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Season ticket increase by 5%, total BS

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06-20-2006, 10:54 AM
  #26
VaFlyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenrubber
While the cap handcuffed big market teams spending, it quietly handed them 20-30 million in possible profits to the owners (Philly, NYR...etc).
Isn't there also profit sharing now, or did that not happen? Is so, some of that "profit" just went to another owner.

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06-20-2006, 12:32 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaFlyer
Isn't there also profit sharing now, or did that not happen? Is so, some of that "profit" just went to another owner.
While the exact numbers in the CBA are still "unofficial", profit sharing is only money generated in the playoffs. Secondly, it was believed to be small in nature comparatively to other successful profit sharing models like the NFL.

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Originally Posted by Jester
franchises "owe" nothing to the fans... you create the environment in which they operate. it's life. no business, franchise, etc. is there to be your friend. would it be nice if they were? yes. however, that's a utopia that we have yet to discover.

if you're going to spend time throwing outrage at an organization that does everything in its power to win every year, following sound economic principles... you're going to be huffing and puffing for the rest of your life.
Ironically enough, I wasn't criticizing their right to run a successful business.

The Flyers were one of the few organizations that would of had no problem re-approving the OLD CBA. Instead, a new economic model is handed to them with MILLIONS of more in profit. They were making it under the old system, and they are rolling in it w/ the new system. From this, they still aren't happy w/ the truck of money being dumped in their laps and they still have the audacity to increase ticket prices.

Unlike other fans that bemoan tickets should be half the price, I actually proposed a working model. A model where inflation can be negated through suite/club-level seats. Wachovia Center and the Flyers are on the best footed financial systems in the League and I find it absolutely PATHETIC for a storied franchise to push any increase to the fans at this particular time.

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06-20-2006, 06:23 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenrubber
Unlike other fans that bemoan tickets should be half the price, I actually proposed a working model. A model where inflation can be negated through suite/club-level seats. Wachovia Center and the Flyers are on the best footed financial systems in the League and I find it absolutely PATHETIC for a storied franchise to push any increase to the fans at this particular time.
a naive point of view... is my honest assesment of that. inflation has nothing to do with "what are people willing to spend." your model may work, but their model appears to be working perfectly well.

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06-21-2006, 12:07 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight25
Well it could be cost of living. Our economy has been crap since Bush took office(not to be off topic, and to be fair I voted for him...). Understand the amount of money we've sent down in the past YEAR to help Katrina is, from what I heard, 25% of what we spend on Iraq in a DAY. So you can guess how bad our economy is. Wit a crap economy, they'll need to raise prices. That and inflation's been bad. Look at gas prices, etc. There's a lot going wrong with our economy, and its affecting ALL BUSINESSES.
Apologies for carrying the discussion even further off topic, but I couldn't let this pass.
The economy is not crap. Not close, in fact. The economy is humming along.
Unemployment is down, the GDP is way up, the Dow is back around 11,000, consumer confidence is up, housing starts are up, etc. Most of the leading economic indicators say the economy is rock solid.
Really, the only downers in the current economy are energy prices and the spectre of inflation. However, the inflation numbers are a bit misleading because so much of the increase comes from just one sector of the economy: energy.
I'd also add that ticket prices are going up likely because the economy is doing well. When the economy is going strong, people have more disposable income. When people have more disposable income, they're more willing to part with it for things like hockey tickets. If people truly were worse off, rising ticket prices would be far less likely.

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06-21-2006, 08:36 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlRacki
Apologies for carrying the discussion even further off topic, but I couldn't let this pass.
The economy is not crap. Not close, in fact. The economy is humming along.
Unemployment is down, the GDP is way up, the Dow is back around 11,000, consumer confidence is up, housing starts are up, etc. Most of the leading economic indicators say the economy is rock solid.
Really, the only downers in the current economy are energy prices and the spectre of inflation. However, the inflation numbers are a bit misleading because so much of the increase comes from just one sector of the economy: energy.
I'd also add that ticket prices are going up likely because the economy is doing well. When the economy is going strong, people have more disposable income. When people have more disposable income, they're more willing to part with it for things like hockey tickets. If people truly were worse off, rising ticket prices would be far less likely.
I completely disagree with you regarding the state of the economy.

I work in industrial capital equipment sales and capital equipment sales are significantly down and many manufacturing plants are laying off people and/or completely shutting down.

One reason why unemployment is down is because many are giving up on job hunting. The unemployment number is based on people out of work who are actively looking for jobs. Once a person stops actively looking for a job that person is no longer considered unemployed.

I don't think you are correct about housing starts. According to the U.S. Census Bureau News, new building permits for May were down 2.1% from April 2006 and 8.5% lower than May of 2005. Private housing starts in May were up 5% from April, but 3.8% lower than May of 2005. Housing completions were down 8% from April and 10% lower than May of 2005.

In the Northeast alone, new privately-owned housing units started were down 12% from April and 21% from May 2005. Also, new privately-owned housing units completed were down 20% from April and 24.9% from May 2005.

Existing home appreciation has slowed considerably as well.

Consumer confidence rose for the first time since March, mainly due to gas prices starting to slightly decline. That said consumer spending is only expected to rise 2.5%, down from 5.2% in the first quarter. Retail sales grew at the slowest pace in 3 months.

GDP for the 2nd quarter will expand 3% for the 2nd quarter, down from 5.3% in the 1st.

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Old
06-21-2006, 09:17 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlRacki
Apologies for carrying the discussion even further off topic, but I couldn't let this pass.
The economy is not crap. Not close, in fact. The economy is humming along.
Unemployment is down, the GDP is way up, the Dow is back around 11,000, consumer confidence is up, housing starts are up, etc. Most of the leading economic indicators say the economy is rock solid.
Really, the only downers in the current economy are energy prices and the spectre of inflation. However, the inflation numbers are a bit misleading because so much of the increase comes from just one sector of the economy: energy.
I'd also add that ticket prices are going up likely because the economy is doing well. When the economy is going strong, people have more disposable income. When people have more disposable income, they're more willing to part with it for things like hockey tickets. If people truly were worse off, rising ticket prices would be far less likely.
the economy is FAR from rock solid...

we're also in debt up to our ears... good work by this administration. china is going to own half this country at the current rate.

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06-21-2006, 02:15 PM
  #32
CarlRacki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
the economy is FAR from rock solid...

we're also in debt up to our ears... good work by this administration. china is going to own half this country at the current rate.
Actually, Chinese investment in the United States is so low it doesn't even register with the Department of Commerce. Overall, Asian interests represent just 14 percent of all foreign investment in the U.S. Remember when everyone was convinced the Japanese would soon own half this country? Guess not.
China does hold a lot of U.S. debt, but that actually is beneficial to us. It keeps interest rates low and the dollar strong.

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06-21-2006, 02:17 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlRacki
China does hold a lot of U.S. debt, but that actually is beneficial to us. It keeps interest rates low and the dollar strong.
That may be, but they are also taking manufacturing jobs left and right as well.

Besides, why would China want to own this country when they can just take products that are patented and make them for a fraction of what it would cost us to make them?

BTW, the Fed has raised interest rates 16 straight times and is expected to raise it again to 5.25% so I'm not quite sure what you are saying about keeping interest rates low. I also don't think that the dollar is very strong either.


Last edited by pelts35.com: 06-21-2006 at 02:41 PM.
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Old
06-21-2006, 02:21 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlRacki
Actually, Chinese investment in the United States is so low it doesn't even register with the Department of Commerce. Overall, Asian interests represent just 14 percent of all foreign investment in the U.S. Remember when everyone was convinced the Japanese would soon own half this country? Guess not.
China does hold a lot of U.S. debt, but that actually is beneficial to us. It keeps interest rates low and the dollar strong.
being in debt is never good... and you're enjoying the smell of the flowers and not looking at the clouds on the other side of the hill.

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06-21-2006, 02:54 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelts35.com
I work in industrial capital equipment sales and capital equipment sales are significantly down and many manufacturing plants are laying off people and/or completely shutting down.
While I can't argue with your anecdotal evidence, orders for new durable goods - the backbone of the manufacturing industry, so to speak - have risen 11 percent this year over where we were a year ago. Shipments are up nearly 7 percent.

http://www.census.gov/indicator/www/.../pdf/durgd.pdf

Quote:
One reason why unemployment is down is because many are giving up on job hunting. The unemployment number is based on people out of work who are actively looking for jobs. Once a person stops actively looking for a job that person is no longer considered unemployed.
What you're talking about is something called the augmented unemployment rate, which measures both those actively seeking work and those not.
That figure, however, is also down according to the latest figures I could find, which seems to contradict your theory that more people are unemployed despite the numbers that say otherwise. In fact, according to the Dept. of Labor, there were 2.4 million more people working in May than there were at the start of 2006. Also, according to the department, the number of "discouraged" workers is down 17.7 percent from this time last year.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm


Quote:
I don't think you are correct about housing starts. According to the U.S. Census Bureau News, new building permits for May were down 2.1% from April 2006 and 8.5% lower than May of 2005. Private housing starts in May were up 5% from April, but 3.8% lower than May of 2005. Housing completions were down 8% from April and 10% lower than May of 2005.
Housing starts rose 5 percent in May, according to figures released Tuesday by the Dept. of Commerce. That and building permits issued are not synonymous. One is an indication of what is happening now, the other an indication of what might happen in the future.

Quote:
Existing home appreciation has slowed considerably as well.
That may very well be true, but it's a result of rising interests rates which, you may note, I did address in my initial post, not an economic slowdown. As I'm sure you know, when rates go up, housing markets cool. The bottom line is that the market HAD to slow from its torrid pace and said slowing is more a sign of a natural correction in the marketplace (much like the yech stock bubble finally going boom) than reason for panic.

Quote:
GDP for the 2nd quarter will expand 3% for the 2nd quarter, down from 5.3% in the 1st.
The basis for this statement is ... ???

Anyhow, I apologize again for keeping this way off topic. I won't post again not because I'm not interested in carrying out this discussion, but because it probably annoys the heck out of those who came here to discuss hockey. That is, after all, the board's intent.

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Old
06-21-2006, 03:03 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
being in debt is never good... and you're enjoying the smell of the flowers and not looking at the clouds on the other side of the hill.
I said I wouldn't post again and I'm going to mostly keep that promise. I'll simply suggest you do a little research on the benefits of debt. Don't get me wrong: there are many negatives as well and there's such a thing as too much debt, but some debt can actually be a good thing.

FWIW, the U.S. hasn't been debt free since 1835. And yet somehow the nation has survived.

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