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TOR Rebuild

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Old
01-19-2013, 04:16 AM
  #76
WeridAl
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Saw enough of Phaneuf with Calgary to know Edmonton wouldn't anything to do with him.

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Old
01-19-2013, 05:40 AM
  #77
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No need. Trade Lupul and MacArthur at the deadline, decide Kessels future in the summer before his NTC/NMC kicks in, and move Phaneuf at next years deadline. I'm positive that a lot of teams will be interested in Phaneuf as a playoff rental.

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01-19-2013, 08:19 AM
  #78
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LMAO laughed out loud at Komiserek for a second, hahaha and then the skinner one that one almost made me cry, wow those are just 2 of many bad offers... Leaf fans have to put the worst proposals on this site I mean you Over value everyone, I want to know Leaf fans what would you want for Kessel? My guess would be at least 2 firsts, 1 second, 1 grade A prospect and a couple B Prospects.

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Old
01-19-2013, 08:34 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Lets be realistic. With out a completely lucky start. The Leafs not making the playoffs.
Now let's leave reality behind.

HEre's a quick rebuild for y'all:

Phaneuf ---> EDM 2013 1st
{Gunner + 4th -----> PIT 2013 1st}
{Komi + retained salary-----> PIT 2nd (deadline)}
Brown + MacArthur + Kulemin + Gardiner -----> Skinner + CAR 2013 1st
Grabo + retained salary ----> CLB (LAK) 2013 1st

DRaft 2013:
LAK 1st(28th) + CAR 1st(24th) + PIT 2nd(60th) ---------> 10th overall
PIT 1st (30th) + EDM 1st(18th) + TOR 3rd (61st)------------> 8th Overall

8th overall + 10th overall -----------> 3rd overall(CLB)

3rd overall + TOR 2nd(31st) ------------>1st/2nd overall.


There.


Skinner, Jones AND MacKinnon.

Rebuilt and ready to go.

BEautiful!
Wow... bad.

too many leaf fans. . . impossible to weed out the glue heads

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Old
01-19-2013, 08:34 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitsfan67 View Post
LMAO laughed out loud at Komiserek for a second, hahaha and then the skinner one that one almost made me cry, wow those are just 2 of many bad offers... Leaf fans have to put the worst proposals on this site I mean you Over value everyone, I want to know Leaf fans what would you want for Kessel? My guess would be at least 2 firsts, 1 second, 1 grade A prospect and a couple B Prospects.
lol... I've seen your proposals too bro... just as bad.

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01-19-2013, 08:55 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CreeksideStrangler View Post
lol... I've seen your proposals too bro... just as bad.
Lol I haven't put one on here in 3 months because of the people on this site there is a RARE and it's very rare where people like YOU say that's not a bad trade ... By then people like YOU don't back up why it's bad and it's not like you put a proposal on here for people to criticize... so mind your own bussiness.

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Old
01-19-2013, 08:57 AM
  #82
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There's not really much to trade for the Leafs as they are already a very young team with a ton of cap room.

They can trade Kessel if he doesn't re-sign, but they have to negotiate with him first to see.

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Old
01-19-2013, 08:58 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitsfan67 View Post
LMAO laughed out loud at Komiserek for a second, hahaha and then the skinner one that one almost made me cry, wow those are just 2 of many bad offers... Leaf fans have to put the worst proposals on this site I mean you Over value everyone, I want to know Leaf fans what would you want for Kessel? My guess would be at least 2 firsts, 1 second, 1 grade A prospect and a couple B Prospects.
I think it's a little less funny since they just got a 4th for Lombardi which shocked me.

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01-19-2013, 08:59 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
Saw enough of Phaneuf with Calgary to know Edmonton wouldn't anything to do with him.
Yeah that defense is top notch in Edmonton...

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01-19-2013, 09:06 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
I think it's a little less funny since they just got a 4th for Lombardi which shocked me.
I know but a second is a bit over the top in my opinion, if it was a fourth then yea it's realistic but why would the pens want anything to do with Komi?

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01-19-2013, 09:09 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Yeah that defense is top notch in Edmonton...
Forgot Torontos D was top 10 in the league...

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Old
01-19-2013, 09:12 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Brian28 View Post
Forgot Torontos D was top 10 in the league...
Toronto defense is fine. Just get better goaltending.

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01-19-2013, 09:43 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitsfan67 View Post
Lol I haven't put one on here in 3 months because of the people on this site there is a RARE and it's very rare where people like YOU say that's not a bad trade ... By then people like YOU don't back up why it's bad and it's not like you put a proposal on here for people to criticize... so mind your own bussiness.
omg. Are you not the guy who just put down leaf fans as a whole. Talk about calling the kettle black brother. I'm just saying that your proposals are just as bad as our worst posters... congrats... In your threads people even say that yours are worse. Hypocrite.

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Old
01-19-2013, 09:53 AM
  #89
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People will always say Leaf proposals are the worst. The other day I proposed the Leafs give the Islanders the equivalent of 24 million in cash and was told it was the worst proposal ever.

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01-19-2013, 10:12 AM
  #90
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The Leafs will never commit to a rebuild.

Every time the Leafs fire a GM, it's basically for the same reasons; the team has under-performed, not made the playoffs and seems to be going in the wrong direction.

So what message does that send the new GM? Win now or you're done. So each new GM does exactly the same things - tries to turn the last guy's team into a winner without blowing it up.

Brian Burke probably had the best chance to start a true rebuild. He had the most autonomy of any GM in recent history. But he opted for the slow rebuild thinking that with a couple of big trades and a few free agents he would have a competitive team. It might have worked except for his failure to provide a goal tender. If you are going to build around a core, you have to have core players at the right positions. There is a lot of wisdom to the idiom that you build your team around strength up the middle - a top line centre, a top defensive pair and a goalie. You don't trade 2 years worth of high draft picks for a winger.

If Dave Nonis's plan is to build around the existing core, then he has to address the goal tending problems. If his plan is to blow the team up this summer, then he should try to get some value in return for his pending UFAs and look for a lottery draft pick this spring. Retain only the veterans who have solid leadership qualities to mentor the next generation of players.

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01-19-2013, 10:21 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
The Leafs will never commit to a rebuild.

Every time the Leafs fire a GM, it's basically for the same reasons; the team has under-performed, not made the playoffs and seems to be going in the wrong direction.

So what message does that send the new GM? Win now or you're done. So each new GM does exactly the same things - tries to turn the last guy's team into a winner without blowing it up.

Brian Burke probably had the best chance to start a true rebuild. He had the most autonomy of any GM in recent history. But he opted for the slow rebuild thinking that with a couple of big trades and a few free agents he would have a competitive team. It might have worked except for his failure to provide a goal tender. If you are going to build around a core, you have to have core players at the right positions. There is a lot of wisdom to the idiom that you build your team around strength up the middle - a top line centre, a top defensive pair and a goalie. You don't trade 2 years worth of high draft picks for a winger.

If Dave Nonis's plan is to build around the existing core, then he has to address the goal tending problems. If his plan is to blow the team up this summer, then he should try to get some value in return for his pending UFAs and look for a lottery draft pick this spring. Retain only the veterans who have solid leadership qualities to mentor the next generation of players.
Nope. Burke's problems came from the fact that he tried to do an accelerated rebuild, but refused to committ to one direction. He signs Mike Komisarek and Francois Beauchemin to big deals to compliment Tomas Kaberle, Luke Schenn, Carl Gunnarsson, Ian White & Jeff Finger. Then, a couple months later because Komisarek gets hurt, he commits $6.5m to Dion Phaneuf. He also goes out and gets Garnet Exelby, just to make sure that he completely destroy's Finger's confidence, and as it turns out, his NHL career.

When you fire a GM, it basically pushes the reset button again. You've already seen Nonis clear out talent for nothing so that the young guys can play, instead of filling the biggest weaknesses on our roster. With the depth that Burke accumulated up front, there's no way that it should've been impossible to convert some of that depth to a stay-at-home defenceman.

As for messages being sent, there doesn't seem to be a clear one... because Burke's firing was primarily as a result of the fact that new ownership didn't like the way he conducted himself. What's clear, is that they seem to be ok with a youth movement.

Nonis too, is suffering from the same mistakes. Jake Gardiner is out to start the year, which should afford a temporary spot to Morgan Rielly, but instead he chooses to play a 27 year old Mike Kostka. Gardiner & Rielly are the two young guys that you're building around on the blueline, they should be playing whenever possible, and the Leafs should've moved Franson/Liles, along with whatever else was neccessary, to acquire a top 4 shutdown guy to compliment one of them while Komisarek plays with the other.

Realistically, if we're truly going with the youth movement, our opening night pairings should be Gunnarsson-Phaneuf, Liles-Franson, Rielly-Komisarek. Insulate Rielly's lack of physicality. Force Franson to learn to be a more physical player, not the ideal situation for Franson, but he's not the guy who you're prioritizing.


Last edited by seanlinden: 01-19-2013 at 10:32 AM.
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Old
01-19-2013, 10:36 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by CreeksideStrangler View Post
omg. Are you not the guy who just put down leaf fans as a whole. Talk about calling the kettle black brother. I'm just saying that your proposals are just as bad as our worst posters... congrats... In your threads people even say that yours are worse. Hypocrite.
Again you just come on here to criticize every proposal every proposal on here to you is the worst and you dont back up your points you just say its a really bad proposal and don't say why..show some point why it's not good, I don't come on here thinking its a great trade I do it for fun and then people like you blow the proposal up.

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Old
01-19-2013, 10:37 AM
  #93
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That is crazy...

ALthough, depending on how the oilers do throughout the season I could see them liking the option of bringing in a captain kinda guy who can hammer guys, play against good opposition, and bring some offence from the backend. Plus he is a home town boy. But then, that wouldn't be as high a first rounder. And it's a deep draft so EDM may want to keep as many of their higher picks as they can for at least one more draft.

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Old
01-19-2013, 10:41 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
I'd take a flyer out on Kulemin, depending on who we have left at the deadline (injuries or other trades).

Maybe Gunnar too, if there are soft spots on our D, even with Ballard, Tanev, K-Conn, Alberts, Barker and Vandemeer fighting for 2 roster spots.

Asking prices for each?
I'd offer a 2nd + 1 of Rodin/Sauve/Gordon for Kulemin and probably the same for Gunnar

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Old
01-19-2013, 10:42 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
I think it's a little less funny since they just got a 4th for Lombardi which shocked me.
They got a 4th because they retained a large chunk of salary. Lombardi at 2m probably represented decent value for both sides. Not a steal from TO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian28 View Post
Forgot Torontos D was top 10 in the league...
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Toronto defense is fine. Just get better goaltending.
The hype that surrounds Leafs D does not match reality. Doug McLean called it the worst in the east. I'd be very nervous trading for a d man from the leafs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Yeah that defense is top notch in Edmonton...
Yeah it's easy to make smartass comments when a poster says they would have no interest in Phaneuf but there are damn good reasons for that. For an example listen to the interview in the link I posted earlier in the thread. Of course you can keep your rose tinted leafs glasses on and believe that Phaneuf is this great leader of men who teams are dying to give up their 1st rounders for.......by the same token you can keep believing the easter bunny and the tooth fairy are real.

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01-19-2013, 10:44 AM
  #96
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In which world is Phaneuf worth a potential top-3 pick?

I'll answer the question: in no world.

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Old
01-19-2013, 10:46 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by gooilgo View Post
They got a 4th because they retained a large chunk of salary. Lombardi at 2m probably represented decent value for both sides. Not a steal from TO.





The hype that surrounds Leafs D does not match reality. Doug McLean called it the worst in the east. I'd be very nervous trading for a d man from the leafs.



Yeah it's easy to make smartass comments when a poster says they would have no interest in Phaneuf but there are damn good reasons for that. For an example listen to the interview in the link I posted earlier in the thread. Of course you can keep your rose tinted leafs glasses on and believe that Phaneuf is this great leader of men who teams are dying to give up their 1st rounders for.......by the same token you can keep believing the easter bunny and the tooth fairy are real.
Of excuse me, Doug Maclean. He screwed Columbus so bad with his idiotic moves.

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Old
01-19-2013, 10:47 AM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
People will always say Leaf proposals are the worst. The other day I proposed the Leafs give the Islanders the equivalent of 24 million in cash and was told it was the worst proposal ever.
What you were told was...


1. Wang has bought out a larger contract then DiPietro's, when he bought out Yashin. He's also bought out Bates and Witt. So, Wang is willing to buyout contracts.

2. Sources close to the isles, Staples and Botta, both say Wang has no interest in buying out DiPietro.

I wonder if this is this because of their personel friendship or are the isles hoping he'll retire and insurance will pay DiPietro for them?

3. DiPietro's buyout would be $1.5m per. Very affordable if Wang goes that route.

4.Just because Leaf fans feel burned losing out on Seguin/Hamiliton, doesn't mean some draft lottery team, will be trading away a potential stud to Toronto.

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Old
01-19-2013, 10:47 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
The Leafs will never commit to a rebuild.

Every time the Leafs fire a GM, it's basically for the same reasons; the team has under-performed, not made the playoffs and seems to be going in the wrong direction.

So what message does that send the new GM? Win now or you're done. So each new GM does exactly the same things - tries to turn the last guy's team into a winner without blowing it up.

Brian Burke probably had the best chance to start a true rebuild. He had the most autonomy of any GM in recent history. But he opted for the slow rebuild thinking that with a couple of big trades and a few free agents he would have a competitive team. It might have worked except for his failure to provide a goal tender. If you are going to build around a core, you have to have core players at the right positions. There is a lot of wisdom to the idiom that you build your team around strength up the middle - a top line centre, a top defensive pair and a goalie. You don't trade 2 years worth of high draft picks for a winger.

If Dave Nonis's plan is to build around the existing core, then he has to address the goal tending problems. If his plan is to blow the team up this summer, then he should try to get some value in return for his pending UFAs and look for a lottery draft pick this spring. Retain only the veterans who have solid leadership qualities to mentor the next generation of players.
Looks to me like Nonis and the new Leafs ownership is commtted to a rebuild.

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Old
01-19-2013, 10:48 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Lets be realistic. With out a completely lucky start. The Leafs not making the playoffs.
Now let's leave reality behind.

HEre's a quick rebuild for y'all:

Phaneuf ---> EDM 2013 1st
{Gunner + 4th -----> PIT 2013 1st}
{Komi + retained salary-----> PIT 2nd (deadline)}
Brown + MacArthur + Kulemin + Gardiner -----> Skinner + CAR 2013 1st
Grabo + retained salary ----> CLB (LAK) 2013 1st

DRaft 2013:
LAK 1st(28th) + CAR 1st(24th) + PIT 2nd(60th) ---------> 10th overall
PIT 1st (30th) + EDM 1st(18th) + TOR 3rd (61st)------------> 8th Overall

8th overall + 10th overall -----------> 3rd overall(CLB)

3rd overall + TOR 2nd(31st) ------------>1st/2nd overall.


There.


Skinner, Jones AND MacKinnon.

Rebuilt and ready to go.

BEautiful!
Apparently you forgot that part.

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