the same value to us as in other situations.

To reiterate, I don't want to come off as dismissive, I like the idea, at the very least as something new to talk about, but we'd have to work on the return for Vancouver.


Last edited by Cogburn: 01-19-2013 at 03:24 AM. Reason: Wrong terms in brackets.
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Old
01-19-2013, 03:22 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
In all fairness, it was Burke being their GM that made me a fan


But thats a lot of why I want to see a Luongo deal happen so badly.

- Luongo has more impact on the Leafs franchise than any player outside of Kessel. Guaranteed.

- The team was in the bottom 5 of the league in goals against. Luongo fixes that problem.
Between Luongo and Carlyle, I guarantee the Leafs would be top 15 in goals against, and possibly top 10 (big jump from 25th). While being a top 10 offense.
Are you a sadist or something? I hated the guy here, and even Nonis I like much better here or there. Polite men must differ at some points I suppose. In all seriousness though, I hope Nonis does his low flying, under the radar magic and shows some progress for the Leafs this year. Back on track though...

Your first point is exactly why I am resigned to believing that it won't work for both sides. The Canucks would want someone that would make a fair impact back, and unfortunately, even with our roster having two big strips ripped off it, I don't see the Kulemins, or MacArthurs, or Bozaks, or Fransons, or even the JVRs or Gardiners doing that this year.

We can argue until the cows come home how they'd do here, but it's not these players vs. a vacuum, but rather, these players vs. our current roster players they'd be replacing.

Toronto making the playoffs is awesome for Leafs fans, but...Vancouver Canuck fans don't have motivation to help with this unless we get something out of it. The math is there, if Luongo was a Leaf last year, even only in the games Reimer played I think, the Leafs would have finished 7th or 8th.

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01-19-2013, 03:47 AM
  #150
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Yes, Luongo helps many teams in the short run....but CRIPPLES their salary cap in the long run. He'd be worth a heck of alot more if he only had short term contract left.

Holding on to him might be the right move right now....but unless they lower their demands....I can see you buying him out in 2014. Unless you want to cripple your own cap in the future.

I hope Toronto doesn't make the playoffs this year....it's a deep draft. Hopefully Burke was let go to prevent him from going after Luongo to save his job.

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