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This team will not succeed as long as David Desharnais is a top 6 center.

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01-20-2013, 10:35 AM
  #26
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by CHamps View Post
Bare with me here.

I realize a lot of people are DD fans, and with just cause, I like the man and the player as well. However, I strongly feel that this team will not succeed as long as he is a top 6 center.

A center should be a force on the ice, someone who is strong on the dot, strong on the puck, strong on both ends of the ice on top of the obvious need for on-ice vision. Sure, Desharnais has very slick hands and great vision, but his presence is not going to intimidate anyone, ever. This is not a knock on the man, he is a tough little dude and could likely beat the crap out of me, but against other top NHL centers...it's almost laughable.

If Plekanec were a different type of player we might be able to get away with having DD as a top 6 center, but having those 2 be our 1-2 is a recipe for failure and maintenance of our 'soft' identity. A center often defines his line as the puck literally starts on their sticks (after whistles)

Plekanec-Eller should be solidified as our top 2. Sure, the Pacioretty-Desharnais-Cole combo looked very good last year, but they got soft minutes and only looked good in comparison to the rest of the team which looked like trash. That same trio looked horrible last night and is IMO bound for disaster. Keep Desharnais with MaxPac, but put him on the wing and stick Eller in the middle.

Cole-Plekanec-Gionta
MaxPac-Eller-Desharnais

something of that sort should be our top 6.

Discuss/debate David Desharnais as a top 6 center in this thread.


This might not be worth it's own thread but I did not know where else to vent about this, mods feel free to merge with something...or not
Phillie has the same problem with Giroux. He has good skills but he is built like 12 year old.

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01-20-2013, 10:36 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Neutrino View Post
Totally disagree, what need is a defense...
I don't know how anyone could disagree.

That line going against other teams top lines is going to get creamed.

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01-20-2013, 10:37 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Phillie has the same problem with Giroux. He has good skills but he is built like 12 year old.
You make exceptions for a player like Claude Giroux...David Desharnais? Not so much

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Galchenyuk must play center next year. Period. The longer we put off him learning as a NHL center, the more time it will take for this team to someday be a contender.

Really ****ing tired of being a shrimp team down the middle. We've gone from Koivu-Perreault/Gilmour to Koivu-Ribeiro to Koivu-Plekanec to Plekanec-Gomez to what we have now. Enough is enough.
This, exactly this. I've been a fan since 84 (born into a jersey basically) and I'm tired of not having a big top 6 center (seeing Damphousse hold the torch last night made me unjustifiably bitter about the fact he was our last true #1C).

To those saying Eller is not a second line center (yet) I agree, but he can become one, and Plekanec handles the 'playmaker from the middle' role excellently. Let's get some god damn size in the middle from our 2nd center, it's not like Desharnais can't use his vision from the wing.

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01-20-2013, 10:39 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Phillie has the same problem with Giroux. He has good skills but he is built like 12 year old.
Are you really comparing a superstar like Claude Giroux to David Desharnais?

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01-20-2013, 10:40 AM
  #30
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If Desharnais' last name was Deshadov he would be on waivers, or he would be traded.

Eller has the advantage in almost every respect that matters: size, skill, physicality, defensive zone and if anyone noticed last year it was Eller and Plekanec's getting the hard minutes giving our "super" line of DD Cole and Patches soft as butter minutes.

The center needs to play D, something DD doesn't have. Period. Play Eller, watch your team do better.

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01-20-2013, 10:41 AM
  #31
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We played 1 game.. with a new coach and a new system missing our #1 D. Can we please relax?
Says the member whose avatar is "No excuses."

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01-20-2013, 10:49 AM
  #32
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Huge DD fan but hard to defend his game last night. Made a couple strong plays, almost scored, was solid in the circle but besides that he was poor. Best on his line but poor.

However, this is ridiculous. DD will finish with a good amount of points and be a + player. He's not going to hurt this team.

However suggesting to promote Eller is just as crazy. He was not good last night either. White was our second best centre and that's scary.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Habiton View Post
If Desharnais' last name was Deshadov he would be on waivers, or he would be traded.

Eller has the advantage in almost every respect that matters: size, skill, physicality, defensive zone and if anyone noticed last year it was Eller and Plekanec's getting the hard minutes giving our "super" line of DD Cole and Patches soft as butter minutes.

The center needs to play D, something DD doesn't have. Period. Play Eller, watch your team do better.
Ridiculous. A 60-point player on waivers. Some of the crap said around here is so hilarious.

DD played solid defensively last night. Even stopped, IMO, a sure goal.

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01-20-2013, 10:52 AM
  #33
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maybe I should clarify, I don't necessarily think having Eller as a top 6 center will bring success (this year) but it will at least make us respectable. I just want to be a respectable team again, not a joke, not 'the smurfs', not Jacques Martin's 'playing not to lose' team, not a team that trades players mid game and explicitly tells a coach he will soon be replaced parceque il ne parle pas français, respectable.

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01-20-2013, 10:56 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHamps View Post
maybe I should clarify, I don't necessarily think having Eller as a top 6 center will bring success (this year) but it will at least make us respectable. I just want to be a respectable team again, not a joke, not 'the smurfs', not Jacques Martin's 'playing not to lose' team, not a team that trades players mid game and explicitly tells a coach he will soon be replaced parceque il ne parle pas français, respectable.
I don't think Eller makes us anymore respectable.

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01-20-2013, 10:56 AM
  #35
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He's a good third line center on a Stanley Cup winning team.

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01-20-2013, 11:00 AM
  #36
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Desharnais was the best player of our top 6 yesterday, so yeah, no.... I believe Desharnais will have a great career in the NHL.

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01-20-2013, 11:02 AM
  #37
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Of course this is true. The entire position of centre is a disaster on this team. Bergevin knows this thankfully.

Unfortunately the GaineyGoats era produced nothing in this area amd we are left with what we have today.

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01-20-2013, 11:02 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habiton View Post
If Desharnais' last name was Deshadov he would be on waivers, or he would be traded.

Eller has the advantage in almost every respect that matters: size, skill, physicality, defensive zone and if anyone noticed last year it was Eller and Plekanec's getting the hard minutes giving our "super" line of DD Cole and Patches soft as butter minutes.

The center needs to play D, something DD doesn't have. Period. Play Eller, watch your team do better.
Oh man plz, Desharnais is 10 times better than Eller. Eller will NEVER be a top 6 center.

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01-20-2013, 11:03 AM
  #39
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I agree with the OP but we don't have anything better right now. I'd like Eller to develop properly without pushing him into a 1st line role prematurely. DD has shown he can handle it, even if it's not an ideal situation having him down the middle. The only way you'll solve this problem is through the draft so until Eller or Galcheyuk are ready, we'll have Desharnais there for at least 2-3 years.

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01-20-2013, 11:04 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Captain Saku View Post
Oh man plz, Desharnais is 10 times better than Eller. Eller will NEVER be a top 6 center.
He's 23... a little early to write him off ever being a top 6 centre don't you think?

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01-20-2013, 11:04 AM
  #41
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Oh man plz, Desharnais is 10 times better than Eller. Eller will NEVER be a top 6 center.
And I'm Santa Claus.

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01-20-2013, 11:05 AM
  #42
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I look at our team going forward and on one hand I see great things, on the other though I'm not so sure.

I like the defensive prospects we have coming up Beaulieu, Tinordi and I feel like our blueline going forward will probably be in decent shape. Our forwards though? Do we have have anyone really to be excited about beyond Galchenyuk? LL might be okay but there's nobody there that can really carry the day.

I'm more worried about the future of our forwards than on defense.

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01-20-2013, 11:06 AM
  #43
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If we can fetch a first round pick out of a team for him, I'd say to go for it. Sayonara.

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01-20-2013, 11:10 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I look at our team going forward and on one hand I see great things, on the other though I'm not so sure.

I like the defensive prospects we have coming up Beaulieu, Tinordi and I feel like our blueline going forward will probably be in decent shape. Our forwards though? Do we have have anyone really to be excited about beyond Galchenyuk? LL might be okay but there's nobody there that can really carry the day.

I'm more worried about the future of our forwards than on defense.
The problem is the wings. The winger depth after Pacioretty is...not good.

If Galchenyuk develops the way we expect him to, I am more than comfortable with Eller-Galchenyuk and Plekanec down the middle. I would move Desharnais to wing in such a case. I think for the first time in a while, the habs centre position is not the problem of the team (only if Galchenyuk develops into what we expect). Long-term the defense is fine, but the wings don't looks so hot. The short-term problem of this team is the defense, if they would have a better defensive core, I think this year's team could easily squeeze into a playoff spot, but not with what we have.

Perhaps a Collberg, Gallagher, Kristo or Bozon surprise us?

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01-20-2013, 11:10 AM
  #45
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If we can fetch a first round pick out of a team for him, I'd say to go for it. Sayonara.
Maybe for someone who was a first round pick in 1990.

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01-20-2013, 11:10 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I look at our team going forward and on one hand I see great things, on the other though I'm not so sure.

I like the defensive prospects we have coming up Beaulieu, Tinordi and I feel like our blueline going forward will probably be in decent shape. Our forwards though? Do we have have anyone really to be excited about beyond Galchenyuk? LL might be okay but there's nobody there that can really carry the day.

I'm more worried about the future of our forwards than on defense.
Collberg? He won't be a superstar but he clearly has 30+ goal upside. Kristo is decent too.

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01-20-2013, 11:13 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Pine View Post
If we can fetch a first round pick out of a team for him, I'd say to go for it. Sayonara.
You are going to get good value for a guy like Plekanec. But I don't think Desharnais' value is that high. One thing is for sure: one of Plekanec and Desharnais won't start 2013-2014 at center. Because Chucky will be there and he wont be playing 3rd line time.

This team is rebuilding, like it or not. This half-season is just a large training camp so that management can see who's expendable. And who will be part of the 'big plan' Bergevin already has in mind. This is not a 'short term' plan a la Gauthier. Bergevin has said it himself multiple times. I don't expect this team to make the playoffs and I don't expect the same lineup for the duration of the season. Moves will be made so that the kids will be brought up. I see Tinordi probably finishing the season here. And I see Gallagher playing a bigger role come April.

You cannot finish practically last and thinking this lineup won't be changing. Needs a complete overhaul, but over time. Give it 2 seasons.

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01-20-2013, 11:14 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by HatTricK09 View Post
I personally am not sold on Desharnais either. I would like to see Eller step it up, but as of now, he's all that we've got.

But if Desharnais can keep on improving from last year and keep on playing like this, then I'm fine with him being our first or second line C.
There are other players in the league who has had the same kind of story; see St. Louis
Forget Eller, he's never going be anything but a third liner, just like mcquire said he would be.... that was a dumb move when they traded Halak for him. Could have gotten a lot more for Halak, his stock was very high at the time. Its price that should have been traded before his weakness was exposed , he will never be a superstar
goalie. Halak was the guy for the habs, he had the city and the team rockin by himself. Don't care how he's playing now and don't follow him , certain guys are
meant to play on certain teams, halak was meant to play in montreal.

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01-20-2013, 11:16 AM
  #49
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My problem isn't really with DD, my problem is I'm afraid that the good totals from last year are going to encourage MT to miscast DD. Context, context, context. I even heard the Hot Stove refer to DD as the number center and they even added "quite easily". When you look at point totals without knowing the context these are the type of conclusions people will come up with.

Having said that, DD can still be a valuable piece, but a top 6 center he is not. DD would be best served in a 3rd line exploitation role, facing other teams top lines is going to expose DD for what he is and be detrimental to the team as a whole. You would think that these hockey analysts/experts and coaches would have a better grasp of the game they follow day in and day out, but with the words spoken last night it is clear as day that they don't.

Those saying Eller will never be a top center are also fooled by the numbers. He is already more capable of playing a top 6 role against others teams top line than DD. There is no doubt that Eller will pass DD on the depth charts.

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01-20-2013, 11:20 AM
  #50
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There are far more attractive forwards in every draft than there are Dmen (although not all of them are as obvious as Galchenyuk). Even Houle occasionally found a decent one.

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