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Rangers @ Bruins | 1/19/13

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01-20-2013, 11:00 AM
  #326
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
I don't think any one is blaming Kreider or Hags. The team sucked as a whole. Kreider just especially blew chunks.

His lazy line change is what caused that second goal IMO. With his speed he needs to hustle back not go for the change.
The Bruins just flat out kicked the rangers ass last night. They looked faster tougher and more crisp while we didnt

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01-20-2013, 11:01 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by 4th Line Grinder View Post
Boyle has 33 assists in 272 career games, I'm sorry but this illustrates his lack of offensive vision and his skill set. He's a 4th line center, a good one. He's a good pker, knows his role, fits in great with the team and its identity. But the truth of the matter is he is not a 3rd line center.
I couldn't agree more. Kreider's skill set is wasted on that line, but he also does have to earn the top-6 minutes.

I was saying all off-season how Boyle shouldn't be the answer at 3C.

He also needs to be taken off any power play unit.

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01-20-2013, 11:05 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
I couldn't agree more. Kreider's skill set is wasted on that line, but he also does have to earn the top-6 minutes.

I was saying all off-season how Boyle shouldn't be the answer at 3C.

He also needs to be taken off any power play unit.
i agree he needs to earn it but you do need to give him some looks in the second line. Last year in the playoffs he did well with stepan and cally

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01-20-2013, 11:06 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by 4th Line Grinder View Post
Boyle has 33 assists in 272 career games, I'm sorry but this illustrates his lack of offensive vision and his skill set. He's a 4th line center, a good one. He's a good pker, knows his role, fits in great with the team and its identity. But the truth of the matter is he is not a 3rd line center.
Do you have any inkling of how this team plays and Torts' philosophy with the 3rd line? Our are you blinded by offensive numbers, that it doesnt matter? I'd really like to hear this from people who bash Boyle.

And, better yet, I'd like to know who you want lining up opposite of a Sidney Crosby out of Richards, Stepan, and (insert fictional non-Boyle 3rd line center here)?

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01-20-2013, 11:10 AM
  #330
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I thought Nash played really good for the rangers, looked great in that sweater too. Good to see him playing for a team that's actually going places

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01-20-2013, 11:10 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by leonardodm View Post
Hagelin forgot to take his Ritalin. Kid obviously has ADHD.

Nash played well. McD and MDZ too. Didn't like Staal or Callahan.

Bickel won his battle but Rupp lost his. Segal had some moments.

Forecheck gets the Redden.
And there you listed all who played in Europe this fall and winther,no?

Hags played in Sweden's second tier, for like 13 games and so, and have not played since November.
Nash is the only one with significant match up.

Of course the rest of the players are rusty.

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01-20-2013, 11:11 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
I couldn't agree more. Kreider's skill set is wasted on that line, but he also does have to earn the top-6 minutes.

I was saying all off-season how Boyle shouldn't be the answer at 3C.

He also needs to be taken off any power play unit.
I think Torts wants to have a big body in front of the net on the PP so Boyle is probably staying, but I agree that he really has no business being there.

We'll see how it goes and if the PP still sucks in 2 weeks as much as it did last night, then I can see Boyle getting either

a) thrown out of the whole PP scheme
b) elevated to the 1st unit to replace Callahan and to stand in front of the net while the others throw pucks to the net and hope Boyle deflects them in with his ass.

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01-20-2013, 11:14 AM
  #333
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Meh...could have been worse than it was . Not shocked at the play of Gabby and Stepan and DZ on the PP . King played well and the Rangers were picked on the 3rd goal which allowed the point shooter the time to get the shot away...should have been called but then again...refs are like the players...rusty .

We definitely looked bad on the 3-4 lines versus the speedy Bruins . Kelly-Paille are good role players versus our guys there . I suspect Sather will tinker as we move along . Rupp...just what I expected to be killed with short jabs and handled by Thornton...but he is our heavyweight LOL right !!! Bickel beat the little fellow...I like that from him...nutso kind of player even if he is poison on the blueline .

Hopefully we tighten it up for the Penguins . Looks like they have some speed but not as physical as the Bruins . Relax everybody...even if we lose again today . 2 games does not a season make .

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01-20-2013, 11:17 AM
  #334
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So now that I'm not a drunkard anymore (sorry about the chicken fingers last night, room service was slow, what can I say), they played awfully last night. While I'm always proud to support my team, I was embarrassed to be in an away team's arena, let alone Boston's, while my team is playing like such ****.

Hank played an outstanding game, however, I do blame him somewhat on the 1st goal for a juicy rebound right in the middle of the slot. 2nd goal, I don't even know what the **** happened. 3rd goal, I'm quick to blame Lundqvist on that, but correct me if it was tipped by the man in front.

Defense was way out of form except for McDonagh and DZ, and the only forwards that made an impact on the game were Callahan, Boyle, Pyatt, Richards, and Nash. Team was non-existent last night.

I cut them slack as it is the first game and there is plenty of rust and they need to get into game shape, as well as regain timing, etc... but it was Boston's first game too and they looked excellent.

That said, if we come out like that again tonight against Pittsburgh, we'll lose 8-0. I expect them to turn it around, though. This team always bounces back and I expect nothing different tonight. Even if we lose, I won't mind it as long as we play well.

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01-20-2013, 11:18 AM
  #335
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Every once and a while things will fall right for Boyle and he'll have a stretch where he gets some ugly goals and creates some offense. It happened in the beginning of the Ottawa series and for a stretch in the regular season last year or the year before, can't remember.

The majority of the time Boyle is a useful 4th line center who can kill penalties. Here is what the coaching staff needs to decide. What do we want our 3rd line to be? If we want it to be a shutdown defensive line, then Boyle should be centering it. If we want it to generate offense 5 on 5 then he should not be centering it. Boyle has limited hockey vision and that is being kind.

As for the powerplay. If torts wants someone in front of the net to screen the goalie and get some ugly goals, that person should be Cally.

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01-20-2013, 11:25 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by TomLaidlaw View Post
Every once and a while things will fall right for Boyle and he'll have a stretch where he gets some ugly goals and creates some offense. It happened in the beginning of the Ottawa series and for a stretch in the regular season last year or the year before, can't remember.

The majority of the time Boyle is a useful 4th line center who can kill penalties. Here is what the coaching staff needs to decide. What do we want our 3rd line to be? If we want it to be a shutdown defensive line, then Boyle should be centering it. If we want it to generate offense 5 on 5 then he should not be centering it. Boyle has limited hockey vision and that is being kind.

As for the powerplay. If torts wants someone in front of the net to screen the goalie and get some ugly goals, that person should be Cally.
That decision has been 100% made. Some center is going to have to take big minutes against some of the best centers in the league. I dont really want that to be Richards or Stepan. Boyle does a good job there, at the sacrifice of offense. You have to weigh that give and take. This anti-Boyle stance without explaining who the replacement is going to be and how they're going to stop people is just mindless.

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01-20-2013, 11:27 AM
  #337
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A couple of things;

-Hags, Staal and Gaborik a critized by many, but I did not see any thing from them that worried me long term.

We had a extremely tough G1 against Bos with like 8 new players on the ice, Boston had zero new guys.

-Boston has a ton of smaller energy players on the depth lines, we have giants.

Based on last night, I like their approach better...

-I've seen five guys from last night.

One thing that sticks out is that good offensive minded Ds creates alot of offense. They can open things up. We lack that.

-Stepan had a decent game. That was good to see.

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01-20-2013, 11:30 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
A couple of things;

-Hags, Staal and Gaborik a critized by many, but I did not see any thing from them that worried me long term.

We had a extremely tough G1 against Bos with like 8 new players on the ice, Boston had zero new guys.

-Boston has a ton of smaller energy players on the depth lines, we have giants.

Based on last night, I like their approach better...

-I've seen five guys from last night.

One thing that sticks out is that good offensive minded Ds creates alot of offense. They can open things up. We lack that.

-Stepan had a decent game. That was good to see.

Its only one game but i didnt see too many positives. Rust may be a factor hagelin needs to play better tonight otherwise put him on the 3rd line. gabby cant miss wide open shots like he did last night either

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01-20-2013, 11:37 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
That decision has been 100% made. Some center is going to have to take big minutes against some of the best centers in the league. I dont really want that to be Richards or Stepan. Boyle does a good job there, at the sacrifice of offense. You have to weigh that give and take. This anti-Boyle stance without explaining who the replacement is going to be and how they're going to stop people is just mindless.
If you are correct BRB and the Rangers are going to view that 3rd line as a defensive shutdown line then I'd probably slot Hagelin on the wing with Boyle and Pyatt. I think that threesome could cause problems for other teams with their cycling down low and keep the puck in the offensive zone. They probably wouldn't generate any offense off the cycling but at least it would be in the offensive zone.

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01-20-2013, 11:37 AM
  #340
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I love Boston's bottom six. Kelly, Peverley, Campbel, Paille are great at their roles. Thornton is actually decent I guess, but I never could stand him. I don't like our third line at all, but it's not because I don't think the players are GOOD enough to get third line minutes; it's because it's just a spare parts line. It has no cohesiveness (I'm not talking about chemistry because that we obviously have to wait for). What is it's purpose? If it's offense, having Boyle center it doesn't really work and Pyatt can't help to make up for it because he's got no vision or passing skill either. If it's defense having Kreider on it is pointless and Pyatt's not anything special in that department either. As for our fourth line, I have no problem with any of the guys on it individually, but it's old and slow and that hurts us. Campbell and Paille are small, fast, sandpaper guys and they make a ton happen for the Bruins. Like I said, no problem with Rupp or Halpern individually, but they are just far outclassed for their roles by guys like Campbell and Pyatt, IMO.

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01-20-2013, 11:40 AM
  #341
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Best thing about last night was nobody got a cheap overtime loss point.

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01-20-2013, 11:44 AM
  #342
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Best thing about last night was nobody got a cheap overtime loss point.
Considering that the season has 48 games to it, I'd take any points we can get.

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01-20-2013, 11:45 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Do you have any inkling of how this team plays and Torts' philosophy with the 3rd line? Our are you blinded by offensive numbers, that it doesnt matter? I'd really like to hear this from people who bash Boyle.

And, better yet, I'd like to know who you want lining up opposite of a Sidney Crosby out of Richards, Stepan, and (insert fictional non-Boyle 3rd line center here)?
Ok so that's great insert Kreider into a checking role wasting his potential. Since you're such a guru you should probably already know Hagelin should be on that line because of his speed and ability to pressure and disrupt. If you knew how to read I said I like Boyle but he's not a third line center. It's blatantly obvious.

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01-20-2013, 12:02 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by 4th Line Grinder View Post
Ok so that's great insert Kreider into a checking role wasting his potential. Since you're such a guru you should probably already know Hagelin should be on that line because of his speed and ability to pressure and disrupt. If you knew how to read I said I like Boyle but he's not a third line center. It's blatantly obvious.
Whatever happened to a player proving himself? Now we move guys up to the 1st line based on potential or ceiling?

I think Kreider deserves to be on the 1st line - but not because I think hes going to contribute to the offense right away, or really anything to do with him. But because I think Hagelin is a smarter player and would add ability to that 3rd line, which is clearly in a shutdown type of role. Which is clearly why Brian Boyle is the center. Thats more blatantly obvious than whatever you expect out of a 3rd line center, which you've yet to explain but Im sure revolves around SCRING GOALZ!

Who do you want to play 3rd line center? Why cant anyone answer that question? My assumption is its someone who scores more and opens up huge questions on the defensive side of the puck. Particularly regarding who plays big minutes against Crosby, Giroux, etc.

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01-20-2013, 12:02 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Do you have any inkling of how this team plays and Torts' philosophy with the 3rd line? Our are you blinded by offensive numbers, that it doesnt matter? I'd really like to hear this from people who bash Boyle.

And, better yet, I'd like to know who you want lining up opposite of a Sidney Crosby out of Richards, Stepan, and (insert fictional non-Boyle 3rd line center here)?
How many times do you need this explained to you? No one who thinks Boyle is better suited for the 4th line is bashing Boyle. No one who wants more of an offensive presence on the 3rd line is bashing Boyle. If you're going to have a discussion where you disagree with people, you might want to try harder to understand what they are saying first, and then try to dispute it. It's tiring.

Oh, and to answer your question about who. I'd like Jason Arnott. Daymond Langkow. Hell, I wanted Kyle Brodziak at the deadline last year. I'd even take Dominic Moore, who we can at least see which one of him or Boyle is more effective in that role in a particular game. I'd also take JT Miller, even if it's a little early. But then again, this has all been stated. You just don't pay attention.

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01-20-2013, 12:23 PM
  #346
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Another thing, on the 5 on 3 PP, the big problem was that -- despite the time out -- our players were completely gassed after like 30 seconds.

This was Richards first game in like 8 month's, after only a short camp. He and a few others really didn't have the legs in this game.

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01-20-2013, 12:30 PM
  #347
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How many times do you need this explained to you? No one who thinks Boyle is better suited for the 4th line is bashing Boyle. No one who wants more of an offensive presence on the 3rd line is bashing Boyle. If you're going to have a discussion where you disagree with people, you might want to try harder to understand what they are saying first, and then try to dispute it. It's tiring.

Oh, and to answer your question about who. I'd like Jason Arnott. Daymond Langkow. Hell, I wanted Kyle Brodziak at the deadline last year. I'd even take Dominic Moore, who we can at least see which one of him or Boyle is more effective in that role in a particular game. I'd also take JT Miller, even if it's a little early. But then again, this has all been stated. You just don't pay attention.
Its an insane complaint.

Fine, so you'd be happier if Boyle was a 4th liner in name only but still got more minutes than the other bottom 6 center on the roster? Because the rest of a tough Eastern Conference isnt going to be shrinking the ice-time of their top offensive players anytime soon.

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01-20-2013, 12:36 PM
  #348
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If I had to list the biggest concern last night, it would be the total ineptitude of Derek Stepan and Marian Gaborik.
Yeah, I know, but:

1. Boston was by far the best team in the league after scoring first,
2. Boston had a perfect record last season after leading after 2,
3. Boston had one new player yesterday,
4. every third player on our roster played their first regular season game for us,
5. lets call a spade a spade, Boston scored 3 on us last night and you can label them all as pretty lucky goals...
6. we hit a couple of posts...

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01-20-2013, 12:42 PM
  #349
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There are several reasons, the question is whether you agree with them or not.
There's really nothing to agree with. Maybe if the Rangers coaching staff stopped putting grinders with offensive talent in key offensive roles and started putting more talented players in there, we'd start seeing more results offensively. Skilled players are going to be inconsistent offensively. It happens, you have to deal with it. Not every player is Wayne Gretzky and will score 160+ points over 50 games.

But having a guy like Kreider who plays better with better talent around him in a top-6 role instead of a guy like Hagelin who just a mucker with a little skill and a lot of speed can help this team out. Callahan would also be a much better fit on the top line if you're looking for someone to dig out pucks and get to the gritty areas.

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Look Kreider has things he needs to work on no doubt about it but the kid can be useful especially when he plays with better linemates
That's what I'm saying though, Kreider should be in an offensive role to help out his game. Hagelin is not going to be a 20+ goal 50+ point scorer. I never agreed with putting him in the top-6.

The lines should look like...

Richards-Callahan-Nash (wings can switch sides if needed)
Stepan-Gaborik-Kreider (wings can switch sides if needed)
Boyle-Hagelin-Pyatt (you need Hagelin's speed with those two)
Halpern-Rupp-Asham

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01-20-2013, 12:43 PM
  #350
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Yeah, I know, but:

1. Boston was by far the best team in the league after scoring first,
2. Boston had a perfect record last season after leading after 2,
3. Boston had one new player yesterday,
4. every third player on our roster played their first regular season game for us,
5. lets call a spade a spade, Boston scored 3 on us last night and you can label them all as pretty lucky goals...
6. we hit a couple of posts...
In regards to the first couple points, it was probably even more important that the Rangers showed up to play last night.

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