HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

All Encompassing Tanking/Rebuilding/Selling at Deadline Thread 2.0

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-20-2013, 02:58 AM
  #26
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,007
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Approved. Moderators, please follow Lafleur's suggestion.

I would have responded earlier but I was on a 15-hour flight, Los Angeles to Sydney. I hope the thread is not too advanced to change the title.
Bet the flight was enjoyable. I especially love the HK to Toronto 15 hour torture special myself, with my 4 year old daughter.

bsl is offline  
Old
01-20-2013, 03:10 AM
  #27
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
that's exactly the problem: it's all about assumptions.
That's the way projections work ...

You make predictions even though there are always uncertainties.

DAChampion is online now  
Old
01-20-2013, 03:12 AM
  #28
ECWHSWI
P.K. is perfect.
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
That's the way projections work ...

You make predictions even though there are always uncertainties.
and yet, in a previous reply to me, you're talking about facts...

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
01-20-2013, 03:12 AM
  #29
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Bet the flight was enjoyable. I especially love the HK to Toronto 15 hour torture special myself, with my 4 year old daughter.
Actually I figured out how to make the flight less painful.

I slept two hour the night before, and then I stayed up ~24 hours before boarding the plane, because I first had to do Fort Lauderdale - Los Angeles, then had a 10 hour layover, then had a 2 hour delay.

So, since I was sleep deprived, and it was an A380 which is more comfortable than most, I was able to fall asleep on the plane.

By the way, the window seats on the A380, at least that A380, are way better than the aisle seats.

DAChampion is online now  
Old
01-20-2013, 03:14 AM
  #30
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,007
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
You know Boston traded one of their best young players the year before winning the cup right ?
Thanks for accidentally supporting the rebuild then contend argument.

Most of us have explicitly stated that a short, intelligent two year surgical rebuild should be followed by a year of development, followed by contending.

Most of us have also stated that at no time during the 3-4 year rebuild and early contention phase should you trade quality youth or high picks. You will need this talented youth in the true contending years.

We instead have stated more than once, should you bother to check, that when the true contending stage is achieved, in other words consistent top 6 status, over 2 years, with late playoff runs that do not depend only on luck, that is acceptable in that year or two cup window to trade picks or youth for the additional talented Vet that may win you a cup.

This is an ongoing and complex discussion, please refer to older threads to get yourself up to speed on this topic, and you are of course welcome to debate!

bsl is offline  
Old
01-20-2013, 03:18 AM
  #31
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
5 of the 6 players you named have some form of NTC/NMC...
Plekanec, as an example, has come on record as saying he wouldn't veto a trade to a contender.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
So what you're saying is Galchenyuk will developp better playing with Scrubs 20 minutes a night than if he has to play 10/15 with guys like Plekanec (for example) ?
He can be the go-to guy on a line with Desharnais and Pacioretty, or Eller and Gallagher, or whatever. He'll develop better in that manner.

Notice Galchenyuk only played 13 minutes last night

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
and yet, in a previous reply to me, you're talking about facts...
You're very confused ...

Probability distributions are derived from facts. And in turn, nearly all facts come with uncertainties.

For example, I can tell you you're probably going to lose money on a lottery ticket. That's a fact, even if it comes with an error.

DAChampion is online now  
Old
01-20-2013, 03:28 AM
  #32
ECWHSWI
P.K. is perfect.
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Plekanec, as an example, has come on record as saying he wouldn't veto a trade to a contender.


He can be the go-to guy on a line with Desharnais and Pacioretty, or Eller and Gallagher, or whatever. He'll develop better in that manner.

Notice Galchenyuk only played 13 minutes last night



You're very confused ...

Probability distributions are derived from facts. And in turn, nearly all facts come with uncertainties.

For example, I can tell you you're probably going to lose money on a lottery ticket. That's a fact, even if it comes with an error.
Confused ? huh, considering you're the one talking about hockey and drafting as if it was a somewhat exact science... confused ? really...


look at all the contenders (not that there is that many) and tell me, wich ones are in dire needs of a 1st or 2nd line C ?


Galchenuys is in a learning phase, stripping the team from good vets pertty much guarantees he'll have no one to learn from - so to speak, and he'll develop better that way ? really ? comments like this makes me wonder if were involved in any sport, in any capacity, at any point in your life... seriously...


I suggest you get your facts straight.

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
01-20-2013, 03:29 AM
  #33
damacles1156
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 12,166
vCash: 500
No one losses on purpose,

The Kings simply traded away pieces that would increase chances of winning that were not part of a planed core.

I believe Chicago and Pitt did the same. All those teams stock piled draft picks; cause you are going to have some busts.

damacles1156 is offline  
Old
01-20-2013, 03:35 AM
  #34
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Thanks for accidentally supporting the rebuild then contend argument.

Most of us have explicitly stated that a short, intelligent two year surgical rebuild should be followed by a year of development, followed by contending.

Most of us have also stated that at no time during the 3-4 year rebuild and early contention phase should you trade quality youth or high picks. You will need this talented youth in the true contending years.

We instead have stated more than once, should you bother to check, that when the true contending stage is achieved, in other words consistent top 6 status, over 2 years, with late playoff runs that do not depend only on luck, that is acceptable in that year or two cup window to trade picks or youth for the additional talented Vet that may win you a cup.

This is an ongoing and complex discussion, please refer to older threads to get yourself up to speed on this topic, and you are of course welcome to debate!
Realistic timeline for a surgical rebuild:

2012-2013:
- Trade away a couple veterans near the deadline, whoever is willing to trade his NTC and whoever can extract good value on the trade market.
- Give a lot of ice time wherever appropriate to our prize prospects.
- Draft a top-6 pick in the 1st round (Jones, Lindholm, Monahan, Mackinnon, Druin, Barkov), draft good guys with our three 2nd round picks, also use up an additional 1st and 2nd rounder if we're lucky from our sales.
- On the UFA market, throw gold at players like Corey Perry. If we can't get the best guys, move on. Don't settle for offering good contracts to your second choices as Gainey used to do. At best, offer some overpriced 1-year contracts as a low risk high reward option.

2013-2014:
- Go for 8th place. No young teams ever make noise in the playoffs on their first shot, but it's a good learning experience. See the Pittsburgh Penguins being eliminated by the Ottawa Senators a few years back in round 1.
- Beaulieu, Tinordi, Ellis, Kristo, etc should be putting together a great campaign in Hamilton. Leave them there for further maturation, but give them 4-game callups for development purposes, with easy minutes, and send them back down.
- Galchenyuk needs to be put in a position to do very well, even at the expense of the rest of the team.
- On the UFA market, throw gold at players like Evgeni Malkin. If we can't get the best guys, move on. Don't settle for offering good contracts to your second choices as Gainey used to do.


2014-2015
- All six of our veteran contracts (Plekanec, Markov, Gionta, Bourque, Cole, Kaberle) have now expired or been traded away hopefully, clearing 28 million in cap space. Hopefully we've rocked the UFA market by now.
- Galchenyuk and Eller are now our 1st and 2nd line centers. Any 2 of Tinordi, Beaulieu, Ellis, Diaz, should be among our bottom-4 dmen.
- Our top-6 pick from the 2013 draft should be contributing in a secondary capacity.
- Subban, Pacioretty, Price, and Emelin are in their prime.
- Out of Collberg, Kristo, our additional picks from 2013, Bozon, Hudon, (that's 7 guys) we should hopefully have two contributing in a secondary capacity.
- This team is not a favorite to win the cup, but it's a dark horse.

2015-2016-2017-2018
- Make appropriate changes to have a team that is a favorite to win the cup, of the type such as LA trading Jack Johnson for Jeff Carter. Hopefully as good as teams like Los Angeles, New York, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, etc are this year.

DAChampion is online now  
Old
01-20-2013, 03:43 AM
  #35
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,007
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Actually I figured out how to make the flight less painful.

I slept two hour the night before, and then I stayed up ~24 hours before boarding the plane, because I first had to do Fort Lauderdale - Los Angeles, then had a 10 hour layover, then had a 2 hour delay.

So, since I was sleep deprived, and it was an A380 which is more comfortable than most, I was able to fall asleep on the plane.

By the way, the window seats on the A380, at least that A380, are way better than the aisle seats.
Admirable. You are extremely systematic, and act to optimize your comfort in circumstances that provide a wider variation in comfort than most people realize.

Witness those in middle of the center row of seats during such flights. These are people who take no action to control their circumstances. I pity them. What happens in the rest of their lives, I am afraid to imagine.

I first request emergency exit seats, due to my 'bad back', long legs and possible psychotic loss of temper during long flights. This works well quite often.

If this fails, I go for window on the 747 last 3 rows, which only have 2 seats, with the request to leave the neighboring seat open as long as possible. They generally fill the back last.

I will though adapt to last minute circumstances and check all options. If I cajole the check in agent, they will tell me if there are empty middle rows. If this is the case, I will request an aisle seat on an empty middle row and sometimes end up with 4 seats. This is rare, but it can occur.

As for sitting at the back, you also have much less chance of being engulfed in agonizing flames from the 300 pounds of kerosene remaining in and jetting from the wings during impact and ignition, or being crushed by 200 people, seats and toilets/bulkheads behind you moving at 200 miles per hour when the plane smashes into the tarmac with no wheels and loses speed too fast for anyone/anything to resist the forces applied.

The tail also breaks off quite often in such circumstances, and if your belt is tight enough, and mine always is on landing, you can watch the rest of the exploding fiery craft hurtle away from you down the runway, while you sit in the broken off fire free tail end, already slowing safely to a halt, and conveniently near the back exit.

Then there is being liquified in the first ten rows as the plane nosedives. This is grim social justice for those in business and first, the 1% getting theirs, although of course I accept the risk of being liquified as a trade off for massive additional comfort when flying business. At least I will be liquified while drinking a good glass of Cabernet.

I also board very last of course, to minimize my on craft time, and also to give those unfortunates sitting over the fiery death wings time to stow their 5 bags of duty free shopping, goats, and live chickens in the overhead bins.

I was not aware of the optimal seat architecture on the 380, as I have only flown it once, Korea-HK. I will watch for this, thanks for the tip.


Last edited by bsl: 01-20-2013 at 04:02 AM.
bsl is offline  
Old
01-20-2013, 03:47 AM
  #36
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
a somewhat exact science
I'm a postdoctoral fellow in astrophysics.

Uncertainty is part of science and part of life, so I'm not bothered if things are not exact. I assume expectations and assume uncertainties.

If you wait for guarantees, you'll be waiting a long time and life will pass you by. Waiting for guarantees makes you the loser who stands alone and has his back to the wall.

You need to maximize your odds and move forward. That's all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
look at all the contenders (not that there is that many) and tell me, wich ones are in dire needs of a 1st or 2nd line C ?
Chicago Blackhawks, St-Louis Blues, and Washington Capitals are three teams that would benefit from Plekanec this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Galchenuys is in a learning phase, stripping the team from good vets pertty much guarantees he'll have no one to learn from - so to speak, and he'll develop better that way ? really ?
Nobody is arguing that there should be no veterans on the team.

DAChampion is online now  
Old
01-20-2013, 03:49 AM
  #37
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,113
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Thanks for accidentally supporting the rebuild then contend argument.

Most of us have explicitly stated that a short, intelligent two year surgical rebuild should be followed by a year of development, followed by contending.

Most of us have also stated that at no time during the 3-4 year rebuild and early contention phase should you trade quality youth or high picks. You will need this talented youth in the true contending years.

We instead have stated more than once, should you bother to check, that when the true contending stage is achieved, in other words consistent top 6 status, over 2 years, with late playoff runs that do not depend only on luck, that is acceptable in that year or two cup window to trade picks or youth for the additional talented Vet that may win you a cup.

This is an ongoing and complex discussion, please refer to older threads to get yourself up to speed on this topic, and you are of course welcome to debate!
If we are so bad that we finish in the basement two years in a row how do we suddenly go from that to contending in 2 years? Do you really think a 20 year old Galchenyuk and a 19 year old Mackinnon/Jones are good enough to turn a bottom dweller into a contender?

Sorinth is offline  
Old
01-20-2013, 03:51 AM
  #38
ECWHSWI
P.K. is perfect.
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
No one losses on purpose,

The Kings simply traded away pieces that would increase chances of winning that were not part of a planed core.

I believe Chicago and Pitt did the same. All those teams stock piled draft picks; cause you are going to have some busts.
Kings traded youth for youth, they traded players in their early 20 for a +/- 25 years old Richards... and then traded a 25 yo Johnson for another 25 years old, Carter...

the Pens drafted top 5 five years in a row (Whitney, Fleury, Crosby, Malkin, Crosby)... and you can easily make the case for two of them being generational talents... in comparison, for the Habs to do that, they'd have to finish 26th or lower till the 16/17 season...

Chicago, the last time the Hawks got two picks or more in the first round before their cup win was in 2000*, they had two, two guys who played a combined 110 games in the NHL... they had more than a 2nd rounder multiple times, the best of the bunch, Bolland, was their own pick, the second best played for the Habs last season, Mike Blunden...

the "trade vets for extra picks" sure doesnt apply to them.


* same for Pens, last time they had two picks in the top 30 was in the late 80's / just to add, last time they had two 2nd round picks in the same draft was in 99', one of them never played the NHL, the other played around 50 games...

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
01-20-2013, 03:51 AM
  #39
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Admirable. You are extremely systematic, and act to optimize your comfort in circumstances that provide a wider variation in comfort than most people realize.

Witness those in middle of the center row of seats during such flights. These are people who take no action to control their circumstances. I pity them. What happens in the rest of their lives, I am afraid to imagine.

I first request emergency exit seats, due to my 'bad back', long legs and possible psychotic loss of temper during long flights. This works well quite often.

If this fails, I go for window on the 747 last 3 rows, which only have 2 seats, with the request to leave the neighboring seat open as long as possible. They generally fill the back last.

I will though adapt to last minute circumstances and check all options. If I cajole the check in agent, they will tell me if there are empty middle rows. If this is the case, I will request an aisle seat on an empty middle row and sometimes end up with 4 seats. This is rare, but it can occur.

As for sitting at the back, you also have much less chance of being engulfed in agonizing flames from the 300 pounds of kerosene remaining in and jetting from the wings during impact and ignition, or being crushed by 200 people behind you moving at 200 miles per hour when the plane smashes into the tarmac with no wheels and loses speed too fast for anyone to resist the forces applied.

The tail also breaks off quite often in such circumstances, and if your belt is tight enough, and mine always is on landing, you can watch the rest of the exploding fiery craft hurtle away from you down the runway, while you sit in the broken off tail end, already slowing safely to a halt, and conveniently near the back exit.

Then there is being liquified in the first ten rows as the plane nosedives. This is grim social justice for those in business and first, the 1% getting theirs, although of course I accept the risk of being liquified as a trade off for massive additional comfort when flying business. At least I will be liquified while drinking a good glass of Cabernet.

I also board very last of course, to minimize my on craft time, and also to let those sitting over the fiery death wings time to stow their 5 bags of duty free shopping, goats, and live chickens in the overhead bins.

I was not aware of the optimal seat architecture on 380s, as I have only flown it once, Korea-HK. I will watch for this, thanks for the tip.
Good post.

DAChampion is online now  
Old
01-20-2013, 03:52 AM
  #40
damacles1156
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 12,166
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Kings traded youth for youth, they traded players in their early 20 for a +/- 25 years old Richards... and then traded a 25 yo Johnson for another 25 years old, Carter...

the Pens drafted top 5 five years in a row (Whitney, Fleury, Crosby, Malkin, Crosby)... and you can easily make the case for two of them being generational talents... in comparison, for the Habs to do that, they'd have to finish 26th or lower till the 16/17 season...

Chicago, the last time the Hawks got two picks or more in the first round before their cup win was in 2000*, they had two, two guys who played a combined 110 games in the NHL... they had more than a 2nd rounder multiple times, the best of the bunch, Bolland, was their own pick, the second best played for the Habs last season, Mike Blunden...

the "trade vets for extra picks" sure doesnt apply to them.


* same for Pens, last time they had two picks in the top 30 was in the late 80's / just to add, last time they had two 2nd round picks in the same draft was in 99', one of them never played the NHL, the other played around 50 games...
Not during the Rebuild, The Kings unloaded most of the vets for Draft picks.

Blake-Visnosky-Norrstrom-Cammy(not part of the core) .

The Kings unloaded a lot of older players for picks .

People also forget that, luck have it The previous GM Struck gold with Kopitar/Brown/Quick. But That was after Taylor failed to progress the Kings in the playoff's and decided to start keeping his picks.

Then he was fired, and Lombardi Came in with full control and support of a proper rebuild.

Once the Kings traded for Richards, the rebuild was over.


Last edited by damacles1156: 01-20-2013 at 04:02 AM.
damacles1156 is offline  
Old
01-20-2013, 04:00 AM
  #41
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Kings traded youth for youth, they traded players in their early 20 for a +/- 25 years old Richards... and then traded a 25 yo Johnson for another 25 years old, Carter...

the Pens drafted top 5 five years in a row (Whitney, Fleury, Crosby, Malkin, Crosby)... and you can easily make the case for two of them being generational talents... in comparison, for the Habs to do that, they'd have to finish 26th or lower till the 16/17 season...

Chicago, the last time the Hawks got two picks or more in the first round before their cup win was in 2000*, they had two, two guys who played a combined 110 games in the NHL... they had more than a 2nd rounder multiple times, the best of the bunch, Bolland, was their own pick, the second best played for the Habs last season, Mike Blunden...

the "trade vets for extra picks" sure doesnt apply to them.


* same for Pens, last time they had two picks in the top 30 was in the late 80's / just to add, last time they had two 2nd round picks in the same draft was in 99', one of them never played the NHL, the other played around 50 games...
The Pittsburgh, Chicago, and Edmonton rebuilds were non-surgical.

DAChampion is online now  
Old
01-20-2013, 04:01 AM
  #42
ECWHSWI
P.K. is perfect.
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I'm a postdoctoral fellow in astrophysics.

Uncertainty is part of science and part of life, so I'm not bothered if things are not exact. I assume expectations and assume uncertainties.

If you wait for guarantees, you'll be waiting a long time and life will pass you by. Waiting for guarantees makes you the loser who stands alone and has his back to the wall.

You need to maximize your odds and move forward. That's all.


Chicago Blackhawks, St-Louis Blues, and Washington Capitals are three teams that would benefit from Plekanec this year.


Nobody is arguing that there should be no veterans on the team.
That post doc sure doesnt make you an expert in sports... if anything, had you put more thoughts into it you'd realise that "1 year surgical tank" is basically asking for the exception to happen.

the odds arent there. It's only on paper, you will not find a single case of "surgical tank" that worked in the NHL. Huh no, you can find one, thing is, it involves one of the best player in history (Lemieux)... good luck repeating that!


one of them is NOT a contender. That leaves you two teams you could probably trade Plekanec for... good luck getting a great prospect or a great pick. And I'm not sure I'd put Hawks in the contender category.

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
01-20-2013, 04:01 AM
  #43
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,113
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Realistic timeline for a surgical rebuild:

2012-2013:
- Trade away a couple veterans near the deadline, whoever is willing to trade his NTC and whoever can extract good value on the trade market.
- Give a lot of ice time wherever appropriate to our prize prospects.
- Draft a top-6 pick in the 1st round (Jones, Lindholm, Monahan, Mackinnon, Druin, Barkov), draft good guys with our three 2nd round picks, also use up an additional 1st and 2nd rounder if we're lucky from our sales.
- On the UFA market, throw gold at players like Corey Perry. If we can't get the best guys, move on. Don't settle for offering good contracts to your second choices as Gainey used to do. At best, offer some overpriced 1-year contracts as a low risk high reward option.

2013-2014:
- Go for 8th place. No young teams ever make noise in the playoffs on their first shot, but it's a good learning experience. See the Pittsburgh Penguins being eliminated by the Ottawa Senators a few years back in round 1.
- Beaulieu, Tinordi, Ellis, Kristo, etc should be putting together a great campaign in Hamilton. Leave them there for further maturation, but give them 4-game callups for development purposes, with easy minutes, and send them back down.
- Galchenyuk needs to be put in a position to do very well, even at the expense of the rest of the team.
- On the UFA market, throw gold at players like Evgeni Malkin. If we can't get the best guys, move on. Don't settle for offering good contracts to your second choices as Gainey used to do.


2014-2015
- All six of our veteran contracts (Plekanec, Markov, Gionta, Bourque, Cole, Kaberle) have now expired or been traded away hopefully, clearing 28 million in cap space. Hopefully we've rocked the UFA market by now.
- Galchenyuk and Eller are now our 1st and 2nd line centers. Any 2 of Tinordi, Beaulieu, Ellis, Diaz, should be among our bottom-4 dmen.
- Our top-6 pick from the 2013 draft should be contributing in a secondary capacity.
- Subban, Pacioretty, Price, and Emelin are in their prime.
- Out of Collberg, Kristo, our additional picks from 2013, Bozon, Hudon, (that's 7 guys) we should hopefully have two contributing in a secondary capacity.
- This team is not a favorite to win the cup, but it's a dark horse.

2015-2016-2017-2018
- Make appropriate changes to have a team that is a favorite to win the cup, of the type such as LA trading Jack Johnson for Jeff Carter. Hopefully as good as teams like Los Angeles, New York, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, etc are this year.
So if I understand the plan is to unload current veterans and then throw wads of cash at UFAs.

We've shown little ability in the past to land the high profile UFAs not sure why that would change now. Especially now that our free agent recruiter Scott Gomez has been bought out

Sorinth is offline  
Old
01-20-2013, 04:04 AM
  #44
ECWHSWI
P.K. is perfect.
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The Pittsburgh, Chicago, and Edmonton rebuilds were non-surgical.
doesnt change a thing...

NONE of their extra 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounders became regular NHLers...


and yet, you'll keep repeating: odds - more picks...

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
01-20-2013, 04:07 AM
  #45
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post

and yet, you'll keep repeating: odds - more picks...
I don't know if you're aware,

Timmins is the number 1 scout in the NHL.

He's the only thing this organization has which is number 1. Therefore, the way for us to win is to leverage out strength: trade Rivet for a 1st rounder more often than you trade a 1st rounder for Alex Tanguay.

Quote:
That post doc sure doesnt make you an expert in sports... if anything, had you put more thoughts into it you'd realise that "1 year surgical tank" is basically asking for the exception to happen.

the odds arent there. It's only on paper, you will not find a single case of "surgical tank" that worked in the NHL. Huh no, you can find one, thing is, it involves one of the best player in history (Lemieux)... good luck repeating that!
I'm not asking for an exception, I'm asking for a novelty. Your circular argument is simply that innovation is a bad idea because the idea has not been tried before. It's a weak non-argument.

BTW Pittsburgh was not a 1-year surgical tank. I'm pretty sure they drafted Jaromir Jagr at 4th overall a few years after Lemieux.

DAChampion is online now  
Old
01-20-2013, 04:13 AM
  #46
damacles1156
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 12,166
vCash: 500
Take it from a Kings fan, any rebuild your ownership decides to do.

Is going to be a painful process. I say 2005 was the year the Kings really started the rebuild.

Taylor kept his picks and selected Kopitar/Quick.

Then was fired, and the rest is history. But Kings fans had to watch a lot of Bad hockey till 09-10..

I hope the Habs don't have to wait that long. You guys deserve a good team.

damacles1156 is offline  
Old
01-20-2013, 04:14 AM
  #47
ECWHSWI
P.K. is perfect.
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I don't know if you're aware,

Timmins is the number 1 scout in the NHL.

He's the only thing this organization which is number 1. Therefore, the way for us to win is to leverage out strengths: trade Rivet for a 1st rounder more often than you trade a 1st rounder for Alex Tanguay.


I'm not asking for an exception, I'm asking for a novelty
. Your circular argument is simply that innovation is a bad idea because the idea has not been tried before. It's a weak non-argument.

BTW Pittsburgh was not a 1-year surgical tank. I'm pretty sure they drafted Jaromir Jagr at 4th overall a few years after Lemieux.
actually, you're right, you're asking for Habs management to do something and hope all the starts are aligned. So, true, you arent asking for the exception to happen, you're asking for a fantasy to become reality.


Nope, and I'm pretty sure in your field you hear people having "innovative ideas" and without even trying it out you know for a fact it will not work/happen. Well, the innovative 1 year surgical tank is just that.

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
01-20-2013, 04:16 AM
  #48
ECWHSWI
P.K. is perfect.
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Take it from a Kings fan, any rebuild your ownership decides to do.

Is going to be a painful process. I say 2005 was the year the Kings really started the rebuild.

Taylor kept his picks and selected Kopitar/Quick.

Then was fired, and the rest is history. But Kings fans had to watch a lot of Bad hockey till 09-10..

I hope the Habs don't have to wait that long. You guys deserve a good team.
2005 > Cup in 2012...

dont worry about the Habs fans hoping for such a thing to happen, they know for fact it can be done faster

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
01-20-2013, 04:20 AM
  #49
TheGoalJudge
Registered User
 
TheGoalJudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,993
vCash: 500
All I know is that the guys against tanking this year have a plan consisting of guys like Gionta, Cole, Markov, Bourque and Kaberle either finding time machines or suddenly learning how to play hockey and then retiring off into the sunset after winning us multiple cups...after leading us to a bottom 3 finish last year.

Their Plan B seems to be improving our team significantly without moving out our veterans which basically means we are exempt from the salary cap.

I also have learned that they would rather see out the contracts of these players instead of trading them for multiple draft picks and prospects and then simply signing someone of equal value in free agency.

TheGoalJudge is offline  
Old
01-20-2013, 04:21 AM
  #50
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
2005 > Cup in 2012...
Habs started going for 8th place in 1993-1994.

It hasn't worked out. We've simply become the new Maple Leafs.

DAChampion is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:36 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.