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Ken Holland less than confident

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Old
01-19-2013, 08:58 PM
  #201
Marky9er
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
A supposedly smarter team in St. Louis signed Wade Redden

Fire Holland.
Hire Burke?

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01-19-2013, 09:55 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Marky9er View Post
Hire Burke?
Glad Gus and Tatar isn't playing, they'd get their heads ripped off with their tiny size. Look at Mursak.

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01-19-2013, 09:59 PM
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
A supposedly smarter team in St. Louis signed Wade Redden

Fire Holland.
Truly a ridiculous move, signing a former NHL All Star to a 1 year, $1M contract to play the #8 Dman position.

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01-19-2013, 10:02 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Glad Gus and Tatar isn't playing, they'd get their heads ripped off with their tiny size. Look at Mursak.
The entire team got bullied all game. Backes could hurt anyone on our team with a full head of steam.

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01-19-2013, 10:06 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Marky9er View Post
Hire Burke?
Burke is no better than Holland. They both suffer from tunnel vision and have shown little ability to adapt their management philosophy as needed. Holland stuck with his "loyalty to veterans" philosophy, and Burke stuck with his "toughness is the priority" philosophy. Unfortunately, with so many teams capable of winning, Holland's philosophy no longer works as players have more options of joining a winning club, and with speed and skill being the competitive difference, so is Burke's philosophy.

We need someone with the cool headed temperament of Holland, but the balls to make shake-up trades like Burke - two features that, when combined, give you someone who doesn't make reactionary trades, but doesn't stand pat so long it becomes a detriment.

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01-19-2013, 10:19 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Burke is no better than Holland. They both suffer from tunnel vision and have shown little ability to adapt their management philosophy as needed. Holland stuck with his "loyalty to veterans" philosophy, and Burke stuck with his "toughness is the priority" philosophy. Unfortunately, with so many teams capable of winning, Holland's philosophy no longer works as players have more options of joining a winning club, and with speed and skill being the competitive difference, so is Burke's philosophy.

We need someone with the cool headed temperament of Holland, but the balls to make shake-up trades like Burke - two features that, when combined, give you someone who doesn't make reactionary trades, but doesn't stand pat so long it becomes a detriment.
Shake up trades like Kessel for Seguin and Hamilton?

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01-19-2013, 10:25 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Vladdy84 View Post
Shake up trades like Kessel for Seguin and Hamilton?
A "shake up" trade is hardly a crappy team trying to rush the rebuilding process by making an ill-advised, moronic, narcissism-induced trade. In fact, its not even indicative of the kind of trades Burke typically makes - trading for one of the softest players in the entire league. Relevant here for the purposes of a straw-man argument, though.

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01-19-2013, 10:29 PM
  #208
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FYI all - we're not going to have personal attacks and flame wars in here.

If you can't argue with civility, don't argue.

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01-19-2013, 10:42 PM
  #209
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So we lost a game when we played flat. Surprise Surprise.

Welcome back to the NHL.

Going to be an interesting next couple of games.

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01-19-2013, 10:54 PM
  #210
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Well if we are a bad team which is quite possible, then this is a great year to suck because its only 48 games and the pain will be over quickly.

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01-19-2013, 11:01 PM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Burke is no better than Holland. They both suffer from tunnel vision and have shown little ability to adapt their management philosophy as needed. Holland stuck with his "loyalty to veterans" philosophy, and Burke stuck with his "toughness is the priority" philosophy. Unfortunately, with so many teams capable of winning, Holland's philosophy no longer works as players have more options of joining a winning club, and with speed and skill being the competitive difference, so is Burke's philosophy.

We need someone with the cool headed temperament of Holland, but the balls to make shake-up trades like Burke - two features that, when combined, give you someone who doesn't make reactionary trades, but doesn't stand pat so long it becomes a detriment.
Some of the thugs Burke might bring in would actually improve the mix lol. I was only joking about Burke, clearly the best choice would be Alex Anthopolous. For the record I wasn't endorsing firing Holland, just curious what alternatives they had in mind.

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01-19-2013, 11:12 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
A supposedly smarter team in St. Louis signed Wade Redden

Fire Holland.
Ken Holland inherited a cup winning roster in 98, used the same nucleus and basically unlimited and unrivaled spending power to secure hall of famers who were coming here regardless in 2002, and had a few Hakan Anderson Gems pan out for him in 2008, of which he can take NO credit for. Rafalski was a good move, but he was a Detroit boy and was probably coming here regardless. His last GREAT signing was Hossa, and even then Hossa's agent called Holland, not the other way around. Holland wasn't even considering signing Hossa, Hossa is the one who initiated it. This man gets too much undeserved credit and his overripe philosophy is running this team into the ground. His extensions on dime a dozen players like Eaves are above free agent market value and generally are for far too long relative to where this team will be. Is anybody really excited we have Bertuzzi for one more year after this?

The worst thing is, he isn't even trying to get creative. Sure he went and tried to sign Suter (lowballed him), but he didn't have much of a backup plan. In today's NHL you can't wait till free agency, it isnt a sure thing. He probably thought keeping the cap space open would be good for Edler next offseason, but guess who just extended with the Canucks? After we lost out on Parise and Suter, why not try and sign Semin for 1 year 6.5 mil? Maybe it works out, maybe it doesnt, but if it does we suddenly have another 35 goal guy and if it doesnt some billionaire who is going to die soon anyways just ended up wasting what he considers chump change.

Heck, he didn't even take a flyer at Wade Redden, a former all-star for a 1 year 800k deal that St. Louis just got him for. Say what you want about Redden, but the only reason he was in the AHL was his 6 million dollar salary. He is overrated but still much better than Carlo Col. Or maybe instead of letting him rot in the minors, Holland actually allowed Smith to ease into the NHL and be tutored by Lidstrom, instead of bringing him up to a top 4 role after a whopping 15 games of NHL experience.

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01-19-2013, 11:15 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Marky9er View Post
Some of the thugs Burke might bring in would actually improve the mix lol. I was only joking about Burke, clearly the best choice would be Alex Anthopolous. For the record I wasn't endorsing firing Holland, just curious what alternatives they had in mind.
I've never thought highly of Burke, but you're right in that some of the things Burke would do might actually improve us. My point was kind of that Holland and Burke are at opposite ends of the spectrum. We need something in between - a GM who isn't an extremist in ANY respect.

Who is Alex Anthopolous?

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01-19-2013, 11:20 PM
  #214
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IMO, Holland is the most overrated GM in hockey. Like EZBake stated, he inherited a team with a great nucleus and rode that nucleus to Stanley cups. No problem with that. I did have a problem since the 2008 cup, where we did nothing but sit on our hands. For being the best GM, I sure can't come up with any player to player trades that he's won within the last 5 years. Holland has resorted to keep the same roster year after year and when a player retires, he adds a player like a Miller or Eaves who really are AHL players.

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01-19-2013, 11:21 PM
  #215
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I get a kick out of the Redden talk.

He wasn't even on the ice tonight, and even if he's serviceable he's not enough to make a difference in that game.

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01-19-2013, 11:25 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
I've never thought highly of Burke, but you're right in that some of the things Burke would do might actually improve us. My point was kind of that Holland and Burke are at opposite ends of the spectrum. We need something in between - a GM who isn't an extremist in ANY respect.

Who is Alex Anthopolous?
The GM of the Blue Jays.....who was probably more hated than Holland before he fleeced the Marlins and signed a Cy Young winning knuckleballer. I guess it's a Toronto centric joke, sorry.

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01-19-2013, 11:29 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
I get a kick out of the Redden talk.

He wasn't even on the ice tonight, and even if he's serviceable he's not enough to make a difference in that game.
Just because he isn't a gamebreaker doesn't mean he wasn't worth the risk. Even if he improves the team marginally over Kindl, why not? It's a team sport for a reason, you could say Crosby wouldn't be enough to make a difference in tonight's game and you'd technically be right.

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