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01-19-2013, 09:09 AM
  #126
sangreale
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I hope Gillis sticks to his guns. All this discussion of getting Luongo at a cheaper price needs to die. I don't want this guy for love nor money. Build through the draft. The core of young players is not strong enough yet.

Why ... won't .. you ... die.

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01-19-2013, 09:12 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I have a feeling Leafs scouts liked him, really to break this stalemate, I can only see other players being added as opposed to simply being a Luongo for players/prospects deal from the Leafs. Gaunce is something that would make Nonis think, and it justifies his only trading youth if we get youth back mantra, something I agree 100% on!
While the point is valid in terms of returning a young prospect, why would Vancouver be interested in tossing a former 1st rounder to sweeten the pot?

If Gillis already believes Toronto's offer is too low, than adding to Luongo only makes the package asking price higher and soon Kadri will become Gardiner or Rielly instead as his demands increase.

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01-19-2013, 09:14 AM
  #128
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So what goalie are they gonna get at the draft? And then wait 5-6 years to see if he can start? If not, rinse and repeat. It's so stupid that people wouldn't want a great goalie even if it was free. I can understand not wanting to pay a high price but not wanting a #1 for the sake of not wanting a #1 is severely irritating.

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01-19-2013, 09:17 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
While the point is valid in terms of returning a young prospect, why would Vancouver be interested in tossing a former 1st rounder to sweeten the pot?

If Gillis already believes Toronto's offer is too low, than adding to Luongo only makes the package asking price higher and soon Kadri will become Gardiner or Rielly instead as his demands increase.
Or maybe Gillis is bluffing and if Schneider does play like a #1G, he realizes he can't keep a 5.33 back up on the roster with 64M cap next year, he makes his package more attractive instead of backing off his demands. Maybe Nonis will still not pull the trigger not wanting to part with our prospects. But it does fit his philosophy of fit. Trading young players for young players that fit both needs of trading partners.

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01-19-2013, 09:53 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Or maybe Gillis is bluffing and if Schneider does play like a #1G, he realizes he can't keep a 5.33 back up on the roster with 64M cap next year, he makes his package more attractive instead of backing off his demands. Maybe Nonis will still not pull the trigger not wanting to part with our prospects. But it does fit his philosophy of fit. Trading young players for young players that fit both needs of trading partners.
But it seems like your creating a situation whereby your making Gillis required to comply with Nonis beliefs/philosophy here in order to deal Luongo to Toronto.

When really the need component is stronger from the Leafs side to complete a successful deal, as desire to acquire to fill a hole >> the desire to deal an asset away.

I could see a larger deal with more than Luongo being in the package alone, however as I stated earlier that will only increase the asking price more from Toronto's perspective, and they already feel that is too high for their liking.

I would think the odds might be greater to convince Vancouver to take on a Komisarek salary dump in addition to the asking price where Leafs gain in that perspective of the deal.

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01-19-2013, 10:17 AM
  #131
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The question isn't what should Toronto give for Luongo its what should Vancouver give Toronto to take on Luongo's contract.

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01-19-2013, 10:55 AM
  #132
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Here's a team with 8 million in cap space AFTER they buy out Ballard next off-season with only 13 guys under contract. <1 million left for each guy to fill out their roster. Good luck with that. They're getting up there in age and put a lot of mileage on the last few years. Enjoy the media distraction in Vancouver. Luongo will be gone for peanuts in the off-season unless some team is desperate enough to land a 10 year contract at the TDD and the Canucks will begin trending downwards unless Kesler somehow plays like the bionic man again.

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01-19-2013, 11:03 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by shakes View Post
So what goalie are they gonna get at the draft? And then wait 5-6 years to see if he can start? If not, rinse and repeat. It's so stupid that people wouldn't want a great goalie even if it was free. I can understand not wanting to pay a high price but not wanting a #1 for the sake of not wanting a #1 is severely irritating.
Free! You surely don't mean that. The problem with Luongo in 4 years is worse than the problem that Van is having now. He is not a fit on this team now and he will be less of a fit down the road. There has to be another solution than taking on a terrible, terrible contract. I hope Nonis can be more creative than that. If Nonis trades for this guy I want Nonis gone. I feel cap space will be more precious down the road when the Leafs are trying to sign guys like Gardiner and Reilly to NHL size contracts. The thought of paying that size a cap hit to a dude sunning himself in Florida after he is well and done makes me crazy!

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01-19-2013, 11:17 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by sangreale View Post
Free! You surely don't mean that. The problem with Luongo in 4 years is worse than the problem that Van is having now. He is not a fit on this team now and he will be less of a fit down the road. There has to be another solution than taking on a terrible, terrible contract. I hope Nonis can be more creative than that. If Nonis trades for this guy I want Nonis gone. I feel cap space will be more precious down the road when the Leafs are trying to sign guys like Gardiner and Reilly to NHL size contracts. The thought of paying that size a cap hit to a dude sunning himself in Florida after he is well and done makes me crazy!
This + this

If we were already a 6-8 seed I could understand the risk.

All that he does now for us is bring us to that position. In three or four years we are back where we are now. Especially if we trade our futures to get him.

What we need is Bernier. Risk reward bla bla bla

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01-19-2013, 11:18 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by sangreale View Post
Free! You surely don't mean that. The problem with Luongo in 4 years is worse than the problem that Van is having now. He is not a fit on this team now and he will be less of a fit down the road. There has to be another solution than taking on a terrible, terrible contract. I hope Nonis can be more creative than that. If Nonis trades for this guy I want Nonis gone. I feel cap space will be more precious down the road when the Leafs are trying to sign guys like Gardiner and Reilly to NHL size contracts. The thought of paying that size a cap hit to a dude sunning himself in Florida after he is well and done makes me crazy!
After this year the Leafs are in great shape and will have $20+ million in cap space available. Getting Luongo doesnt hurt the Leafs in anyway, if anything the guy will help the younger Goaltenders the Leafs have already in the system. I personally believe that this getting too much media BS. The Leafs need a legit #1 goalie and no matter what the critics say the guy is a top 5 goalie. If taking your team to a game 7 in the Stanley cup and having your name nominated as Conn smythe canidate makes you a unstable or guy who chokes, than I dont know what it takes to be a bonifide superstar.
I recall that the Cannucks didnt score either, and when it comes to the playoffs the Sedin sisters disappear, and not much scoring went on, considering they were a dynamic scoring machine in the regular season.
What it comes down to is that we need to see a goalie who will stop the puck especially in shorthanded situations, and Luongo fits the bill.
The contract is a long one and ya I get it, but $5 million per year imo is a great deal for a superstar goalie.

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01-19-2013, 11:25 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by devilishleafs View Post
After this year the Leafs are in great shape and will have $20+ million in cap space available. Getting Luongo doesnt hurt the Leafs in anyway, if anything the guy will help the younger Goaltenders the Leafs have already in the system. I personally believe that this getting too much media BS. The Leafs need a legit #1 goalie and no matter what the critics say the guy is a top 5 goalie. If taking your team to a game 7 in the Stanley cup and having your name nominated as Conn smythe canidate makes you a unstable or guy who chokes, than I dont know what it takes to be a bonifide superstar.
I recall that the Cannucks didnt score either, and when it comes to the playoffs the Sedin sisters disappear, and not much scoring went on, considering they were a dynamic scoring machine in the regular season.
What it comes down to is that we need to see a goalie who will stop the puck especially in shorthanded situations, and Luongo fits the bill.
The contract is a long one and ya I get it, but $5 million per year imo is a great deal for a superstar goalie.

I think you are missing my point. Do you think it will still be a great deal when we are cutting him a check for 5 mil and taking that cap hit for 5 years after he has retired?

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01-19-2013, 11:27 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by devilishleafs View Post
After this year the Leafs are in great shape and will have $20+ million in cap space available. Getting Luongo doesnt hurt the Leafs in anyway, if anything the guy will help the younger Goaltenders the Leafs have already in the system. I personally believe that this getting too much media BS. The Leafs need a legit #1 goalie and no matter what the critics say the guy is a top 5 goalie. If taking your team to a game 7 in the Stanley cup and having your name nominated as Conn smythe canidate makes you a unstable or guy who chokes, than I dont know what it takes to be a bonifide superstar.
I recall that the Cannucks didnt score either, and when it comes to the playoffs the Sedin sisters disappear, and not much scoring went on, considering they were a dynamic scoring machine in the regular season.
What it comes down to is that we need to see a goalie who will stop the puck especially in shorthanded situations, and Luongo fits the bill.
The contract is a long one and ya I get it, but $5 million per year imo is a great deal for a superstar goalie.
Who are the young goaltender s that you speak of? When he's gone and our prospects are keeping Van competitive for years who is going to step in?

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01-19-2013, 11:29 AM
  #138
devilishleafs
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Originally Posted by sangreale View Post
I think you are missing my point. Do you think it will still be a great deal when we are cutting him a check for 5 mil and taking that cap hit for 5 years after he has retired?
It wont matter when the cap has gone up to $70 million plus by then. Besides its about winning now and planning for the future with prospects. This deal helps develop the goalies the Leafs have or get.

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01-19-2013, 11:53 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Ship has sailed on the Leaf interest, nothing more to discuss from the Leaf POV.
Agreed, thank god.

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01-19-2013, 11:57 AM
  #140
devilishleafs
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Originally Posted by namttebih View Post
Who are the young goaltender s that you speak of? When he's gone and our prospects are keeping Van competitive for years who is going to step in?
Reimer is 24, Rynnas and Sparks, and whoever they want later down the road.

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01-19-2013, 12:09 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by devilishleafs View Post
It wont matter when the cap has gone up to $70 million plus by then. Besides its about winning now and planning for the future with prospects. This deal helps develop the goalies the Leafs have or get.

So is 3 or 4 years of barely making the playoffs worth having less money to spend than the rest of the league in years 5 through 10?

Sounds like the Quinn/jfj days.. Short term moves that put us in a hole.

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01-19-2013, 12:12 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
The question isn't what should Toronto give for Luongo its what should Vancouver give Toronto to take on Luongo's contract.
That's what I think too. But better still just to have these Luongo talks die.

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01-19-2013, 12:19 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by BayStBullies View Post
Now that Edler is signed; Vancouver will need to fill 9 roster spots next year with $3,896,667 in cap space.

If I recall correctly; the minimum allowable salary for a player will be $550,000. If they sign 9 league minimum roster players; that would cost $4,950,000. That equates to $1,053,333 over the salary cap.

Ballard is a near guaranteed buy out (unless Luongo is traded); with a healthy cap hit at $4,200,000. That means free cap space equivalent to $3,146,667; minus another $550,000 for a league minimum player; making it $2,596,667.

They then have 10 roster spots to fill; with only $2.6 million salary cap to pay these players (nearly half the roster) above league minimum.

I see in a situation where Luongo is kept; Booth having to be bought out along with Ballard. That's the only way I see these numbers working. Even then; there is not much wiggle room. Needing to sign 11 players (half the roster); with $6,296,667 above minimum salaries to get creative.

It's possible; but would a team like that be a contender? Is it worth all this squeezing and effort; just to keep a backup goalie on your bench?

Good luck to them; our price is not moving.
This is the kind of cap math that anybody taking on Luongo will face down the road. It will be even worse in the later stages of his contract when he is older with diminishing skills. Good luck trying to find a buyer for his contract then....

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01-19-2013, 12:24 PM
  #144
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That's what I think too. But better still just to have these Luongo talks die.
Better to keep the signal loud and clear.
Dear Dave Nonis:
Thankyou for passing on Luongo, may you have a long and prosperous career with the Leafs.

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01-19-2013, 12:27 PM
  #145
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The fact Leafs are likely beginning the season, against an arch rival opponent, with a 26 year old "free wallet", undrafted goalie, with 12 games of NHL experience only plays into Vancouver' s hand in terms of showing Toronto's hand as to what they believe they have in net.

Very few teams will be starting their backup goalies on opening night.

Scrivens will need to have a good game and Leafs win in order for Nonis to avoid shifting more power over to Gillis side of the negotiations. Either way claiming Leafs believe in Reimer is lost by designating him as a backup as the season opens.

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01-19-2013, 12:38 PM
  #146
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Not Winnin' for MacKinnon!

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01-19-2013, 12:41 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by devilishleafs View Post
Reimer is 24, Rynnas and Sparks, and whoever they want later down the road.
We will see about Reims this year. I truly hope he proves me wrong but I don't see it.

Rynnas most likely be ready for a starters position on a playoff contender 3-4 years down the road?We do want to be there by then right?

Sparks is even further away.

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01-19-2013, 12:50 PM
  #148
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Can someone post an old pick of Lou on the Panthers?

I'm on my phone

Once done, everyone take a good look and see how relieved you feel.

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01-19-2013, 12:52 PM
  #149
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...Rynnas is a year older than Reimer

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01-19-2013, 12:54 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
The fact Leafs are likely beginning the season, against an arch rival opponent, with a 26 year old "free wallet", undrafted goalie, with 12 games of NHL experience only plays into Vancouver' s hand in terms of showing Toronto's hand as to what they believe they have in net.

Very few teams will be starting their backup goalies on opening night.

Scrivens will need to have a good game and Leafs win in order for Nonis to avoid shifting more power over to Gillis side of the negotiations. Either way claiming Leafs believe in Reimer is lost by designating him as a backup as the season opens.
In fairness Reimer has not been playing during the lockout. I bet he has some rust to shake off

I disagree on Nonis having more power. If the Leafs need a netminder, there are 29 teams to trade with and UFA still out there. Maybe not as good as loungo.. But serviceable without a bad contract. Gillis has a very limited market for a big contract aging goalie.. And Nonis has a new three year contract meaning he doesnt have to make a desperate trade

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