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P.K. Subban Thread - Mk III - Unsigned Edition

View Poll Results: Who should break first
Bergevin 61 25.00%
Subban 183 75.00%
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Old
01-19-2013, 01:59 PM
  #876
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
When did Eberle become a "special" player? He's a good young player but I think Subban has a chance to be a top 5(in the NHL) d-man. Eberle will be a good player but I doubt he is ever considered one of the 5 best forwards in the NHL.

Short of getting a Stamkos Toews Crosby Malkin Kopitar Tavares Giroux you don't trade Subban.
Uhh when he scored 76 points in his second season at 21-years-old??

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01-19-2013, 02:01 PM
  #877
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At this point it would be nice to actually know what each side is asking for... The alleged amounts on both sides are unreasonable.


Disagree...
"Habs greatness"?
We've been a mediocre franchise for 2 decades now... Subban is the best young dman we've had since chelios in the 80's (Markov wasn't even close at the same age), and every indication is that he has the work ethic, commiment & attitude needed to continue improving.

He's exactly the type of player a smart GM locks up long term early (at less than what it will take to lock him up in 2-3 years, once he's really peaking), bc that then helps set the upper limit of what any other player can expect.

Subban at 5, 5.5, even 6m works great, assuming he remains the minute eating impact player he's become (in just 2years!), bc MB can use the holland approach of using that contract/player as the benchmark.

Datsyuk, zetterberg & Franzen all cost the wings less in part bc holland had lidstrom's contract/status as the benchmark


Stranger things have happened, wouldn't be the first time habs ownership meddled, and molson showed last year that he's very much "engaged" in the team...


That, or MB is trying to lowball...
We don't really know either way


Ppl seem to ignore the very simple fact that these athletes play a dangerous game...

If subban feels he's worth 5-6 even 7m, and he'd be stupid to settle for 1/2 that, even dumber to take a 2 year deal.

One bad hit in those two years and *pouf* there goes the 30-40 MILLION dollars he left on the table

It's easy to sit here and say we'd play "for free" or that he should be happy with his 2-3M $ /year even if he never earns another penny bc that "should" be more than enough for anyone...

But that isn't how our capitalist society works, nor how our brains work

He's got every right to wrestle every last penny out of the team, and to fault him for it under some utopic belief in the "history" of the franchise or the purity of the game is hogwash.

NHL is a business, plain and simple. He's a very talented employee of tremendous value to his company, and he's fighting for what he thinks he's worth... Good on him, too bad for us if it leads to him leaving town bc us fans are really the only ones who will "lose" (unless MB can land a kings ransom in return)
Again it all depends how much PK is asking for. Big difference between 5-6-7 million. If he wants to be paid like a top 10 D in the league he still has some things to prove. It's too early for that in his case.

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01-19-2013, 02:01 PM
  #878
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Let's try to follow the conversation ok? Subban does not get you Eberle in a trade, end of story.

Subban gets into a 2nd contract squawk with his GM and suddenly he's Orr.
Once again, a 1D is more valuable than a soft scoring winger.

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01-19-2013, 02:02 PM
  #879
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Uhh when he scored 76 points in his second season at 21-years-old??
that. the one that's overpaid in Edm is Taylor Hall.

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01-19-2013, 02:02 PM
  #880
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Eberle is soft? Since when?

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01-19-2013, 02:04 PM
  #881
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Eberle is soft? Since when?
The guy is clutch if anything!

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01-19-2013, 02:04 PM
  #882
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Eberle is soft? Since when?
Lol I was going to ask the same thing. I guess if you don't throw 200 hits, you're soft. Hitting isn't part of his game but that doesn't make him soft. ... Some people.

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01-19-2013, 02:04 PM
  #883
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Once again, a 1D is more valuable than a soft scoring winger.
What? This makes no sense. You are getting emotional.

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01-19-2013, 02:06 PM
  #884
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If Eberle is soft, then so are Plekanec, Gionta and Eller.

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01-19-2013, 02:07 PM
  #885
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If Eberle is soft, then so are Plekanec, Gionta and Eller.
And about half the players in the league!

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01-19-2013, 02:08 PM
  #886
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Eberle is the best player on the Oil. No, I'm not joking.

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01-19-2013, 02:11 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
What? This makes no sense. You are getting emotional.
Why, because I think Eberle is getting slightly overrated here?

I'm sorry, but I'm still not convinced Eberle is the best player on that team, let alone an elite winger. I think he's a great talent, but he also made over 60% of his starts last year in the offensive zone. Only RNH had softer minutes on that team last year.

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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
Lol I was going to ask the same thing. I guess if you don't throw 200 hits, you're soft. Hitting isn't part of his game but that doesn't make him soft. ... Some people.
The soft comment was hyperbole, because I find it funny that Agnostic, one of the biggest whiners about how soft the Habs are, thinks Eberle is more valuable than Subban.

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01-19-2013, 02:14 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Why, because I think Eberle is getting slightly overrated here?

I'm sorry, but I'm still not convinced Eberle is the best player on that team, let alone an elite winger. I think he's a great talent, but he also made over 60% of his starts last year in the offensive zone. Only RNH had softer minutes on that team last year.



The soft comment was hyperbole, because I find it funny that Agnostic, one of the biggest whiners about how soft the Habs are, thinks Eberle is more valuable than Subban.
He was PPG last year and you called him soft. Seemed irrational to me.

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01-19-2013, 02:16 PM
  #889
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Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
He was PPG last year and you called him soft. Seemed irrational to me.
He's soft compared to Subban, yes. I don't seriously consider him soft much the same way I don't consider Plekanec soft, but he's a non-factor physically.

Anyway, let me bring up what Pronman said about Eberle, before you all think I'm the only one who is skeptical about Eberle's superstar future. http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=310

Quote:
The Jordan Eberle extension is one that requires more of a debate. Eberle has been Edmonton’s leading scorer the last two seasons and had a 76 point season to his name before his 22nd birthday. The percentages he’s been riding is concerning though, he had an 18.9 shooting % last season, and a career 15.4 mark. He also had a team on-ice shooting percentage of 12.84% at even-strength this past season. It’s very rare for players not named Steven Stamkos to maintain that kind of shooting percentage and non-elite playmakers to have that kind of on-ice mark. Andrew Brunette and Alex Tanguay have shot that well but as low volume shooter throughout their careers.

Anyone I’ve ever asked that has scouted Eberle have raved about his shot and finishing ability. Given the significant amount of scouting information I have that points to him being a high-end shooter, and the fact he does have a career 15.4 % finishing mark through 338 shots, I think it’s reasonable to assume Eberle is a very good finisher. However even very good finishers tend not to shoot at that kind of rate, and while I think Eberle’s shooting % will regress, I don’t think his true talent shooting percentage is 10% or under, but historically most of the best shooters tend to finish a few points below Eberle’s career mark.

Eberle’s production last season has been aided by some luck (the high percentages), a 60.7 offensive zone start % and average competition faced. But the thing with him is, he was 21 last season. It’s very plausible as enters into his prime he’ll get more ice time, he will be able to log tougher minutes zone starts and competition wise and still maintain a positive possession flow while finishing at an above average rate. I think there’s significant evidence that Eberle most likely won’t be a star, but a player with his elite hockey sense, great puck skills and shot still has enough tools to be a consistent first line forward. I think the average annual value of six million he was given could be a slight overpay for that kind of player as a UFA, and certainly for an RFA, but I could see the argument he hits even value for 1 or 2 seasons in the six year extension.

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01-19-2013, 02:18 PM
  #890
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
Eberle is the best player on the Oil. No, I'm not joking.
You may not be joking, but you're wrong.

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01-19-2013, 02:20 PM
  #891
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
He's soft compared to Subban, yes. I don't seriously consider him soft much the same way I don't consider Plekanec soft, but he's a non-factor physically.

Anyway, let me bring up what Pronman said about Eberle, before you all think I'm the only one who is skeptical about Eberle's superstar future. http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=310
That article is interesting. Makes a good argument for a bridge contract no? For Subban as well!

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01-19-2013, 02:20 PM
  #892
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You may not be joking, but you're wrong.
No he's not.....Eberle was Edmonton best player last year and should be again this year.

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01-19-2013, 02:21 PM
  #893
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
He's soft compared to Subban, yes. I don't seriously consider him soft much the same way I don't consider Plekanec soft, but he's a non-factor physically.

Anyway, let me bring up what Pronman said about Eberle, before you all think I'm the only one who is skeptical about Eberle's superstar future. http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=310
You have to agree though that at every stage the guy's been clutch.

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01-19-2013, 02:22 PM
  #894
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
He's soft compared to Subban, yes. I don't seriously consider him soft much the same way I don't consider Plekanec soft, but he's a non-factor physically.

Anyway, let me bring up what Pronman said about Eberle, before you all think I'm the only one who is skeptical about Eberle's superstar future. http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=310
That's why I think it will be risky to sign Subban to a long term deal right now.

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01-19-2013, 02:23 PM
  #895
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You have to agree though that at every stage the guy's been clutch.
Yes, and personally I think Eberle will continue to improve, but the point being is I'm not convinced he's the best talent on the Oilers (and that's in part because they also have RNH, Hall and Yakupov), let alone someone I'd trade a 1D for.

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01-19-2013, 02:26 PM
  #896
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Yes, and personally I think Eberle will continue to improve, but the point being is I'm not convinced he's the best talent on the Oilers (and that's in part because they also have RNH, Hall and Yakupov), let alone someone I'd trade a 1D for.
Fair enough. I would like to see Hall for a full season. He's been out a lot and I might be under evaluating him.

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01-19-2013, 02:35 PM
  #897
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My issue with Subban is not that he's holding out - it's his right if he so wishes.
I just don't like the fact that he wants to be paid on potential and marketability alone. His body of work is no body, less than 200 games does not a body make. That's why bridge contracts exist, to give the player the opportunity to fulfill some of that potential.
He may have been the best Dman on the team last year, but that was a team that finished 3rd from the bottom and who's previous #1 was out for the season, arguably one can ask what kind of accomplishment is that?
PK and/or his agent need a dose of reality, take the rose colored glasses off and react accordingly, or he can sit out the year cuz he be worth it.
Either way, the choice is his

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01-19-2013, 02:38 PM
  #898
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Let's try to follow the conversation ok? Subban does not get you Eberle in a trade, end of story.

Subban gets into a 2nd contract squawk with his GM and suddenly he's Orr.
Why does one of the headier Oilers bloggers disagree with you? From the comments of this article : http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/7/29...-oel-is-a-wimp , the author notes that it would cost the Oilers MORE than Eberle to acquire Subban. I would presume this particular author knows more about Eberle than you do, and just as much, if not more about Subban. Suggestion for further reading : http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/4/12...omparisons-nhl

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01-19-2013, 02:44 PM
  #899
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My issue with Subban is not that he's holding out - it's his right if he so wishes.
I just don't like the fact that he wants to be paid on potential and marketability alone. His body of work is no body, less than 200 games does not a body make. That's why bridge contracts exist, to give the player the opportunity to fulfill some of that potential.
He may have been the best Dman on the team last year, but that was a team that finished 3rd from the bottom and who's previous #1 was out for the season, arguably one can ask what kind of accomplishment is that?
PK and/or his agent need a dose of reality, take the rose colored glasses off and react accordingly, or he can sit out the year cuz he be worth it.
Either way, the choice is his
Agree. He should sit.

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01-19-2013, 02:57 PM
  #900
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Why does one of the headier Oilers bloggers disagree with you? From the comments of this article : http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/7/29...-oel-is-a-wimp , the author notes that it would cost the Oilers MORE than Eberle to acquire Subban. I would presume this particular author knows more about Eberle than you do, and just as much, if not more about Subban. Suggestion for further reading : http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/4/12...omparisons-nhl
everyone can have a blog nowadays.

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