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01-19-2013, 07:43 PM
  #251
sexyllama
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
I think I feel this way too. Even given my feelings toward the other prospects on this team.
I think we should also keep Harrington but that's probably just me...

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01-19-2013, 07:45 PM
  #252
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I think we should also keep Harrington but that's probably just me...
He might be on my list too, but I also don't think he's untouchable.

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01-19-2013, 07:47 PM
  #253
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I know Tangradi is a younger guy, don't doubt that I think he could someday be effective and fulfill his upside. I do like giving him a chance on top 6 right now, he just gets so much hype and I haven't seen it yet. I'm a little pre-judgmental, and I realize that. Just in past call ups I dislike him. I apologize though. I'm rooting for him, but I'm just not sure I see it yet. Again it's only the first game of the season, and I've come off a bit rash Burgandy and Ogre.

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01-19-2013, 07:47 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Dr Frasier Crane View Post
Don't want to come off as a Tangradi hater, but I don't see him doing anything that every bottom-6 guy can't do. I just don't see him having an NHL future in the top-6.

It seems to me that everyone is looking for him to do well, which is fine, but they're forgetting that pretty much everyone can do the things he's doing. I guess I just don't get it.
Because for some reason Tangradi is a cult hero around here. I'd love to see him be awesome, but the fact is, he isn't. He has NEVER done ANYTHING. Just a few pages ago someone recommended putting him on the 1st line and dropping Dupuis to the 3rd. The same Dupuis that scored 25 goals last year. I"ve honestly never seen so much devotion to a player that has what, 1 career goal? This is who we want as a winger for Sid or Geno? I'm with you dude, I just don't get it.

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01-19-2013, 07:48 PM
  #255
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Morrow and Bennett are the only prospects Id hesitate moving for an elite winger for Sid. If we're healthy and primed for a Cup come trade deadline, Im paying a hefty price to put us over the top.
Exactly.

With the parity in the NHL, if you have a move in place to make your team that much better, you do it.

I love when people say Despres, Maatta, Harrington, etc. are "untouchable". It's another example of fans becoming emotionally attached to prospects. They are assets, that is all. If the return earns us a Cup in the salary cap era, then any move is worth it...now and in the future.

There isn't much time, even with Geno and Sid to win the Cup. Any move that benefits us now should be taken.

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01-19-2013, 07:51 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by aSockalypse View Post
I know Tangradi is a younger guy, don't doubt that I think he could someday be effective and fulfill his upside. I do like giving him a chance on top 6 right now, he just gets so much hype and I haven't seen it yet. I'm a little pre-judgmental, and I realize that. Just in past call ups I dislike him. I apologize though. I'm rooting for him, but I'm just not sure I see it yet. Again it's only the first game of the season, and I've come off a bit rash Burgandy and Ogre.
no worries. I haven't seen anyone saying he's been great. He hasn't. He has a lot to learn still. If our ultimate goal was to win a single game tomorrow I wouldn't put him in that top 6 spot. But he has more potential to improve than anyone else we have to put in that spot other than Bennett. And waivers dictate that Tangradi gets the shot first at this point.

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01-19-2013, 07:52 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Dangles78 View Post
Exactly.

With the parity in the NHL, if you have a move in place to make your team that much better, you do it.

I love when people say Despres, Maatta, Harrington, etc. are "untouchable". It's another example of fans becoming emotionally attached to prospects. They are assets, that is all. If the return earns us a Cup in the salary cap era, then any move is worth it...now and in the future.

There isn't much time, even with Geno and Sid to win the Cup. Any move that benefits us now should be taken.
Agreed. Untouchable gets thrown around way too often.

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01-19-2013, 07:54 PM
  #258
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With the way our roster is shaping up. If Bortuzzo can keep progressing. Dumoulin makes his move to the NHL next season. Harrington is expendable. Not seeing how he cracks our roster next season, and with his play in the WJC and reputation as among the best defensive D-man in junior hockey, he'd be a good chip to land us what we need this season.

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01-19-2013, 07:54 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Agreed. Untouchable gets thrown around way too often.
Dipietro is untouchable.

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01-19-2013, 07:55 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
no worries. I haven't seen anyone saying he's been great. He hasn't. He has a lot to learn still. If our ultimate goal was to win a single game tomorrow I wouldn't put him in that top 6 spot. But he has more potential to improve than anyone else we have to put in that spot other than Bennett. And waivers dictate that Tangradi gets the shot first at this point.
I agree. Just with Geno and Sid our top 6 kind of calls for those elite wingers that are supposed to be there. Tangradi fits the prototype for the Malkin-Neal combo, he just needs to develop. No better way than experience. I think it's just a little more urgent for this year in the shorter season because points and division games mean so much more.

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01-19-2013, 07:55 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
With the way our roster is shaping up. If Bortuzzo can keep progressing. Dumoulin makes his move to the NHL next season. Harrington is expendable. Not seeing how he cracks our roster next season, and with his play in the WJC and reputation as among the best defensive D-man in junior hockey, he'd be a good chip to land us what we need this season.
if any combination of these kinds of kids can land us the top winger we want, I don't care which ones we move.

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01-19-2013, 07:56 PM
  #262
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It was mentioned before, but I think what the coaching staff sees in Despres is his ability to absorb hits and battle along the boards. Lets our team set up in the D-zone. His size and skating ability means he has upside. Upside that can be realized if given regular NHL minutes, like he's getting now.

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01-19-2013, 07:56 PM
  #263
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Dipietro is untouchable.

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01-19-2013, 07:57 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by aSockalypse View Post
I agree. Just with Geno and Sid our top 6 kind of calls for those elite wingers that are supposed to be there. Tangradi fits the prototype for the Malkin-Neal combo, he just needs to develop. No better way than experience. I think it's just a little more urgent for this year in the shorter season because points and division games mean so much more.
if we had good scoring wingers available I would pack Tangradi's bags and drive him down to WBS or to whichever team claimed him. But we don't. We have Tyler Kennedy and Matt Cooke.

The difference between Tangradi right now and either of those guys is small enough that it likely won't be costing us many games and the potential upside is worth that potential short term downgrade. And if it doesn't work out, we either make a trade or play Cooke or TK in that spot. Those guys are complete. They are what they are at this point. Either of them can step in after 20 games and play just as well as they would have if they started the season there. Tangradi, on the other hand, actually may be able to improve if given the opportunity. That's why I want him playing that spot.

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01-19-2013, 08:01 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
if any combination of these kinds of kids can land us the top winger we want, I don't care which ones we move.
I guess I should have explained that nobody is untouchable if Anaheim want to send us a Bobby Ryan, etc.

Every hockey player is an asset BUT some other team has to want them BAD enough to trade a proven LW/RW. I'm pretty sure it's not as EASY as:

1. Shero: "Hi, hey it's Ray over in Pittsburgh"
2. All other GM's: "Hey Ray, I'll give you whatever you want for whatever you want to pay"
3. Shero: "Thanks, I'll send a trade proposal for you to sign off on!"

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01-19-2013, 08:03 PM
  #266
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the things he's done aren't why we like him. It's the things we think he can do.
I guess I understand that. And I'm happy he's being given a chance on the 2nd line. But I'm still waiting.

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01-19-2013, 08:03 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Dr Frasier Crane View Post
I guess I understand that. And I'm happy he's being given a chance on the 2nd line. But I'm still waiting.
we all are. I'm just glad he's seemingly getting the chance. I think I just explained my reasoning for wanting him in that spot fairly well a few posts up.

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01-19-2013, 08:03 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
if any combination of these kinds of kids can land us the top winger we want, I don't care which ones we move.
It'd be tough to move Morrow. But the organization will have a better read on where he's at later in the season and how important he is to our future. I think he'll have a huge impact in due time. As will Bennett.

Maatta, Harrington, Pouliot are expendable in my eyes.

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01-19-2013, 08:05 PM
  #269
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Also prospects that make a mistake and dont score 6 goals or make 50 hits. Just ignore the things that happen away from the puck. They are irrelevant. It's only stats that matter.
Maybe the Isles will pick up B Schenn cheap when the Flyers get rid of him. Best fwd prospect in the league and he can't do **** in three periods.

B-u-s-t

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01-19-2013, 08:07 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
if we had good scoring wingers available I would pack Tangradi's bags and drive him down to WBS or to whichever team claimed him. But we don't. We have Tyler Kennedy and Matt Cooke.

The difference between Tangradi right now and either of those guys is small enough that it likely won't be costing us many games and the potential upside is worth that potential short term downgrade. And if it doesn't work out, we either make a trade or play Cooke or TK in that spot. Those guys are complete. They are what they are at this point. Either of them can step in after 20 games and play just as well as they would have if they started the season there. Tangradi, on the other hand, actually may be able to improve if given the opportunity. That's why I want him playing that spot.
I totally agree. I was about to say I used to like thinking that Kennedy could turn into a top 6 wing but he's turned out to be a (semi) gritty guy and occasional "that's what I thought he would be scorer". Really like Kennedy-Sutter-Cooke on the 3rd right now. I know that Tangradi hasn't had a full season, and this is finally it where he will get his chance at a top 6. I mean I'm a Pens fan I obviously hope that he turns in to all that we hope him to be, I just think there's too much hype on him for how his progression has gone since hitting minors. Curious to see how the top 6 winds up in the stretch.

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01-19-2013, 08:11 PM
  #271
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Maybe the Isles will pick up B Schenn cheap when the Flyers get rid of him. Best fwd prospect in the league and he can't do **** in three periods.

B-u-s-t
I didn't pay attention to him too much. Was he really that bad?

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01-19-2013, 08:12 PM
  #272
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I want the perfect winger for Sid, but I'm only willing to trade Kennedy, Martin and Tangradi.....

Y no 1 luv me? Lol, sorry I had to.

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01-19-2013, 08:14 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by aSockalypse View Post
I totally agree. I was about to say I used to like thinking that Kennedy could turn into a top 6 wing but he's turned out to be a (semi) gritty guy and occasional "that's what I thought he would be scorer). Really like Kennedy-Sutter-Cooke on the 3rd right now. I know that Tangradi hasn't had a full season, and this is finally it where he will get his chance at a top 6. I mean I'm a Pens fan I obviously hope that he turns in to all that we hope him to be, I just think there's too much hype on him for how his progression has gone since hitting minors. Curious to see how the top 6 winds up in the stretch.
I think most here can agree with you but I don't see the Tangradi should play as "hype." At some point, a prospect needs some extended game time without looking over his shoulder to see if he can step up and play. (See most of the Philly youngsters last year... they had very horrible stretches in the middle of the year) I'm pretty sure it's a make or break YEAR for Tangradi.

Who do we think is coming up from the WBS? BB is not ready at all. You could tell from the scrimmage. One play does not make you a full-time NHL'r. Who then? J Smegma? KV? I've complained that we should have traded to get another high end LW/RW prospect. Why? We only have BB...

Next up... Trade but it takes TWO to Tango.

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01-19-2013, 08:15 PM
  #274
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I didn't pay attention to him too much. Was he really that bad?
He was, not impressive, lets just say that.

It's all about patience and perspective with prospects.

Unfortunately this is the instant gratification generation.

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01-19-2013, 08:16 PM
  #275
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Exactly.

With the parity in the NHL, if you have a move in place to make your team that much better, you do it.

I love when people say Despres, Maatta, Harrington, etc. are "untouchable". It's another example of fans becoming emotionally attached to prospects. They are assets, that is all. If the return earns us a Cup in the salary cap era, then any move is worth it...now and in the future.

There isn't much time, even with Geno and Sid to win the Cup. Any move that benefits us now should be taken.
When you trade a prospect under this CBA framework you're giving up multiple years of an asset at less than it's true value. In the cap era those guys are worth their weight in gold and in fact it seems the best formula to build a team good enough to win the Cup is to have several guys significantly outperforming ELCs or RFA deals. Under that system these young guys with good upside have immense value potential. You don't give them up lightly for a two month rental.

You can gladly part with Harrington or Maatta, but I doubt they would be the centerpiece in a deal to land you the big fish. You're probably talking Morrow or Pouliot which would be much harder to do. And imo Bennett is untouchable, can't give up our only viable wing prospect.

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